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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Front Shock Absorber - Opinons

The Sprite had just developed a knock on the front nearside front suspension, having jacked it up and given the front wheel a good shake, the top of the kingpin is moving.

I think,subject to full suspension strip, that the shock absorber has play in the bearing.

I guess I might have 4 options.

1) Rebuild the shock - never done this.

2) Buy a refurb from Moss, but back when I got refurb lever arch dampers from Ron Hopkinson's in Derby, they only refurbed the seal, not the bearing, so not keen on this route.

3) Buy new shocks from Moss or somewhere similar - I'm guessing these are made in China/India or similar, not OEM but does anybody know ?

4) Buy a Frontline kit.

I drive the car fairly quick, but so fast that I'm pushing the limits, even on the std suspension.

Malc
Malc Gilliver

Mark, there are so many possibilities in the front suspension it needs a really careful look and especially feel, to identify exactly what the problem is - as I am sure you will have found out! In my experience, the shock absorber bearings don't usually cause a problem. One step back though - check that the 3 bolts securing the shock absorber to the chassis are still good and tight.
Guy W

Thanks Guy,

Having found movement in the front suspension, the first thing I checked was each and every fastening.

Malc
Malc Gilliver

as Guy has put

you're quite right about refurb quality

I don't know about quality of new ones over here I think IIRC some in US are good and the refurbs but dampers are heavy to post

going to the other extreme I've got the F Lairs front suspension and with a slightly uprated ARB I think it is better that the original set up as I drive in a spirited fashion occasionally but do buy from somewhere that will give you a warranty like the big suppliers and if you're not fitting them have them fitted by a reliable company, which is not the originators
Nigel Atkins

Malc,

I got min rebuilt at stevsons in Birmingham , really good job im very pleased with them and the came recommended

cheers
Andy
Andy Sebring

Nigel,

I have seen comments, not just on here about FL, being a 'disappointment', but I can't seem to find any actual reasons. If you can, could you explain what issues you had with them ?

Andy,

Thanks for the Stevson info, I'm quite keen on getting original stuff rebuilt rather than just buying new (often susbstandard stuff).

Malc
Malc Gilliver

Regarding disappointment with FL:
remember that fitting a FL kit only replaces the damper, it does nothing to improve the lower suspension and fulcrum pin and king pin assembly, so the handling will be essentially the same as with a newly rebuilt lever arm damper

ideally, the FL arm would better resist bending under hard braking, than that found with the stock lever arm damper, but the benefit will be in degrees, rather than orders of magnitude


the best rebuilt dampers come from Worldwide Auto Parts in Wisconsin, USA

http://www.nosimport.com/

See how expensive it would be to have a set shipped over from there. Peter does an amazing job, and his dampers are easily better than new/OEM. I buy stuff from the UK and have it shipped to me in Michigan, USA all of the time, and it is usually not as much as I feared it would be, so I am curious if it goes as well in the other direction!


Norm
Norm Kerr

Malc,
the reasons (plural) I have put up before in other posts (not allowed to on other web forums for legal and mainly commercial reasons) but basically their front suspension kit is good (the designed 'borrowed from David Billington on here and the development on the rear copy from another poster on here, sorry I forget who now) so I think is worth buying

if you want more details of lies and poor workmanship then email me but it's not about the front suspension kit components, design or function

it's not flawless but it is good and could have been developed more
Nigel Atkins

Norm,
I think you might be over very overoptimistic about the quality of a 'refurbished' LA damper available over here

even if they were that good the (spit) kit holds firmer at the top under braking, very noticeably so and provides negative camber

all things being equal adding a ARB or slightly upgrading the existing is much more cost effective and then having better tyres than changing to the (spit) kit - but you'll still have that braking feel
Nigel Atkins

At the price they sell at the normal off the shelf UK "refurbished" ones cannot have had much more than a clean and a coat of paint! Specialists repairers may well be different of course and certainly the Peter Cadwell ones in the States have a very good reputation for being better than original.
Guy W

Just got back from bouncing the car up and down !!!

The drivers side of the car when bounced, just goes down and then back up - as expected.

The passenger side however keeps bouncing, somewhat mitgated by the slightly larger then standard ARB I have on the front, so the shock looks like it has hydraulically failed.

Further looking, when the wheel is shaken (while the tyre is on the floor) the lever and locknut on the shock actually moves away from the body of the shock, the movement isn't radial, it's axial !, where the drivers side shock doesn't do this.

EDIT FROM MY FIRST POST.

I drive the car fairly quick, but NOT so fast that I'm pushing the limits of the standard suspension
Malc Gilliver

General opinion is that the average rebuild is rubbish! I bought two new ones from Moss. Quality differed between the two units and finished up taking them both back for a swap (before I even fitted them).
Also I know of at least one instance where the arms came away.
The best rebuilds are thought to be from a chap in the States. His costs with postage work out more than new from Moss, mainly because the postage is so high returning exchange units isn't practible. I can find the link for you but I'm sure someone will come in before me.

Andy: didn't you go for those?
G Williams (Graeme)

Hi Malc - I'd go 4), with FL or other route if cost/manufacturing ability allow.

Norm says
"the handling will be essentially the same as with a newly rebuilt lever arm damper"

Not sure I agree with this - I can see where you're coming from but there are three points a triangulated (FL or otherwise) top link wins on:

1) the arm on the lever arm flexes under braking - if you brake hard enough you can feel the front suspension wind up. A properly triangulated top arm won't flex, or at least will reduce the flex.

2) related to 1), the flexing allows the kingpin to rock back and forward and wears the fulcrum pin out more - again a top arm helps here.

3) the damping is improved, as the triangulated top is usually fitted with a telescopic shock, allowing progressive damping and much better control.

People often argue point 3 being important, with the argument of telescopics are nearly always replacing worn levers and are therefore bound to be better, but my experience suggests that the telescopic shock is miles ahead of the lever arm in terms of handling predictability and feel.
Rob Armstrong

As Andy said, Stevson Motors do rebuild shocks properly.

They're not the cheapest, but they do more than just top up the oil and paint them.

http://www.stevsonmotors.co.uk/contactus.html

Probably best to 'phone, as the website doesn't seem to work too well. They are an 'old-fashioned' company, after all.
Dave O'Neill2

Graeme,

yes i did but i bought second hand from a racer and had to get them rebuilt , so i had the adjustable peter caldwell ones rebuilt by stevsons in birmingham.
During the rebuild there was a bigger problem with one than i thought and the guy at stevsons had to do quite a bit more , as someone just said above not the cheapest but they came back and are superb so i would recommend.

cheers
Andy
Andy Sebring

Malc,
it looks like you have your answer here and all the other stuff and posts for info
Nigel Atkins

Malc: Caldwell - that's the chap in the States!

Does sound as though there is a good UK alternative! It's the freight that makes the USA ones particularly expensive plus I suspect duty on top!
G Williams (Graeme)

Thanks for all the comments, I'm going to ring Stevson in the morning and get a price to have the lot, front an rear rebuilt dependant on what they say will decide which way I jump.
Malc Gilliver

Not sure where they are made but I think you will find that Moss bought the moulds from Armstrong to manufacture new units. I bought a pair from them and they work fine, but I did have to open one hole up on both of them (they tapered towards the middle so that the bolt would go in both ends but not go right through). If you buy from them its worth watching for their special offers as that can save a fair bit.

Trev
T Mason

Malc, my new Moss units (fitted last year) are not to original build quality. Mine have 8mm of up down play (i.e. No damping for 8mm) at the mid point of their travel. In other words they don't damp at this point which is unfortunately exactly where most of the damping is required. Go for the frontline or similar kit or build your own. HTH Rod PS yes you will have to drill out the mounting holes to make them fit
R W Bowers

THe Moss units have "Armstrong" cast into the body. I checked my new ones on the bench in-order to "work" them as Moss suggest. On one the arm moved under a load of about a kg, on the other I needed a scaffold bar to move it. Not knowing which was correct I took both back and they gave me two replacements (having tried to tell me the scaffold-operated one would improve in use) which were the same as each other but totally different to the previous ones. Mr Armstrong (if ever there was one) would be turning in his grave!
G Williams (Graeme)

How easy or difficult is it, to take a lever arm apart, and refurbish it yourself?

Has anyone here ever tried?
Lawrence Slater

Graeme

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Armstrong,_1st_Baron_Armstrong

Fascinating man and if you ever get the chance to visit Cragside, do go! A wonderland for the technically minded!
Matt1275Bucks

Just taken the LA dampers off and taken all four to Stevson Motors, he took them apart in front of me and reckons to the two fronts are original fit, whereas the two rears are reconditioned.

He is going to shim the wear out of the arm that 'clunks' then strip, clean, up-rate all dampers by 15%, hot and cold test them and I should be able to collect on Saturday, once they are back on the car I'll post my findings.

Malc
Malc Gilliver

I tried taking one to bits, and it took me and my dad (2 Armstrongs!) about half a day just to get the arm off the main shaft. What a nightmare. I guess this is one of the reasons why they don't get refurbed properly.

Oh, and Cragside is great.

Rob Armstrong

Got my LA dampers back from Stevson.

After his initial check he rang me up to tell the LH front LA top arm was coming out of the body and was close to total failure as a top arm.

He tells me it's a tapered spline inside the damper that holds the shaft that is bolted in to the arm and that was coming apart and had chewed it's self up.

All shocks were uprated by 15% at no extra cost and refitted by me today.

The car is smoother and rides better.

However, having seen inside the dampers and understood how they are built I will be fitting a Frontline front end, probably over the winter.
Malc Gilliver

I have Peter May top links - if you're concerned about the LA shock being the only top link, add them - really easy and make a great difference to the suspension, especially under braking.

Front damper top link here : http://www.petermayengineering.com/specialistProducts.htm
Philip Dodd

This thread was discussed between 16/07/2013 and 19/07/2013

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