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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Frogeye bonnet hinge bolts

Does it matter which way the Frogeye bonnet hinge bolts are inserted? The Moss diagram suggests inserting from the nearside (passenger in UK). I wondered if there might be an access problem after the dash is fitted if they are the "wrong" way round.
Bill Bretherton

Doesn't your she'll have captive nuts on one side, Bill?
GuyW

Guy, no, there are no captive nuts but just holes in the hinge boxes. Something else they omitted it seems! Which side should the captive nuts be on? I have nyloc nuts for the bolts.
Bill Bretherton

The captive nuts are on the inside of the boxes. Mine has them but also has nylocs
Bob Beaumont

Bill

You can’t always rely on diagrams, as they aren’t necessarily accurate.

For instance, the diagram for the front suspension shows the inner fulcrum pins the wrong way round.

Dave O'Neill 2

Occasional errors aside, I love those workshop manual drawings. I always think of the draughting boards set out in ranks with the drawing technicians in shirts and ties, and maybe stripey sleeveless jerseys in winter, beavering away to produce all those detailed isometric perspectives. Then adding the fine shading and cross hatching, and highlights. No CAD drawing ever comes close in my eyes.
GuyW

Thanks Bob, I'll go with that then. Dave, yes I'm sure there are mistakes in diagrams. I'm aware of the fulcrum pin orientation but easy to get things wrong! Guy, you paint an evocative picture!
Bill Bretherton

What were those elasticated things called, that kept the shirtsleeves up so that the cuffs didn't touch the drawing board and make smudges?
Nick and Cherry Scoop

rubber bands?? (i'll get my coat)
Bob Beaumont

Dear me Nick, that's awoken old brain cells long thought dead!
As a child I remember my Dad wearing them and thinking they were pretty cool.
I think they're called sleeve holders or garters.
They looked like this IIRC.

Jeremy MkIII

'Sleeve garters'? Maybe in the States - in our part of the forest they were simply 'armbands'. However blow-up 'water wings' hadn't been invented then, so probably these days they would be 'shirt armbands':

https://www.marksandspencer.com/shirt-armbands/p/p22185534

I too thought my Dad looked cool wearing them, but was never tempted myself ... the 60s had arrived and everything was supposed to hang out! (Now sock garters never did look cool - even the 50s hadn't gone back to them. Except for debagged bank manager types in Ealing comedy films, of course.)

Returning to the topic (much as I hate to):

I am about to remove a restored frog bonnet from its restored shell - and don't want to lose the brilliant professional alignment. So I'm intending to take out the hingepin bolts as above. Are there any implications I haven't thought of for the build-up??
Tom Coulthard

Tom
Removing the Frogeye bonnet by taking out the hingepins both maintains alignment and reduces the process to a two man, rather than a three man, operation. There is less risc to paintwork on re-assembly although care must still be taken.
Alan
Alan Anstead

Alan
If you do it that way then how do you align the hinges on reassembly i.e. they need to be pushed up and jiggled a bit to align the holes and I don't see how you do that with the bonnet closed, which it would surely need to be?
Bill Bretherton

I wondered that too!
I can remove and refit my frogeye bonnet single handed, with the hinges already fitted to their pivot bolts. I heard that Alan recommended the alternative method so I tried it that way too, but I found it extremely difficult,if not impossible, to get the brackets aligned to get the bolts in. At least working on my own.

Having carefully aligned and adjusted the bonnet, I have drilled a couple of pilot holes to take a self tapper into each hinge bracket which should ensure it goes back in precisely the same position. Time will tell though!
GuyW

Used the hinge pin method on a friend's Frogeye after he told me that he always did it that way. With the two of us we guided the hinges into the recesses and then he disappeared under the dashboard to fit the pins. I may have had to move (jiggle) the bonnet a little to allow alignment of the pin but only a fraction and the process all seemed quite quick & easy.

For my own Frogeye the bonnet stays on even for engine removal.
I could never find helpers when requiring to remove or fit the bonnet and alignment was a 'bind' once the hinge bolts had been disturbed so many years ago I made a short engine crane that allows me to lift and remove the engine under the canopy of the bonnet. Over the years I have used it on many other Frogeyes when working on others cars some here may have seen me at the Practical Classics Show a couple of years back when I used it to fit a T9 gearbox into a Tifosi Rana Frogeye. The crane is easily dis-assembled for storage.
Alan Anstead

Grind tapers on the threaded ends of the hinge pin bolts then tap them in with a hammer. Works every time for me.
Simon Wood

I'm with Alan. I took the engine out of the frog last summer to deal with a gearbox problem and using short crane avoided removing the bonnet. If I have to remove it I remove the hinge pins. Never had a problem refitting them.

Bob Beaumont

Inspired by comments here, at the next opportunity I will have another go at the 'Alan's Method'. I found it extremely difficult before, but I think I may know the reason why!

Working alone, I fitted the bonnet in position with the front propped wide open (upturned broom wedged under the airbox). I could then reach in under the bonnet with one hand to try and lift the hinge bracket into alignment whilst I pushed the bolt through its housing behind the dash. I jiggled around like this for ages, unsuccesfully. Since others say the method is easy I suspect that my error was that with the bonnet propped as it was, the weight of the bonnet was dictating where the end of the bracket went. I had little hope of controlling or altering that with one hand.
GuyW

It ought to be called 'John's' method as it is how my Friend John does it.

Guy
The bonnet was at rest when the pins / bolts were inserted / removed.

Alan
Alan Anstead

Alan
I'm now also inspired to try it your (and John's and Bob's) way! Simon's suggestion also good.
Bill Bretherton

Yes, thanks Alan. I guessed that you fitted the bolts with the bonnet shut, though no one had actually said so. That was my mistake!
GuyW

Many thanks all - truly very helpful - even when people's experiences differ.

Like Guy, I was thinking of removing and refitting with the bonnet suspended half-open. But I was going to use a sling between the frogeyes attached to an engine crane (I have a 500Kg one which keeps its legs together enough to fit betweem the front wheels). This was to allow some jiggle-ability, but I see that the problem could well be getting the hinges far back enough to fit the hingepin.

At least, when closed, the bonnet would be resting at the back on the scuttle rubber strip and the sill blocks (when I get them fitted) so shouldn't risk the paint too much.

Thanks again
Tom Coulthard

And Simon - a 'cheeky taper' on the end of the bolts sounds a great idea - with a gentle tap from a BFH providing 'self-aligning' pins! ;-)
Tom Coulthard

I've found a little taper is also helpful on the floor to gearbox cross member bolts.
f pollock

Have now tried this method of fitting bonnet with hinges already attached and, after a good deal of jiggling, it worked and I was working alone. I didn't taper the bolts but lined the hinge holes up with a screwdriver first. The trouble is I'll have to take it off again now (probably more than once)......
Bill Bretherton

Well done Bill. Even with the jiggling its a lot easier than trying to fit the hinges to the bonnet.

Bob Beaumont

This thread was discussed between 19/01/2019 and 30/01/2019

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