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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Heritage shell - more help needed!

Looking for more advice please. Having rebuilt my Sprite windscreen frame, with new windscreen rubber and a new screen to body rubber - today was the time allocated to fit it to the shell......
Well, as with other jobs, it hasn't proved to be an easy fix. Whilst I have read everything I can find on the subject, even with the help of best mate Derek it did not go well. I used a MGOC supplied sealing rubber - which has the wrong profile as regards the oval hole, which seems to be at 90 degrees different to,the original, and therefore almost impossible to compress. I used ratchet straps to pull,the frame corners into a position to locate the top set screws, and after a battle (and three knackered straps), finally located them. No way could I bring the bottom bolt holes into view. I realise that the screen now needs to be tilted forwards, but also DOWNWARDS.
Any suggestions please - I'm sure those who,have built on a Heritage shell must have overcome this problem! John.
J M Hutton

Did you use the ratchet straps hooked under the door hinge to pull the screen down as per the method I originated? The alignment of the ratchet strap achieved by using the hinges makes sure that the pull is directly down the length of the screen side pieces as you can see in the photo. I put the bottom bolts in first, then the upper set screws. The reason being that once the lower bolts are in then tilting the screen forwards slightly at the top levers down and compresses the seal across the full width of the scuttle and the set screw holes come into line.

Using straps, mine all went together pretty easily - and I have done this more than once. But I admit, never on a heritage shell. Maybe the bolt holes on your shell are inaccurately positioned?

Guy W

Hi Guy - it was exactly your method I employed! However, the only holes to come into view were the top ones - hence I thought I would secure those first. My thinking was that once they were in, as the bottom holes are (out of sight) forward of the body slots, I would be able to then tilt the screen forward and locate the bottom holes.
It's the darn rubber seal that is stopping the job. Crap quality as seems to be the norm with rubber items.
The ratchet straps I used were not expensive, maybe I need to try better quality ones. Any other suggestions please! John.
J M Hutton

Heat from a hairdryer on the rubber? Copious amounts of soapy water to alow the seal/screen to move/compress? Never done the job with a new seal but those two options sometimes help with rubbers.

Good luck!
john payne

Can't comment on the latest seals as I built mine quite a few years ago, but I previously had a problem with a boot seal on a B - ended up with a different seal from an alternative supplier and it sat O.K.

When fitting it is very important that the outside portion of the seal is worked outwards as the screen is pulled down - I used a plastic mixing 'thing' from a body filler kit and soapy water as noted.
To pull it down I used a steel 'podger' - a pointed steel bar and levered it down by placing it in the body hole and levering into the windscreen frame to pull it down - it was tight. I had another person 'ballasting' the screen down as well.


R.
richard boobier

Thanks for that John, perhaps working in a cool garage (aided by a Superser heater) with only candles for light... Only joking! Your suggestion is certainly worth a try. Do I ask H.I.D's, or sneak out with it!
Even the replacement screen pillar bottom rubbers are very much different to the originals, so I have introduced them to a Stanley knife and reshaped them.
Will post how I get on. John.
J M Hutton

Thanks Richard. As I could only get the top (tapped) hole into partial view, I did not want to use a podger for fear of damaging the threads. If I can get any part of the bottom plain hole into view however, I will use your suggestion. John.
J M Hutton

Just another thought - wand not one you would want to hear as frankly won't make difficult screen fitting any easier - there are usually packing shims on one or both sides to take up any difference between in width between the screen legs and the body scuttle, and to accurately centre the screen. I am not sure what happens if they are omitted - but imagine there might be a risk of cracking the glass.
Guy W

Hi Guy. Yes, the original shell had three shims, one right, two left. The new shell requires two left and I would say at least two right!. So I have placed these in position held by the top set screw at the moment. John.
J M Hutton

I have just fitted my refurbished windscreen to a new shell (I believe I have a original new shell not a heritage one) I used a podger in the bottom hole to line up the top hole so that the threads would not get damaged.

It was relatively easy to get the holes lined up but I too could not get the rubber to squash down as I would like.

I also used the ratchet method to see if I could get the screen down further but it made little difference to the compression of the rubber - it is slightly compressed but not along the whole length.

My seal was from Moss Europe which like the MGOC is not as the original.

I have left my screen bolted up at the moment which should put the seal under pressure and then I will see if I can squash it down some more.

I must admit I wasn't to keen on the ratchet strap method as it was putting one hell of a load on the bottom hinge and I also felt that the angle of force was not acting in the right direction.
Martyn Wilks

Martyn,
if you fix the ratchet strap to the top hinge (as in my photo) you will see that the line of the strap is exactly right for pulling down along the axis of the side screen pillars. If its on the bottom hinge it will be too far back and the strap will try and tilt the screen rearwards, lessening the pressure on the scuttle rubber.

Once the bolts are located, then it is critical to push the screen forwards at the top, using the door quarterlight to get the screen rake correct before tightening the bolts up. Because the screen base is curved forwards in the middle, tilting the screen forwards increases the pressure on the scuttle rubber. That's what you want at this stage, but not unless you have the fixing bolts in first to act as a fulcrum. If the screen is too upright to start with then the contact pressure on the scuttle is too high and the pillars won't reach down the A posts far enough to get the fixing bolts in. So its a 2 or 3 stage process.
Guy W

John,
I used the same method as Richard and we took in turns to be the ballast! It may well be the seal is the culprit and may be worth checking against one from another supplier as the holes were both fairly easily accessed on the shell.
Jeremy Tickle

Thanks to Martyn, Guy and Jeremy. I did use the top hinge for the ratchet strap, ballast on top of the screen (mate Derek), but have yet to even see the bottom bolt holes - I could get the top threaded ones in partial view, and eventually was able to place the set screws in them.
Going to let it settle for a day, and try John's idea of some heat on the rubber.
Oh Guy, meant to ask - did you ratchet strap one side at a time, or both together? I did both together - is that where I've gone wrong? John.
J M Hutton

Thanks Guy I did need to push the screen forward to ensure it lined up with the quarter light although I am fitting one piece windows that are fixed but they will have sliders for ventilation.

My frame is also polished and then nickel plated so I needed to be extra careful with the ratchet straps as the are perilously close to the frame.

The rubber seal has compressed about 60% of it length the main area where it is not sitting properly is by the frame uprights and my thought are that the rubber pieces under the frame are part of the issue.

By the way the podger I used was fairly large and I could get a useful amount of leverage on it, once I had the top bolts in the bottom ones were a doddle.
Martyn Wilks

Martyn, I compared the new 'pillar' rubbers with the originals ( from 1965), and I couldn't believe the difference. Yes, they were both rubber. That's about the only thing they had in common. Even then, the old rubber was so much more supple. However the 'veins' or ridged areas on the new ones were very much more pronounced - so I have cut them down. This helped quite a lot in locating the set screw holes. John.
J M Hutton

Sorry, re-reading my messages they sound cocky as if l think l know what l am talking about! Not meant to !! I have done this job on 2:cars of mine, and one of those was twice over, without too much difficulty but l may have just been lucky. Probably pulled down one side at a time with the straps but left all bolts slack until they were all in.
Guy W

Guy, I'm most grateful for your advice as I have not done this job before. Thanks so far, John.
J M Hutton

As Victor would say 'I don't believe it' - and yes the screen and frame are now fitted!!
Looking at it this morning, I decided to remove the assembly and re fit the original 1965 pillar seals. Guess what, the bottom bolt holes lined up, and with a bit of jiggling, so did the top set screw holes. So,the problem was with the repro windscreen pillar to body seals, which are a) not pliable enough, and b) too bl..dy thick!
Using Guys method of ratchet straps could only help so far, in fact when the screen assembly was off again, I had used enough pressure to crack the paint at the edge of the scuttle apertures (for the screen plllars).
Just why do we have to put up with inferior rubber items? Oh well, onto the next job, smile on face!😱 John.
J M Hutton

This thread was discussed between 17/02/2016 and 19/02/2016

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