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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Whooshing noise on startup

When I start my car I hear a strange periodic whooshing/squealing noise.

It is louder in the cabin.

Any thoughts on what this might be?

-- Josh
Josh L

starter motor?

fan belt slipping?

water pump?

alternator?

it needs to happen when you have the bonnet up to better locate but if it's intermitent . . .
Nigel Atkins

clutch?

can't think of whooshing noise perhaps put up a vid if and when
Nigel Atkins

It happens every time I start the car, while it is warming up.
I will try and record it this evening.
I don't think that it is the fanbelt, alternator or water pump (happens with the belt removed).
Could it be the gearbox?

-- Josh
Josh L

Just thinking about this Joshwaaa

Is this a recent problem? Since you started playing with a new rad?

or is it longstanding?

Could it be the water pump starting up? Is there a leak? sucking in air etc?

Is it the carbs?






C L Carter

squeal sounds like it might be clutch/starter(?) whoosing might be gearbox(?), have you got the carpets, gearlever gaiters and grommets/plug removed?

I'm a bit lost now too - do you mean the noise is only at a cold start up or is from start up until the engine is warm

ETA: typed before Christian's post
Nigel Atkins

flux capacitor charging?
Matt1275Bucks

Superman surprising Lois Lane !
Nigel Atkins

Trying it as you have with the fan belt removed gets rid of most of the above.

However I too have very little idea of the problem you are trying to describe.

My problem trying to determine what could be the cause is I am afraid your description,

How can a Whoooosh be the same as a squeal?

I think any answer at the moment is extremely speculative and this needs more detail I am afraid.
Bob Turbo Midget England

These things are difficult to describe. It has been happening for a while, since before my recent renovations.
I will pay some closer attention to it this evening and try to get a recording.
I was concerned it might be a sign of insufficient oil in the gearbox, will try and measure this later.

-- Josh
Josh L

I took it as whoosh then squeal - as in Lois's surprise

Josh taking the drive belt off suggests he's read some recent previous thread or posts

does the noise vary if you had the clutch pedal down in or out of gear

perhaps the two noises have different sources - as in Lois's surprise
Nigel Atkins

Whoosh ? - probably the clutch release bearing spinning up to speed if the bearing is jut dragging on the clutch. (which come to think of it, it should do)
Guy Weller

Whoosh and clutch bearing are a nervous combination, an indication the carbon is about to self destruct!
Paul Walbran

Having listened to it a few times just now, I guess it is more of a squeal.

It starts as soon as the car is running, and seems to stop (or is less noticeable) after a little while.

It is not the fanbelt, waterpump or alternator.

I had a go recording it, you can listen here:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11871055/Squeal.mp3

Normally it is more periodic, with the noise reducing and increasing ever second or so.

This is a 1500, so has a roller clutch bearing.

-- Josh
Josh L

Have you been playing with the timing chain and or tensioner?

Is the sound more at the front or rear of the engine?
Lawrence Slater

Nope, never touched the timing chain or tensioner.
I think it is more at the rear of the engine, and louder at the sill level.
It does have loud tappets (think my feeler gauges are a bit thick!).

-- Josh
Josh L

My advice is ignore it. If the sound begins to get significantly louder, accompanied by difficulty selecting gears etc, then I would take another look. Otherwise, just like tinitus, get used to it. :)
Lawrence Slater

Could be the first motion shaft bearing spinning in it's housing or a dry spigot bush.
F Pollock

I couldn’t hear much from my computer but it does have a sound card(?)

did you check the oil level and condition, personally as it’s so cheap and easy to do, if you don’t know the age and quality of the oil, I empty out and replace with new anyway that way you know the box has the correct type and level of fresh oil in it – also you can inspect the old oil for any metal bits

>>does the noise vary if you had the clutch pedal down in or out of gear?

perhaps the two noises have different sources<<

- do you ever get used to tinitus
Nigel Atkins

<<- do you ever get used to tinitus >>
certainly, it only bothers me maybe 5 minutes every day, sometimes not at all.
David Smith

oh, dear I copied L's spelling as I can't spell

so it's tinnitus

however -

'Tinitus is an EBM/synthpop festival in Stockholm, Sweden. It is traditionally held in the beginning of November each year'

so it turns out you probably wouldn't ever get used to tinitus
Nigel Atkins

My god. I never knew that tinnitus affected my spelling too.:)

Thing is though, I just tune a deaf ear to it. lol.

As David said you get used to it being there, and sometimes no longer notice it. Mines a high pitched whistle, what's yours? I've heard of some people who describe waterfalls and steam trains. ---

--- And even whoosing noises. Josh? Are you a tinnitus-iser too?
Lawrence Slater

mines a mid-to-high end buzzing I think; it's actually incredibly difficult for me to analyse and describe it because I've convinced myself it's not a real noise and therefore does not exist. Although it will roughly double in intensity after a Joe Bonamassa gig... takes 2 to 3 days to settle down again.
Sorry, we're waaaay off topic...
David Smith

I'm with Paul Walbran, and would put my money on the roller release bearing going dry. Bearings often make a rough noise when cold, which eases when the old grease in them warms up and moves around a bit.

Unless it's tinnitus, in which case all bets are off.
Growler

They have been looking for the cause of tinnitus for years. It is obviously related to long exposure to driving Spridgets!

Only l have enjoyed the privilege for longer than l have owned these cars. Maybe riding M/C does it too.
I get a white- noise hiss louder then speech, plus a jet taxi-ing on a distant runway. Constantly there but you don't get any choice, so l just live with it .
Guy Weller

Did you know that most people experience subjective tinnitus that is heard only by the sufferer? But, sometimes people experience noise in the head that can be heard externally by other people. Mine is confined to my head, although when I was first examined, the specialist who diagnosed me, thought he could detect the sound, a high pitched whistle at around 10-12khz. It came on following smashing my head onto the M23 in 1987. I have it constantly in both ears, but loudest in the left. I'm so used to it now, that I'd miss it if it wasn't there. :)


Sorry Josh. This doesn't help at all. I think you have to wait to see if it gets worse before you go pulling the engine to check the g/box. On the other hand, if the roller is dry, you'd be better sorting that before it siezes and damages the clutch cover.
Lawrence Slater

Josh, you could try that "cure" that I have suggested to others on a couple of occasions recently. Spray something like WD40 onto the release bearing using an extension straw on the spray can and directing it through the bellhousing inspection port or clutch release arm port. It won't harm the clutch as it will quickly evaporate / dry off the plate if it gets on there. But it may be enough to stop the bearing hissing as it spins up, and may prolong its life.
Guy Weller

Guy it's a 1500 - does that have similar access?
David Smith

I've used WD40 to stop a fan belt squeal and a noise on a mate's water pump as I thought it might just be grit and it might wash the grit out, whether it was or not the noise didn't return

I'm not saying what my tinnitus might be caused by in case I get another call from a company offereing to claim industrial injury for me, although when they last rang I couldn't hear them because of hissing on the line
Nigel Atkins

Ah, your right David. May not be so easy on a 1500. But one should still be able to get a straw in there beside the lever arm and directed towards the bearing
Guy Weller

The thought of spraying WD40 anywhere near a clutch gives me the willies, but the thought of pulling a Spridget gearbox to replace a release bearing is much worse... I'd give it a try.
Growler

On a 1500, it is possible that the bearing is hanging on the sleeve it slides on, or the goofy release pivot pin is fubared, or even the slave cylinder is maintaining too much pressure on the bearing. The first two may respond to WD40 etc, and the pin can be examined or replaced externally. Slave cylinder can be felt by hand, though it helps to be familiar with it (it's female!).

FRM
FR Millmore

This thread was discussed between 28/06/2012 and 01/07/2012

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