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MG Midget and Sprite Technical Restoration of an MG Midget Volume 2 BBS discussion at MG-Cars.info
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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Restoration of an MG Midget Volume 2
| Hi guys, This is the continuation of restoration of an MG Midget. Done a bit more on the Nearside (left for all our American friends) Repaired the nearside wing. Trial fitted to the car to set the gaps on the A post and front valance. Still a bit to do but getting there. Twisted the door so that it looks Ok. Although a bit of work needed to sort the gap out at the bottom. 
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| Yojic |
Forgot to mention, fabricated a new flange for the wing to attach to the valance.
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| Yojic |
sorting out the wing to valance with a bit of filler.
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| Yojic |
Filled the A post to match the gap on the other side. But first will complete the wing / valance tomorrow.
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| Yojic |
The door lines up ok now with the advice given and the bit of wood
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| Yojic |
| You know you're supposed to rub down the filler Dave ;-) Great work! |
| Bill Bretherton |
| Do a bit more today, the valence/wing needs to be tidied up a bit. Sorted the door out gaps are not too bad now had to repair the door and add a slither of steel on the bottom. 
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| Yojic |
Repair to door
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| Yojic |
Door gaps not too bad, acceptable.
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| Yojic |
Just need to sort out the B post and wing repair section withe filler.
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| Yojic |
| You door gaps look good to me Dave. |
| Bill Bretherton |
| Think you're being hard on yourself, those gaps look pretty damn good especially between the wing and A pillar and door and rear wing. |
| Jeremy MkIII |
| Looking good. Check to see if the bottom corner of the door sticks out with the door seals fitted. One of my doors was perfect until I fitted the door seal and now it sticks out a touch. |
| Chris Madge |
| Will do Chris, thanks |
| Yojic |
| Just a little filler needed on the front valance to make good. Completed the repair section wing to B post. Closed the front sill and welded a plate to stop the road crud building up. 
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| Yojic |
Oh dear, started on the rear inner wing (front section) Found a hole, so investigated, well this is what happened 😱😂 took the worst out as you can see. Now in the process of rebuilding that area, what a pig of a job, but it has to be done.
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| Yojic |
Oops 🤬😂
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| Yojic |
Oh 💩🙈
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| Yojic |
| Could do with a small cutter such as a dremel 🧐 oops photos not quite in order, I am sure you guys can follow though. Thats it for today, another go tomorrow. Then another oil tank to fabricate. 
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| Yojic |
| They really are rust traps in these confined areas aren't they! It seemed to me that some shells rust right through in quite restricted places, leaving completely sound fresh steel immediately adjacent. Whilst on others the rust seems to spread lightly over quite extensive surfaces without penetrating too deeply. I dont know if its different paint treatment or maybe variations in the quality of the steel but I have noticed it on other cars of the era as well. |
| GuyW |
| The more you look the more you find 😂 Still when it is done it should last another 40 years if there is any petrol 🤷🏻♂️ Mind you there will be better corrosion treatment than it had when first manufactured. |
| Yojic |
That was a sod to do but almost completed welding on the rear nearside inner wing. Just need to box the wing and inner sill area
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| Yojic |
| Repair to do on the floor pan where the seat is bolted. Do that in the morning. Stated to cut out the nearside floor same as the other side. 
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| Yojic |
| Hi guys, decided to plate the area marked in photo where the sill meets the wing and the inner wheel arch. This is to stop all the road crud building up. Finished the welding of the nearside boot floor in the wing area, chasing holes again 🙄 but managed. 
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| Yojic |
Thats the floor completed welding.
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| Yojic |
| Now for the inner wheel arch. Needed to repair the rear wing under the light cluster, to get some sort of shape I used a vice and a ball pain hammer 😂 made a cut in the repair section to fold it into some sort of shape. A bit of filler will sort it. 
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| Yojic |
The bit I was dreading, the boot floor to rear valance. It has a sweeping curve so I decided to repair the valance piece meal say 200mm at a time. So here goes. As you can see, the flange is shot. So I am going to cut out where the down sweep is on the boot floor, I must remember to attach the clips for the wiring (rear lights etc.) just a bit of plate cut into a small strip and welded on. Think there is four to do.
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| Yojic |
Cut the rotten part of the rear valance out first.
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| Yojic |
| Now for the folded sections of the boot to valance, as said this will be cut into 200mm sections to get the sweeping contour of the boot/valance. That is all for today. 
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| Yojic |
| Getting there, welded a couple of plates where the sill meets the wheel arch and boxed in, both sides, will use filler to smooth off. |
| Yojic |
Completed the boot floor save for the cable clips, cracked on with the rear valance.
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| Yojic |
Oops wrong order 😂
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| Yojic |
| Should have been before the welded one 🙄 The shell is now all welded (Well I hope that is all on the welding front) Now the tidying up, filling and sanding to make ready for primer. YES at last. 
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| Yojic |
| Those rear wings are usually double skinned, below the level of the floor with a sort of web panel that drops down from the floor. It may just be the photo, but it looks like you have extended the floor right out to meet the outer rear wing? The normal thing is a real rust trap, so if that is what you have done it should be an improvement.
I don't know why they designed it that way to start with. The only ( marginal) benefit is it avoids having a line of weld part way down an external body panel where it might cause distortion. |
| GuyW |
Guy, my original was not double skinned, what they had done was silicone the gap between the boot floor and wing one side the other side had a plastic hose and silicone. Therefore in the photos I have extended the floor with a small gap to the wing. This will then be sealed not with welding though 😂 seam sealer or something like that. At the time I was unaware that this area of wing is double skinned?
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| Yojic |
| David, I thought they were all double skinned there, but perhaps the later cars weren't. Someone will confirm. Either way, yours looks better! |
| GuyW |
| It it double skinned there. same as a frogeye. Moss shows the part as boot floor extension. I agree its an ideal rust trap but does give more rigidity to the lower rear wing. |
| Bob Beaumont |
| Double skin boot floor extension/rear lower quarters. Mascot magazine. April 2020. Issue 433. Page 23. |
| anamnesis |
| There must have been a reason to design it that way, but the fact they are so prone to rusting there suggests the design is probably floored or just crap metal or manufacture. I'll be using plenty of seem sealer and filler around this area! 
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| James Paul |
| MY guess is either for simplicity in spot welding or for strength - or both. |
| Chris at Octarine Services |
| I am guessing but the original round arch of the Frogeye wing would need support. To avoid a set of welds along the middle of the wing around the boot floor, the boot floor is extended to the lower part of the arch and welded to the return of the outer wing. This was just then copied over to the spridget.
When I rebuilt the frogeye I retained the original design but drilled holes in the inner wing at the bottom to let the water out as well as extensive seam sealing and the use of Dinitrol. Remember these cars were budget designed so avoiding rust traps was not really uppermost. |
| Bob Beaumont |
| Ah, now I understand, unfortunately, when I bought the Midget, it did not have the double skin below the boot floor. So I just replaced what was there but fabricated so that it was closer to the wing (as you can see in the photos)
Filled the rear valance and smoothed over ( will complete when off the rotisserie) Thought I had finished the welding buy hey forgot the rear bulkhead near spring hangar 😱🙄 So at the moment I have had to remove the affected areas and part of the floor again. Will take more photos tomorrow. But no progress as I have a boat trailer to modify first. 
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| Yojic |
| Hi Guys, Done some more today on the nearside spring hangar area. Hopefully completed all the welding on the shell. 
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| Yojic |
Will start prepping and filling in the areas that need it. So it should not be too long before I give it a coat of primer.
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| Yojic |
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Well Dave, congrats on finishing up the welding The mig can have a spell from car stuff and the migwire salesman can probably go on holidays Mate, I'd just like to say how impressive your work ethic is, You first came to this forum 10 months ago and with what's gone on in your life in that time it's been a real pleasure to follow your progress, with good clear thinking and acceptance of others suggestions on what you've been doing right from the start and also the pictorial story of your progress to keep the rest of us interested Very impressive all up Cheers willy |
| William Revit |
| Thank’s Willy,
I have thoroughly enjoyed it so far, there are more challenges ahead for me on the mechanical side, yet to rebuild an engine, gearbox, carbs and diff, so we will see 🤷🏻♂️ Get Seb involved with sanding and treatment with the Dynax S-50. Seb pulled the trigger on the gun by mistake and the workshop got a shower as well as us😂😂. Had to use the wife’s nail varnish remover to get it off when we got home. Here are a few photos of the progress.... 
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| Yojic |
| Some of the application with the Dynax on sills, chassis rails and inside the rear wings etc. perhaps it should be applied after painting? I would like to ask question, on the rear light clusters does it have a rubber seal around it when attached to the rear wing? On Monday I may complete the rear valence ( depending on if any steel arrives for the tanks ). 
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| Yojic |
| Fantastic progress - well impressed.
I would do the Dynaxing after painting as its all to easy to get contamination and spoil the paint. I used Dynax when I did my Heritage shell - it was fairly new out in those days, I think it is a great product. Have you tried their Ferrosol - an oily/release/water displacer etc - even smells nice ! https://www.bilthamber.com/ferrosol The rear light clusters have a rubberised foam gasket about 3mm thick on the sloping part only. Oh Volume 2 loads much faster on my machine - so thanks for that ! R. |
| richard b |
| I hope I'm not confusing what Richard has already put, or stating the bleeding obvious but just in case you have missing bits - as well as the (full size) gasket between the lamp unit and body there's another foam type full size gasket between the plastic lens and light unit (different cut outs). |
| Nigel Atkins |
| Agree with Richard, do the Dynax after painting. The stuff creeps into all the seams and shows up in all sorts of places which will make final painting a pain if done before. |
| Chris Madge |
| I also attempted to get some paint inside box sections, using a length of 5mm washer hose and a 360 degree nozzle on the end. All sections were painted on the back before welding, but a lot of that will have burnt off. I know the paint wont have covered every part, but some is better than nothing. Traditional method was to dip a ferret in paint and run that through the box sections. I also did the seam sealing first as it wont stick to the Dynax fluid. So Dynax late on, but before carpet and trim as it does reappear in unexpected places! |
| GuyW |
| Thanks Guys, oh well we do make mistakes 😂 nvm know next time 👍🏻 Anyway, finished the filler and sanding apart from the front valance ( flange to wing ) 
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| Yojic |
A couple more
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| Yojic |
| Guys, don’t know if doing the right thing but I have given the inside, engine bay and underside with Jotun epoxy primer. This is marine grade, so it should hold up well. The outer panels will be done with high build primer. So here are a few photos of the result of my limited knowledge of spraying. 
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| Yojic |
Cock pit area.
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| Yojic |
Looking to rear and boot
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| Yojic |
Now for the underside.
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| Yojic |
Two more and that should do it 😄
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| Yojic |
| Last one of the epoxy primer. Next plan is the high build primer on the outer panels.👍🏻 Will be a few days yet though. 
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| Yojic |
| Your rate of progress is phenominal! How many hours a week, say? |
| Bill Bretherton |
| Thanks Bill, Sometimes work on it 5-6 days a week, depends on paid work for others, I am between contracts at the moment. So I binge on it when I can. I thoroughly enjoy doing it. After this I have a 1500 to do ( with a K Series), Then a TR6 (Early one CP series 150bhp) But that will be way off yet. I would also like to do an MGC and a frog eye if I can source them at the right price 😂😂. |
| Yojic |
| did you remember to take the VIN plate off before spraying the engine bay? ;-) |
| David Smith |
| Oops, it may clean off? |
| Yojic |
| Hope it is hard stamped on the plate? Will sort it in the morning. |
| Yojic |
| I like the use of epoxy primer. I used it too as it is waterproof and doesn't absorb moisture and I wasn't sure at the time how long it would be before I could get a sealing colour coat done. And with damp in our UK atmosphere, and no use of a climate controlled spray booth! |
| GuyW |
| David, cleaned the vin plate, the chassis number is ok, but rubbed some of the black paint off 😱, nvm. Guy, the epoxy primer dried up ok, need to get a bit of work before I can afford the paint and stone chip etc. 🤷🏻♂️ |
| Yojic |
| Yojic Paint stripper will remove the epoxy primer ok. Another vote for epoxy primer from me, which brand are you using ? I'm currently doing a bare metal respray and coating it with UPOL epoxy primer, very easy to use, from now on epoxy is the only primer for me , it initially looks expensive but it goes a long long way, and modern HVLP spray guns have been a revelation too. Ian |
| Ian Webb 1973 GAN5 |
| For a primer coat, I can recommend this stuff:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-x-SPRAYMAX-2K-EPOXY-PRIMER-FILLER-BLACK-400ML-AEROSOL-SPRAY-680034/252349627734?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 Its a bit pricey, but goes on very easily, sands very well to a nice finish, and is an excellent surface for the top coat painting. It needs to be warm to spray otherwise the nozzles clog up, and with any spraying you must use the appropriate safety gear - overalls, goggles, gloves, and respirator with filters for paint fumes. |
| Chris Madge |
| Hi Guys,
The epoxy primer that I used is Jotun Penguard Express (comp A) ZP 4 litres Penguard Express (comp B) 1 litre (hardener I take it) Thinners 17 5 litres. mixing ratio 4:1:1 thought for an altogether price was cheap at £80.88 that included VAT and post. (SML Paint and Coatings). This stuff they use for marine and heavy weather, so thought it would be ideal for a chassis. Note: the primer that I ordered was not in stock, so they sent the more expensive one for the same cost 👍🏻. |
| Yojic |
Had my boy sanding the bonnet today, little bit of filler required, then high build primer. So started on the outer panel work 😄.
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| Yojic |
| Make sure you use a guide coat to high light lumps and bumps before top coat. |
| Chris Madge |
| "Little bit of filler required"
I am currently refining the previous filling I did on the Frogeye and keep finding slight high/ low points. So, more filler, more sanding. This has been many, many hours work over several weeks (2/3 days a week or equivalent). But note that the rear "deck" had a lot of dents and bumps with new beading and wings welded to it and the bonnet was re-welded to the front wings/ new beading with a lot of remedial work which causes distortion - a lot to hide! The problem is knowing when to stop, knowing when it is good enough for high build primer. Perhaps I'm spending far too long on this! You're about to over-take me Dave! 
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| Bill Bretherton |
| Never heard of that one Chris, will find out, as in the other workshop there is a lad who does paint spraying for a living. ( very handy 😄). Bill, we have got a way to go yet 😂 unless you have already done the engine, transmission etc. Yes, the preparation takes ages, especially if some panels are a bit distorted through welding 🤷🏻♂️ |
| Yojic |
Done a bit more today, primed the Bonet. However there are slight reactions in several places that maybe the original paint etc. Overall not too bad. The car is 48 years old so I expected something 🤪 this will sand down and another coat of primer should do it. 
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| Yojic |
Couple more of the affected areas.
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| Yojic |
Applied some seam sealer along the welds on the underside and around the engine bay.
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| Yojic |
| Next plan is some stone chip on the underside, arches etc. Then move onto the doors, wings outer sills etc. with high build primer not epoxy primer. 
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| Yojic |
| I used an aerosol version of Gravitex called Graviguard which seems quite good although I had some reaction when painting over it with Rustoleum Combicolor on underside of car (to finish in body colour). |
| Bill Bretherton |
| I've been following this thread with great interest but I need some advice!
When I sprayed my first project car I filled minor dents with fiberglass filler. Maybe 1mm or less deep dents, and very shallow ones with body filler. Sanded smooth and flat. I was filling them between grey cellulose primer coats. The top coat which was also cellulose was sanded with the usual 2500 grit, then buffing compound then polish. Looked great. After a few months the edges of the filled areas became slightly uneven so it spoilt the finish. I really don't want it to happen on project number two! Any ideas on what I may have done wrong? |
| B M Le Page |
| It could be that the cellulose under the filler had shrunk as more solvent escaped. I wouldn't fill over cellulose but preferably on bare metal although I've filled on etch primer as well. I'm currently refining the filling on the Frogeye and, following extensive reading here and elsewhere, I've come to the conclusion that epoxy primer is the best choice over filler/ metal/ old paint. Then put on high build primer, cellulse or other followed by colour. I think the epoxy provides the best barrier as a basis to paint over. I'm hoping others with more experience will confirm this. |
| Bill Bretherton |
| Are you using an etch coat first on all bare metal surfaces? I did, including spot applications when I sanded through primer coats when flatting down. I was following advice from a professional painter who kept looking in with instructions at each stage. |
| GuyW |
| Depends what the 'body filler' is-
If it's plastic body filler ,then it should be on bare metal, but if it's knifing/finishing putty it goes over the primer If it's finishing putty ,1mm is way too thick for it , it's only designed for filling minor scratches Plastic filler with hardener is what's needed for 1mm deep filling With knifing putty, even if you've done it in a few very thin coats with plenty of drying time and sanding etc ,if the total is near 1mm thick the thinners out of following painting will get into it and soften it, you won't see it unless the edges stand up when painting over, but it will shrink back later and the edges will show as yours has Lots and lots of patience NO RUSHING and warm conditions are needed for painting--no rushing coats on--plenty of drying time between coats If you've got plenty of finish coat on you could possibly get away with another light rubdown with your 2500 and warm soapy water, but don't rush into it , leave it for a couple of months till it's all settled and then have a go at it- There is a way around it but too late for you now Use 2pak primer before your topcoats, just a thin coat and let it harden off for a day or so, give it a very light rub to get good adhesion then give it a good coat of 2pak primer--let it dry for a day or two again then a light rub again and paint it--The 2 pak should stop the thinners in the top coats getting at the fillers below |
| William Revit |
| Hi William I'm reading your advice very carefully!
The blemishes on my first project were just about tolerable. The advice is im looking for is to mprove the results for project number two so it's not too late at all! It's for when when I get round to the spraying which will not be for a good while. With your info I m sure I can avoid the problem. Tbh im a bit nervous using 2 pak but I'll look at it again. From what you have said you can use cellulose top coat over the 2 pack primer. I would like to use cellulose for the he top coat. Apart from those little blemishes I was pretty pleased with the final results on my first go. The pics are from my first nut and bolt restoration. 
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| B M Le Page |
Self etching primer and high build primer pics
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| B M Le Page |
| Sorry for yet a other post but I think the explanations about the incorrect use of filler, thinners soaking in and not giving enough time for solvent evaporation is probably the cause. I will do this on my test panel (an old wing) and maybe try a few different things. It sounds very much that this will solve the problem. Thanks |
| B M Le Page |
| Guys, with the Jotun epoxy primer I have used it is no problem for bare metal, filler and even on top of old paint. Having said that I did have a couple of reactions on the bonnet mentioned before. This has now been rectified with sanding down and recoated with epoxy primer, is not too bad to sand down and I am pleased with the result. Todays action, completed the stone chip on the underside, arches and around the engine bay. 
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| Yojic |
Sanded down the sills, rear wings, A Posts and doors. The valances will need a bit of filler to be OK, then all ready for high build primer.
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| Yojic |
| Hi Guys, Started priming the shell with high build, plenty of flattening to do to get some of the flaws out but I am pleased with the result. So, rub down and another flash coating should do it. 
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| Yojic |
| It is not perfect as there are some areas that need attention then another coat of primer. Then that just leaves the boot lid to do👍🏻 
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| Yojic |
| Hi Guys, Not much going on at the moment, just prepping the Midget for the top coat. Just after a consensus regarding the colour, the original colour is BLVC 19 Harvest Gold. Not too keen on that colour, what do you guys suggest? Or should I keep to the original colour. Definitely not a metallic one, think it need to be a flat colour. 
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| Yojic |
| Not if you don't like that colour especially after all the work you've done. Glacier White is quite a good colour... :) |
| Jeremy MkIII |
This thread was discussed between 03/08/2020 and 01/09/2020
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