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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - wishbones

Sorry for bringing this subject up yet again, but....

I have a set of original wishbones that are in very good condition apart from the fulcrum pin bearings which are worn and need replacing.

Reading through old posts, there has been some criticism of newly manufactured wishbones, and I just can't bring myself to ditch these old ones in case I find that I can easily repair them in the future.

On utube I've recently come across an interesting series of videos showing someone restoring a frogeye, and he seems to have replaced the bearings in his wishbones without too much trouble at all.

I have followed up the supplier of the bearings in USA but of course due to postage costs to UK they are relatively expensive, certainly to the point where it appears much more cost effective to buy newly manufactured wishbones here.

Before I ditch these old wishbones, I wondered if anyone knew of a supplier of the bearings in the UK, and whether anyone had attempted replacement themselves?
Any comments appreciated.
Many thanks
Phil
P J Dent

Who is the US supplier?
J Bubela

I assume there must be someone in the UK producing the bushes, or no-one would be reconditioning them. The problem is finding them.

I did manage to purchase a set of bushes on eBay about ten years ago.

The bushes are brazed in, so should be easy enough to replace if you have oxy-acetylene and a spare pin to align the threads.
Dave O'Neill 2

The US company is Apple Hydraulics

and if I've got it right, the utube video is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuuPfPsmvyw

Looks a fairly straightforward process to me although as Dave says, you would need to get the screw threads to be correctly aligned, and also the distance between the ends of the bushes is critical?

It just seems a crying shame to throw away good original wishbones if they can be repaired quite easily??
I think I'll hang on to them for the moment!!
P J Dent

The wishbone bush brazing is in part 2 at about 4:40 .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuuPfPsmvyw

I hope they held up as from the video watching him braze was painful.
David Billington

I didn't think Silver Soldering was the same as Brazing?

Rob
Rob aka MG Moneypit

Rob,

To some extent that's semantics as depending on the alloys used they can run in the same sort of temperatures but the silver solders I often use run at lower temperature than typical Cu-Zn brazing alloys. Silver solders can be classed according to their silver content as you can get high % silver with high melting temperatures down to low % silver content with a low melting point. I would think a medium silver content would be OK for this but you end up with a suitable joint at a higher cost but with lower heat input.

The issue I have with that bit of video of the joint being done is it appears to be badly prepared with little or no flux evident so the filler isn't wetting out the surfaces and forming a nice fillet and bad brazing technique where the torch is played on the filler directly causing it to drop onto the joint and run off rather than heat the joint and add filler allowing the heat of the joint to melt the filler and flow along the joint.
David Billington

I would not have used silver ither... i would have used brass

i didnt like how he just free handed the spindle reaming on the brench drill...obviously it worked ... but i would have bolted it down into place

good vid ...i enjoyed it

prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

If it's that easy we should all be reconditioning our own wishbones, if only we could get the fulcrum pin bearings.

I've done a lot of copper CH work over many years and it seems just as easy as that so if I can get the correct silver solder I'd certainly give it a go.

Rob
Rob aka MG Moneypit

Rob

Do you need any to practice on?

Dave O'Neill 2

Until about 10 years ago the replacement bush kits were readily available from the regular suspects for just a couple of pounds. Certainly a lot cheaper at the time than buying a recondition wishbone. I remember considering doing a set to save hard earned pennies but I didn't have access to gas welding at the time.

Dave, with that stock I am surprised you haven't set up a jig and done some. In an afternoon you could probably braise in a couple of dozen pairs for resale.
GuyW

Dave, a veritable gold mine!!!

Rob
Rob aka MG Moneypit

Guy,
If you can set up a basic brazing hearth (old fire bricks/firebacks etc) you can get the heat with a large propane torch or even 2 ! (keep out of wind but avoid fumes).
With oxy you have to careful not to burn out the flux or overheat the work.

Not sure what grades were used, the ones I use for model engineering vary - where multi stage s/soldering of a job is required, I start with a higher temp one and then the next stage a slightly lower one etc.

B6
C4 with Tenacity 4a flux.
Easyflo no2 with Easyflow flux (lowest temp solder)

The metals must be clean and the flux is made up as a paste and spread over the areas to be joined.

As David noted heat the work (especially larger chunks) not the solder - it can help if the solder is flashed with the torch and dipped into the powder flux as it makes the flux stick to the solder and assists solder flow. The joints need to be fairly close fitting to get a good result.

I didn't know how originals were fabricated and it would be useful if the s/solder that was used originally could be identified.

Prop with the higher temp grades the joints look much more 'brass' coloured than I think you imagine.

Welding suppliers sell it and also Model Engineering suppliers are good for small quants.

R.
richard boobier

I get my supplies from CUP Alloys http://www.cupalloys.co.uk/home/ , no connection with them and have had good service and they have a wide range to chose from.
David Billington

Dave
A veritable gold mine indeed. MGOC recently bought a collection of shocks from me for resto. A call to them might prove profitable.
Alan
Alan Anstead

I have two sets of threaded bushes but need a wishbone in good condition, preferably one of the later reinforced ones. Dave, you had a pile........what do you want for one.
Bob Beaumont

Bob,

Is this old stock or are they available ?

Would you be able to take a pic of the ends where they meet the wishbones + dims if possible as I think I may have a go at machining up some.

R.

richard boobier

I've found the bushes that I purchased. They were made by a company near Yeovil and the instructions are to drill through the original bushes and braze the new ones in, so the original bushes aren't removed completely.

Bob, email me - daveo138 at yahoo co uk
Dave O'Neill 2

Dave,

I would have thought that removal of the original bushes would be best as brazing a sleeve into an existing bush would be more troublesome/problematic IMHO than removing the old bush and brazing in replacements. In my recent thread asking about the bush dimensions Paul Walbran responded with these dimensions

"large bush OD 13/16" small bush OD 3/4""

so how do your bushes compare size wise? If the same sizes then maybe the vendor was just referring to drilling as a process to remove the original bush more easily than unbrazing them which could be troublesome.
David Billington

David

You may be right. From memory, I think it said to use a 20.5mm drill bit, so that would be in between the original bush sizes.
Dave O'Neill 2

How are the bushes set up to ensure they are aligned in all directions if a jig is not used ?

Is this the reason Dave's instructions called for drilling through - hence self aligning - but would need to use a lower melting point silver solder to avoid melting out original joints.
richard boobier

I think you set them in position on a fulcrum pin to align them. The bushes also need to be correctly spaced apart and the pitch of the threads on the two pieces needs to be in phase which would be hard to achieve by any other means.
GuyW

From Paul Walbran's information the large bush is 13/16" OD so 20.6mm so a 20.5mm drill is going to effectively remove the large bush and small bush entirely so no need to deal with brazing a sleeve in a sleeve.
David Billington

Hi Dave

Are your email details correct I have had two failed messages?

Thanks

Bob
Bob Beaumont

Yep. Are you using a letter 'o' not a zero?
Dave O'Neill 2

Ah Ha fixed it!
Bob Beaumont

This thread was discussed between 25/09/2016 and 12/10/2016

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