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MG Midget and Sprite Technical Frogeye tyre sizes and brands BBS discussion at MG-Cars.info
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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Frogeye tyre sizes and brands
| I know a lot has been said about tyres, especially the technical stuff (don't refer my to the tyrebibles site, Nigel ;-). )
This time l am just after suggestions based on experience. Time has come to order tyres for my Frogproject. It will have a standard tune 1098 engine, A series box and 4.2 diff. I want it to retain the 1950's feel and don't intend to compete in the fast lane of the M-way. It will be for local trips, maybe the occasional holiday tour but following the back roads and byeways of the glorious northcountry. So, scene is set. I don't like oversized fat tyres on small classics so was thinking of 135/80 13 as a good size but see that prices are actually lower for the more common 145 and even 155 sections. Do we have any thoughts on this? |
| GuyW |
| And as for brand. I like a name that l recognise, but other than that have no idea where to start. There are some Uniroyal 'Rainexperts' which l remember people saying were good and there are really good prices for Firestone Multihawks which l noticed is the brand that Nick has gone for, but maybe a different version? I do like to see that name on a tyre - it just looks right for a 1960 car! |
| GuyW |
| Guy, I suspect that you may get as many differing recommendations as replies with this one, but I will start: By the sound of it your proposed usage sounds very similar to mine. I have Michelin E3 155/80/13 on my wire wheels. I have bog standard suspension although I do have a front anti-roll bar. To me they look about right and the car drives well on them in both the wet and dry. |
| Simon Wood |
| Personally I would go for 145 as I think they look right. As for brand I have Uniroyals and have suggested them before but the latest version has the wrong tread pattern for the classic look and I couldnt find any of the old pattern the last time I wanted one so ended up with a Barum which does not have the same grip level. I have been looking at the new Firestone for the modern but have not tried them yet. As an avid Firestone user back in the day I know what you mean about seeing that name on a classic even though its a very different company now.
Trev |
| T Mason |
| I looked at 135s, Guy, but they seemed to be few, and expensive. |
| Nick and Cherry Scoop |
| Guy..FWIW.. I'm now on my second set of 145 Firestones on the wires for my Midget. They seem fine for the way I drive my car nowadays [which is considerably different to how I did in 1975!] Dave |
| David Cox |
| David, and Nick. Are your directives the version called Multihawks? |
| GuyW |
| What are directives? My tyres are called MULTIHAWK 2. Going clockwise from there:- A8 E1 JDK 3217 Made in Indonesia DQ 65819-1 MLHK 2Z 145/80 R13 75T |
| Nick and Cherry Scoop |
| Yes Nick, those are the exact ones l liked the look of at £34.70 each. I thought it is not a bad price. (directives is what my kindle thinks is a better word than whatever l had typed, which l cannot now work out!) |
| GuyW |
| directives = firestones? |
| David Smith |
| Ah yes, of course! Why would an Amazon Kindle know anything about tyre brands! |
| GuyW |
| You chaps don't know how lucky you are. Try finding some 165/80x14s for an MGB by a known brand. I had to settle for 175/70 in the end, at around £70 per tyre. |
| Dave O'Neill 2 |
| Dave did you know Pirelli are making Cinturatos again? MGB ones from Longstones @ 40 quid each! https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/165-hr-14-pirelli-cinturato-ca67.html |
| David Smith |
| Guy,
unfortunately Tyre Bibles has gone commercial and most of the fantastic info gone. I'm on my second set of Michelin Energy (EB3 1) 145/80 r13, 75T and think they'd suit your requirements too. They're a narrow looking tyre even for 145 profile so look period, the 145 will also be a better fit to your 3.5" wheels than the 155. Road holding, dry and wet braking is good(ish), excellent compared with those Toyo 350 (which Colin didn't like either) but nowhere near as good as the Yokos you can't get. |
| Nigel Atkins |
| Dave, weren't roadsters on 155/80/14 anyway. |
| Nigel Atkins |
| Guy, as you know I can't take a better photo at the moment but I've tried to lighten this one I already had to show you the Michelin 145s. Bear in mind I have 5" wheels so the sidewall of the tyres may be more upright than on your wheels and I was probably running about 26psi (2 above DH). For those that care about such things you can also see tyre pattern. Email me if you want hi-res original to play with. 
|
| Nigel Atkins |
| Nigel The (early) handbook quotes 155 for Roadster and 165 for GT, in addition to 5.60-14, although the steel wheels were 4" and 5" respectively. Optional 4.5" wire wheels - like mine - were available on both. Later handbook just quotes 165 for both. |
| Dave O'Neill 2 |
| David That link shows the Pirellis at £162 each! Ouch! |
| Dave O'Neill 2 |
| And £102 a time for Sprite tyres. They may be the "only genuinely period tyres" but l am afraid that is to much for me. Firestone', l think at 3 for the price of 1 ! - Ok,l know l need at least 4! |
| GuyW |
| Dave, is the later Driver's Handbook with 165 for both roadster and GT for the later r/b cars? |
| Nigel Atkins |
| Guy, I'm running Continental Eco Contact 3. I'm very happy with them although they're 165/70 R13 size on 5.5 inch rims which have the same (almost) rolling circumference as the originals. I don't know if other sizes are available. |
| Peter Blockley |
| Dave O - apologies I scanned too fast and picked up on the set of 4 but with the single tyre price - DOH! |
| David Smith |
| Peter, thanks. I use 165/70/13s on my other car but that is a fairly "fast road" modified 1275 with a 5 speed box and a 3.9 dif. This is for a rather different sort of a car. I think 145s are about as wide as I want to go on standard 3 1/2" rims anyway |
| GuyW |
| With the Pirelli's although Longstone have bought the moulds to produce them again it would be interesting to know if they are being made to the original rubber compound or if something more modern is being used. Trev |
| T Mason |
| Also be interesting to know how they compare with a good quality modern tyre in actual road use, many (not all) B owners tend to dribble their classic down the roads rather than drive them as designed. Video stated that they were modern rubber compound designed to move water away better than originally. |
| Nigel Atkins |
| Nigel, thats interesting as I had not seen the video although I suspected that may be the case. So really you are paying a fortune compared to modern alternatives merely for the looks. Trev |
| T Mason |
| So you're not even getting the authentic driving experience! |
| Dave O'Neill 2 |
| Well there's more to tyres than just the compound types, the rest of the build materials, the overall design and design of tread pattern - but basically I'd guess the tyre at this price is all about aesthetics and, especially in this case with modern rubber compound, misplaced nostalgia.
Someone who used to drive Bs on theses tyres back in the day said it was the feel and ride of the car on these tyres that was so good but they didn't have modern tyres back then to compare them with. And Dave is right in his comment of course. |
| Nigel Atkins |
| I am having fun trying to find 145 80 13 tyres that are available to buy in the UK now which are eligible for sprints/hillclimbs as production car tyres on List 1A of the MSA Blue Book regs: https://www.msauk.org/assets/196-206permittedtyresl-1.pdf
Looks like its Contintental ContEcoContacf 3 or Uniroyal Rain Exoert 3 in this size. The former I can only find from Camskill mail order who will get these direct from Contental Germany as Continental UK have none in stock (the latter info also from local companies who also have said nothing in their regular suplying tyre wholesalers either) and one local place said that Uniroyal are saying available from 9 July 2018 but that could change. Continental or the Uniroyals - which are best for dry and wet grip and handling? And any of the other List 1A tyres available in 145 80 13? Colin and others competing - what tyres are you using? Guess I may be a weirdo not using 5" wide wheels and larger width tyres! Sticking with standard 3.5" Frogeye vented steel wheels - would love a set of the Gary Gaps wider ones. Cheers Mike |
| M Wood |
| Mike,
I still haven't decided on tyres for my Frogeye, but did find that most of the 145 tyres seem to be 70, not 80 profile. I haven't checked, but am pretty certain that 165/70 (as used on my 1275 car) gives a circumference very close to the original cross ply fitting. I presume therefore that the 70 profile in the 145 tyre is a significantly smaller overall circumference. Presumably why they are not permitted for hillclimbs? But for road use and given normal gearbox and standard diff ratio I would rather not go the wrong way with overall gearing by using the lower profile series tyres. Are the Continentals and Uniroyals the only ones you have found as 80 series tyres? |
| GuyW |
| Guy
I am using standard MkII Sprite 3.5" wide 13 inch wheels so 145 80 13 is the size to go for in terms what suits the vehicle. The competition regs in this respect for what will be a road legal car running in road car cars with limited mods allowed, limit what tyre makes and models are eligible. Unfortunately that seems to be only the Continental ContiEco Contact 3 and Uniroyal Rainmaster 3 are available in 145 80 13 size. See List 1A tyres ('Production Tyres Suitable for Competition') below: AVON CR 322 ZZ 5 ZT 5 ZV 7 BRIDGESTONE RE 070 Potenza RE040 Potenza RE050, RE050A Potenza RE070 Potenza RE050 RFT Potenza RE040 RFT Adrenalin RE002 Potenza RE070R Potenza RE050A RFT Potenza S007 Potenza S02-A Potenza S001 Potenza S001 RFT (1)Potenza S007 RFT CONTINENTAL ContiSportContact ContiEcoContact EP ContiSportContact 2 ContiPremiumContact ContiEcoContact 3 ContiSportContact 5 ContiPremiumContact 5 ContiEcoContact 5 ContiPremiumContact 2 ContiSportContact 3 ContiSportContact 5P ContiSportContact 6 ContiPremiumContact 6 COOPER CS2 Zeon CS Sport *Zeon CS8 (1)Only applicable where an OE fitting. Contact MSA Technical Department for verification. DUNLOP SP Sport 01 SP Sport 600 SP Sport Aquajet/CB73 *SP Sport Maxx SP Sport Maxx GT SP Sport Maxx RT *SP Sport Maxx TT *SP Sport Fastresponse FALKEN *FK-06, G *FK-452 FK-453 *FK-07E, U *SN-807 *SN-816 *SN-828 ZE 914 *ZIEX ZE912 SN-832 FK 510 FEDERAL *SS 595 ST-1 FIRESTONE Firehawk SZ 90u TZ 300u GT RADIAL Sport Active GOODYEAR *Eagle F1 Asymmetric Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2 *Efficient Grip KUMHO *Ecsta KU31 SPT *Ecowing ES01 *Ecsta HS51 Ecsta PS91 *Solus KH17 *Ecsta HM KH31 *Ecsta LE Sport KU39 MARSHAL *KR11 *KH35 *Matrac FX MU11 *Matrac XM KH35 *Matrac MH11 MICHELIN Pilot Sport (Excludes Pilot Sport Cup and all competition tyres) *Pilot Sport PS2 *Pilot Exalto PE2 *165 SR15 XZX (pre 1/10/90) *Primacy HP *Energy Saver + Pilot Sport 3 *Pilot Super Sport (1)Pilot Sport Cup 2 *Primacy 3 NANKANG NS2 (NSii) NS20 AS1 XR611 CX688 AS2 PIRELLI P Zero Nero *P Zero Rosso & Direzionale P Zero *Cinturato P1 *Cinturato P4 *Cinturato P6 *Cinturato P7 CA67 SEMPERIT Comfort Life 2 TOYO Proxes T1-R Proxes T1 Sport *Proxes C1S *330 *350 310 NanoEnergy 3 Proxes CF2 Proxes Sport UNIROYAL Rain Sport 3 Rain Expert 3 VREDESTEIN Sportrac 5 Ultra Vorti Vorti R YOKOHAMA A 008 (Excluding R) A 539 *AC 01 (C Drive) Advan Sport V103 Advan Neova AD07 AS 01 (S Drive) AC 02 (C Drive 2) Parada Spec-2 [PA01] Advan Sport V105 Blue Earth AE50 *Blue Earth AE01 Advan Fleva V701 https://www.msauk.org/assets/196-206permittedtyresl-1.pdf If I had 5" wheels I would be looking at 165 70 13 (if they could fit in under the square wheel arches); or 155 tyres on 4.5" wheels if I could locate a set of steels that weren't Rostyles (there was Dunlop made set?) Cheers Mike |
| M Wood |
| Hi
As a correction to the above, the steel wheels I was talking about are 5.5" wide Rubery Owen steel wheels (like wide Frogeye wheels) not banded but made that spec by the original maker of the standard Frogeye & MkII Sprite wheels (http://mg-cars.net/mg-midget-sprite-technical-bbs/what-alloy-wheels-are-available-2014030216470027923.htm) I have only heard of two sets, one on Gary's 'Gaps' car and a set for sale a few years ago by Tony (not sure of surname) from Halesowen. I daftly did not buy or even enquire after the latter as I did not know any better and thought they were banded widened standard wheels - doh! In terms of my success with thread revival on carbs, I wonder if said wheels are still available! The 4.5" wide wheels under 'News March 2018' - http://sebringsprite.com/latestnews.html - look tempting, but my budget won't go that far. Cheers Mike |
| M Wood |
| Mike, as well as Conti and Uniroyal Mytyres have Falken SN832. As for no stock in the UK I ordered my last Uniroyals from them and they came from Germany the next day. They seem to source from all over the place as the last Barums I had came from Scotland. I think they quote 3 to 5 days for delivery but I have never waited that long for them Trev |
| T Mason |
| Mike,
I have 165/70/13 on my 5.5" rims on my square arched 1275 and they fit OK - just! I say just because I have spread the inner wheel arch with a scissor jack. I also found that some brands clear the wheel arch whilst others do not - yet all quoting the same 165/70 size. It seems that some softer sidewalls bulge more than others! For the frogeye I was asking about tyres for road use - not competition, so the long list from the regs doesn't really help for my case. The issue is one of what is available in 145/80. 80% X 145 = 70% X 165 +/- 0.5cms = close to original equipment tyre circumference. Its just that 80 profile tyres in a 145 width seem rather scarce! Going to the more common 70 profile reduces the circumference by around 1.75" which is going the wrong way as regards engine revs for the same road progression. I was favouring the Firestones like Nick has, until I did the calculations, but it appears they are only available as 70 profile. Incidentally, when you get a non-repairable sidewall puncture, why is it always in an almost brand new tyre! |
| GuyW |
| Guy, you've forced me, tyre size calculators, two for choice, I like the first one - https://tiresize.com/tyre-size-calculator/ https://www.oponeo.co.uk/advice-and-tips/tyre-size-calculator (note no Tyre Bible) :) |
| Nigel Atkins |
| I don't understand. If mine are 70 profile, what does the '80' in their spec. mean? |
| Nick and Cherry Scoop |
| Hi guy I am using uniroyals on the frog. They work very well. Just finishing a trip to Switzerland on them. Currently 1200 miles and they grip well even in temperatures over 35C ! They replaced a set of Pirellis that had flat spotted. I got them from MyTyres and can,t complain. Bob |
| Bob Beaumont |
| Nick, yours are 80 profile. Not sure why Guy thinks they are not available as all the usual suppliers do them. Its a pity the new Firestone Roadhawk isnt available in that size as that looks like it could be a better tyre. Trev |
| T Mason |
| Nick, do you mean your 70 profile tyres have a load index of 80 (higher than needed for such a lightweight car), click on 'WHAT DOES MY LOAD INDEX CODE MEAN?' (or other links on this page - https://m.michelin.co.uk/learnShareDetail/tyreMarkings101 ETA: after Trev's post - your 80 profile tyres are 70 load index |
| Nigel Atkins |
| "My tyres are called MULTIHAWK 2. Going clockwise from there:- A8 E1 JDK 3217 Made in Indonesia DQ 65819-1 MLHK 2Z 145/80 R13 75T" I think Nick's load index is 75 |
| Dave O'Neill 2 |
| Sorry I missed Nick's earlier post, yes 75 load index and T speed rating (118mph for 10 minutes IIRC). |
| Nigel Atkins |
| A chap told me last weeek that '3217' means made in week 37 of 2017. Can this be true? |
| Nick and Cherry Scoop |
| No that's not true Nick,
3217 means week 32 of 2017. Why would it mean week 37 ? It raises a good point though. I very much favour Mytyres, Camskill, and Black circles for good prices. But I bought from another similar company once and the tyres came from Germany. Nothing wrong with that except they were already nearly 4 years old! Not good! I see that Mytyres say that their tyres are usually less than 12 months but may be up to a max of 24 months old. But you can see the point. Once tyres begin to get older no main dealer would accept them and their value will drop sharply so what may look like a bargain price may have a reason for it! Nick if yours are 80 profile Firestones I need to look harder! I could only find them as 70 profile tyres which isn't what I want. But I am sure you must be right. I need to search again. Especially as my wheels are now painted. Tick! |
| GuyW |
| As Guy says for week and year, a typo from Nick perhaps Guy. See 'OTHER SIDEWALL MARKINGS' and click on the 'TELL ME MORE' link just below it on this page - https://m.michelin.co.uk/learnShareDetail/tyreMarkings101 |
| Nigel Atkins |
| Guy, I agree, it is strange how punctures close to, or in, the sidewall happen to good tyres. My most recent experience of this, on my daily driver, was a puncture in the edge of the tread that was deemed too close to the sidewall for conventional repair. The tyre had done about 10 miles but it was 215/40 ZR 18 - not cheap to replace. Ray |
| Ray Rowsell |
| Mine is on one of the rear pair of Yokohamas on my '71 Sprite day car. Its done maybe 500 miles from new, looks almost unused. Garage says they cannot repair it as a repair wouldn't meet the BS standard and they would be liable. I can accept that they cannot do it but have wonderd if I could do it myself with a wire spire mushroom patch. It was a very "clean" pierced puncture from a pop rivet stem. |
| GuyW |
| Mike
I run 155/80/30 Toyo 350s on my 4 1/2" steel wheels. DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT THEM! I think they must have a very hard compound suited to heavier moderns than my 760Kg Sprite. They have very poor grip in the dry and absolutely none in the wet. Still, they gave us some good lessons in car control and we actually managed some quite respectable times. I've switched to Yokohama Blue Earth AEO1s which are on List 1A. But they 165/70/13s on 5" 'Minilites'. The compound is much softer, the grip is miles better and the times have improved too! I've had problems with them rubbing on the wing of my square wheel arches, partly because the rear has 1 1/2" lowering blocks. The closest to 145/80/13 that Yokohama do is 145/70/13 or 155/80/13: http://www.yokohama.co.uk/Tyres/Car-Tyres/Summer-Tyres/(product)/AE01 I have seen hillclimb Spridgets on Conti EcoContacts and the folk I've spoken to were very happy with them. I liked them when I ran them for many years on my Passat, but that's a rather different beast from the Sprite! I hope that's useful. Colin |
| C Mee |
| Please don't chance it Guy. I've attempted about 20 repairs in or near sidewalls and roughly half of them failed. I won't do it anymore. I speculate it's because of the flexing being so much more than on the tread. Our cars are tail-happy enough already; you don't need a rear blowout. Just my tuppence worth. Safety fast &c. |
| Greybeard |
This thread was discussed between 25/06/2018 and 01/07/2018
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