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MG MG Y Type - Birth of the Y

Standing in my garage today, with the door open and the sun streaming in, I began to muse about the cars either side of me.
On one side was my 1930 M.G. 18/80 and on the other was my 1952 MG YB. It dawned on me that as the Y type was actually designed in 1938, there was technically only eight years difference in what were two entirely different cars.
Although they both have a separate chassis, one had a traditional panelled, wooden body frame and the other an all steel body with built in sun roof. The 18/80 has ‘cart springs’ all round with friction Andre Hartford dampers, whilst the YB had the all new ‘independent front suspension’ and hydraulic shock absorbers. Then there was the great big straight six cylinder, long stroke, over-head cam engine against the diminutive 4 cylinder push-rod XPAG unit. What an advance in automotive design and engineering in such a short time, notwithstanding all the other MG models that had been built in the intervening years.
It was then that I realised that the MG Y Type, now in its 70th year was launched only 24 years after the first Raworth bodied M.G. was sold in June 1923 by Cecil Kimber at the Morris Garages, Alfred Lane, Oxford.
I suppose in automotive evolution, it is like comparing the early days of flight against the later jet engine planes.
The MG One and a Quarter Litre was advertised as “A brilliant new Member of the famous MG breed” and has lived up to that pedigree and is now becoming once again a much sought-after car.
Whilst we celebrate the Y Type’s 70th birthday this year, perhaps we as owners and all MG organisations, should start thinking about how our much loved MG Y Types can help to celebrate the M.G. Centenary in 2023?
Keith Herkes.



Keith D Herkes

Excellent summary their Keith. Yes the MG Y although 'born' late was definitely ahead of its time in 1947 and even more so when you consider, as you say, designed in 1938.

One can only wonder what would have come along in the 1940s if the war had not happened.

Paul
Paul Barrow

It's only my speculative guess, but I would say that it was WW2 that contributed to the advancement of the motor car amongst many other 20th century inventions. The factory at Abingdon, like most other factories, went over to war effort, and as the saying goes, necessity is the mother of invention, it was necessary to make or improve our technology in order to beat the enemy. Come peacetime and all that our engineers had learned during hostilities they could now put into use for the benefit of all.
Shame that the actress Hedy Lamarr's brilliant invention was too far ahead of it's time. At the beginning of World War II, Lamarr and composer George Antheil developed a radio guidance system for Allied torpedoes, which used spread spectrum and frequency hopping technology to defeat the threat of jamming by the Axis powers. From that technology we now enjoy things like remote as in car key fobs, television channel changers and to some extent mobile cell phones. If only Lamarr had persued science instead of acting.
R Taylor

Keith
You have opened Pandora's box as there is a lively debate going on at the moment as to whether those 1923 Raworth cars are in fact MGs or still Morrises
Our Australian Pre War Register are pushing for 1923.

It will be interesting to watch as the debates rages to a final outcome.

cheers
Ian
Ian Prior

Hi Keith, I understand the "Anniversary Year" is up for discussion at the Delegates Meeting after the National Rally in Adelaide.

We will also be discussing it at the Australian Y-Type 70th Anniversary Weekend in June, as well as the Australian Pre-War MG Register Rally in October.

Certainly a lively debate is expected in the next few years.

I hope is that the MGCCUK will support the move to 1923, and not bend to any pressure from the current owners of the MG name who were sold "a brand founded in 1924".

Cheers

Tony
A L SLATTERY

Hi Tony,
Yes, I understand that the MG car movement 'down under' is looking to get ratification from all the MG groups in Australia and New Zealand before the end of the year, that 2023 will be the 100th Anniversary of the first MGs being sold.

However, I see that the Australian motoring Press have latched onto the 1924 date in their coverage of the current campaign to establish MG in Australia under the current ownership of the marque.

It’s possible that they are just using a Press Release from SAIC (MG Motor UK Ltd.)

"MG (MORRIS GARAGES) is a British sports car manufacturer founded in 1924, and although the company has survived for almost 100 years, the current Chinese owned MG Motors company is far from the company it used to be, although it still operates from Birmingham, England.

https://practicalmotoring.com.au/car-reviews/2017-mg-gs-review/

There is irrefutable evidence for 1923, so a 'no brainer' really.

Keep on Y'ing

Keith

Keith D Herkes

Hi Guys,
I also have been caught up in this topic and to satisfy my curiosity I have been reading the opening chapters in all my MG books and must say I enjoyed the read. There certainly seems to be a consensus and quite a bit of information to support the fact that those first few Morris specials sold in 1923 by Morris Garages were the start of it all and why not?

As further fuel, I wonder how many remember that in 2003 the Town of Abingdon celebrated 80 years of MG by creating the "Abingdon Museum MG Exhibition" in the upper level of the County Hall open from 14th June to 14 Sept. The Museum was supported by the MGCC and MGOC and a huge collection of MG memorabilia came from private collections and other renowned museums. The event was backed by the Douglas Mickel Trust.

I was fortunate to have been in Abingdon at the time and enjoyed the displays immensely. A 12 page Souvenir Booklet was available written by Brian Moylan which gave an excellent potted history of MG and some great period photos. See Front Cover attached. If there is any interest in the booklet I could try and get a good quality scan for Paul to put on the website?

If a large number of people and extensive resources were brought together back in 2003 after 80 years why is there still debate?
It is good to see that the MG Museum is now a permanent feature and great to revisit it in 2015. As an aside, back in 2003 on the 23rd June to be precise it happened to be our YTs 54 Birthday so we just had to have a photo in Cemetery Road!!! See Attached.
Cheers
Richo YT 3208


R A Prior

Sorry, MG Museum Booklet Cover this time!

R A Prior

Hi Richo and everybody.
First of all, I am sure that many of us would like to see a copy of the Abingdon Museum booklet on this website. Thanks for the generous offer to get a scan to Paul.
As far as the MG Centenary is concerned, there has been an ongoing debate for many years, mainly through ignorance of the existing evidence or a difference of opinion in what constitutes an MG. The latter relating to when the MG Car Company was formed, or when they used their own Guarantee Plates or when the Company became incorporated etc.etc. None of which relate to when the first Morris Garages specials, ie M.G.s were made and sold.
Perhaps the biggest error is by those who claim that the MG Octagon Trade Marks were registered in 1924. This is a red herring as the applications for the Trade Mark were made several years later and 1924 was just a convenient date put on the forms at the time. The Octagon had been in use since early 1923.
Sadly the 1924 misconception has been perpetuated by the MGCC UK Ltd and now of course by MG Motor UK Ltd. in its current advertising campaigns.
The clincher in all this is a 1927 publication by The Morris Garages Ltd. Oxford, in which the opening sentence reads, “When M.G. Sports cars were first introduced in 1923”. Straight from the horse’s mouth- so to speak!
Perhaps in both the UK and Australia we could get 100 MG Y Types together to celebrate 100 years of MG in 2023?
So you’ve still got a few years to get all those restoration projects finished.
Keith
11.04.2017


Keith D Herkes

On the subject of the MG Centenary, Simon Goldsworthy, the Editor of the MG Enthusiast Magazine, starts his editorial in the May Issue with a mention of the Y Type's 70th Birthday, along with the MGC's 50th, but goes on to discuss the start of MG.
It is quite clear that he is firmly on the side of 1923, but has asked for the opinions of others to be sent to him for publication.
For those who do not get the magazine, I have re-produced Simon's editorial, which I am sure he will not mind, especially if it generates more copy for him to print. If you have a view now is the time to air it, either here on the BBS or in MGE, or both.

Start making plans for 2023.
Keith

Keith D Herkes

This thread was discussed between 06/04/2017 and 16/04/2017

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