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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Play in steering rack

Hi,
I checked over my front suspension yesterday to make sure everything was ok following a rebuild a few weeks ago and noticed some play in the hub. I tracked it down to vertical play in the rod that connects the track rod end to the steering rack at the rack end (inside the gaiter).
I guess the rack is due for a rebuild/replacement.
How difficult is it to rebuild a rack and are the parts readily available in the UK?
If I replace the rack, there seems to be a big difference in prices. The MG Owners club want £70 for a reconditioned rack. Moss and others want around £140 and I have seen some priced around £350.

Is there any risk with a reconditioned rack? Or should I go for a new one?

Thanks

Dave

It is a 1971, 1275, RWA. I think it is the Triumph rack.
Dave Brown

Oohhhwww.... lucky you dave !


1st make sure its the rack and hope its not.

Rebuilding these are not a fun job. Ive been there and done that ... its not as bad as replacing a window regualtor. But id rather clean and polish the inside my sewer pipe before I do this project agian

Your rack is a 71, ... thats a question mark, that was the year that the change over occured ... look at rhe rubber gaitor if the big end of the gaitor is the same size for both sides of the car... its an early rack, if the big end of the gaitors are both differsnt sizes... meaning the gaitors are handed specifical go on one side of the car and not the other its a triumph rack.

The problem with buying a rack and the reason for the price differsnce is ... what was done to rebuild it and do you trust the persons skills that rebuilt it, ... for the cheap price it could have came off a breakers car, washed, spray painted and sold as lightly used and ( refurbashed ) .... if its from a recognised mg trustworth shop and costing $350... then id say it probably is a fully reconditioned rebuilt rack


As to rebuilding the rack... I cant offer anything on the triumph but the early rack is a tough job, its time consuming to remove, the the acorn cap and ball system is a complete bear to break a part, I took mine to a machine shop and paid them $50 to break apart, and it took them using a huge specialty C shaped wrench on a 3 foot breaker bar and oxy/acytlene welder and about 45 minutes... and that was after I spent a week and ever tool I could find to break it free

And it involves tearing lots of the suspention free...

The problem with that much work involved and if nothing has been repaired in thst area in a long time, or hasnt been maintianed meticulously... then your probably dealing with just the tip of the ice burg, as once your in, your in all the way, and probably have to fix alot of other isssues once your there.

The next time I rebuild my rack... im going to fid a good rack on ebay or from a local club member that had a good spare... then ill do a complete rebuild of that rack, then do the tear out of the old rack on the car and replace the rack with my newly rebuilt rack and toss my old rack in the spares box

The advantage... you can take your time to rebuild it to perfection and no guessing as to what it might need only find out differsntly and making lots of differsnt orders ... with expensive DHL delivery cost each time the driver has to show up on your door step.

Hope fully that was helpful... sorry for writing a book, but thats my personal experiance

Prop





Prop and the Blackhole Midget

If you have an old type of rack, the morris minor rack is identical and has a lower price than the exclusive AH or MG...
Flip
Flip Brühl

Its now 15 years since I rebuilt my Midget, but at the time I bought a reconditioned rack from the MGOC, the first one had obviously been in a crash, as the track rod arms were bent. They replaced this, but the second was missing the small rod that locks the upper bush, and stops it from turning, I was not very impressed with this, as the bush could turn against the circlip, and I thought in time might cause it to pop out, so I made a rod from silver steel and tapped it into place.

If its the later rack, then the inner ball joints are shimmed, and it may just be a case of adjusting the shims.
There is an old aviation saying, " if you think safety is expensive try having an accident"

Dave
Dave Barrow

Flip,

IIRC a RHD spridget uses a LHD Morris Minor rack as the rack is behind the axle on the Morris Minor.
David Billington

Dave
If you give us the chassis number, we can tell you which rack it should be.
Dave Barrow

Hi Dave,
The Chassis number is GAN5123618G.
I am now leaning towards a new rack.

I like the quote - "if you think safety is expensive try having an accident"

Best do it right first time and only pay once.

Dave
Dave Brown

Dave,

Maybe best to do some more research as not all new parts are very good and to the OE standards. A guy near me sells new MM racks for not a lot http://www.morrisminorspareparts.com/steering , I'll see if I can contact him and get the low down on quality. From pictures I've seen they did look a bit different to the originals. Some years back I got a recon rack and wasn't happy so ended up rebuilding my own from the best parts of 2 racks and had some mods made so the main pinion bearing surfaces were replaceable and a pinion oil seal. The biggest issue with the original recon was the pinion had obviously been badly rusted at some point from all the pitting evident but was used anyway, the rack though appeared to be new so all the best bits were used to build a good one. I think these days I would likely go with a rebuild from a reputable company unless you know the new item is good. have a look in the archive as this has been asked before and one company came up regularly as recommended for quality rebuilds.
David Billington

Dave,
Before ordering a new rack just check. Is the lateral play at the inner end of the tie rods the same for both sides? If not, and if it is significantly worse at the driver's side, then check that the large dome-shaped nut in the front side of the rack tube is still tight. If this has loosened off at all it allows the rack itself too much lateral slack inside the rack tube and the tie rod inner end would appear loose. Relatively unlikely, but do check.

Check also that the two rack clamps are tight, although from your description I don't think the rack itself is loose.
Guy W

Kiley Clinton are highly recommended for reconditioning racks.

http://www.steering-racks.co.uk/
Dave O'Neill 2

I may need a replacement or rebuilt rack next year (mine was an MOT advisory last time), so I'll be interested to see how this thread pans out. I searched the archives and there are several threads that follow a similar pattern to this one and end up with somebody suggesting Kiley Clinton and the original poster saying "I'll try one of theirs" - and then nothing more. Has anyone on here tried one of their racks and now got any feedback about it (either positive or negative)?
Jonathan Severn

I did have a rack rebuilt by them.
They were recommended by a friend who was a mechanic.
Dave O'Neill 2

I used an exchange unit from Brown & Gammons @ Baldock. last year - its been fine. They are local to me so didn't have to faff around with couriers etc. The exchange unit was around £80

Jim
J Smith

For £139.72 NEW, inc vat but plus postage from Sussex, isn't a new one better value than a recon?

I was VERY impressed with the new vertical flow rad I bought from them. Is a new rack likely to be crap, even though no OEM?

Has anyone here reported bed NEW racks? I don't remember anyone doing that.
Lawrence Slater

New doesn't always mean good!
Dave O'Neill 2

True, but does anyone know they are bad?
Lawrence Slater

When you out it like that Lawrence, it is a no brainer.

Dave
Dave Brown

If its truely new and not made in china...id be a fan, if its reconditioned to be LIKE new... id have suspicions

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Dave
Your car should have the later Triumph based rack. These are adjustable by shims at the inner ball joints. Just ignore the Haines manual where it says to remove the springs where plastic seats are used. (don't ask how I know).

Dave
Dave Barrow

I have a new one waiting to go in a late CB car, and it looks very good indeed. I don't know why anyone would go for a recon unit when the new ones are so cheap
dominic clancy

Dave Barrow thank you for the comment about Haynes. I read it several times and wondered about it. The reason I was interested was I have this coming up this winter on my rack (Triumph) so your experience is valuable to me.

Cheers.
Greybeard

Greybeard

Both my Haines manual and the Unipart manual say to remove the springs, so being a dutiful book reader I did so, and the car was almost impossible to drive, as the steering effort was moving the rack in its mountings.
I took the car to Kent classic cars, and they said this was totally wrong, they put the springs back in, and its been perfect since.

Dave
Dave Barrow

Thanks again Dave.

I have amended the manual. Knowledge is Power!

I truly love this bbs - I have learned so much from all you electronic ghosts on my tablet!
Greybeard

I just remembered on my early rack I used a dime as a shim inside the acorn ball joints in ored to remove the slack... it works well
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

I FOUND IT, I FOUND IT !!!

Here is a step by step detailed rebuild tech session from chicago land MG on rebuilding the early the rack up thur 1971...

Granted the tech session is for an MGA, but the MGA rack is an exact copy of the midget rack but just bigger, and carry the exact same issues tools and procedures for rebuilding


This was a bear to find, this was a great help when I rebuilt my rack for my 71 midget

Prop
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/steering/sr201.htm
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

I can't play in my steering rack. It's too small :-
Lawrence Slater

Here's a pic of the late rack when I added shims to remove a bit of slack from the inner ball joint. I don't know why, but I just happened to have some of the shims I needed, sitting in a box of large washers.

I must have kept them from another car from my past, becauase until this, I'd never had a late Midget rack apart before.

Unfortunately I don't have a pic of the acorn as Prop calls it. So this is just to wet your whistle. ;).

Lawrence Slater

I spoke to the guy I mentioned earlier in the thread about the new Morris Minor racks he sells and he said they seemed very good, apparently made by or for Moss Europe. He has sold about 60 this year and had no complaints apparently. Hopefully they are the same as those in the spridget or the spridget new racks are made to the same standard.
David Billington

This thread was discussed between 05/12/2015 and 09/12/2015

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