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MG MG Y Type - David Pelham's YT

...is for auction at Silverstone Auctions, NEC Classic Car Show this weekend. Guide price £30k -35k.
Marc Hanson

A good buy for sure.

David though no doubt would be cringing at the wording of the advert which has completely ignored all the wonderful research he and David Lawrence have done over the years to prove that (to date) there are known now to have been 904 YTs made and not 877! I did point this out to the authors of the advert shortly after they had released the ad and that David would have been offended by this oversight, but they didnt even reply!

Look forward to hearing of this excellent vehicle in a new home.

Paul
Paul Barrow

http://www.silverstoneauctions.com/1950%20MGY-Type%20Tourer

Absolute gem this car is, it looked concours to my eye when I had opportunity to view it last year. Fingers crossed it goes to an enthusiast and gentleman like David.
R E Knight

Paul,

Any idea of the outcome, did the YT sell at auction?
R E Knight

Sorry Richard - no idea, you would have to ask the auctioneers or someone that was there - I wasnt so cannot comment one way or another.

Paul
Paul Barrow

And the answer is....

http://www.silverstoneauctions.com/1950%20MGY-Type%20Tourer

Gosh, as they used to say in comics.

Can anyone explain what's happening to classic prices? I know the economy is supposed to be reviving, but prices seem to have gone a bit mad generally - I haven't seen any other Y prices recently, but a decent T-type seems to be £30k, and at the NEC show yesterday good but not wonderful MGAs were asking more than that.

Paul: I don't think auctioneers lose much sleep ensuring the accuracy of their listings. A friend of mine, who had once owned an Aston that came up for auction, and knew that it had had at least three owners, pointed out to the auction house that their claim of "one owner" was, to put it politely, not quite the truth. Did they change the listing? Make a guess....
Tim Griggs

DAVID PELHAM'S CAR SOLD FOR £33,350, I SAW IT ON THE SILVERSTONE STAND ON FRIDAY BUT UNFORTUNATELY I COULD NOT STAY FOR THE AUCTION BUT THE DETAILS ARE ON THE SIVERSTONE WEB SITE.
M R Brown

Nice to hear it fetched such good price. The car was in superb condition so can't say I'm surprised. Be interested to know if it remains here in UK or gone overseas.
R E Knight

A good price but the net result would have been £28,348 after commission and VAT.
M R Brown

VAT kills everything, should be reduced to 17.5% as it was, would encourage people to spend more, create jobs and make UK more competitive.

R E Knight

I too was at the NEC on Friday and Sunday. I missed the auction on the Friday but had a chat with the guys on Sunday morning. The hammer price was £29k to which Buyers premium @ 12.5% is added plus VAT.

The seller also has to pay a premium of 5% on the hammer price plus £300 entry fee which amounts to £1750 - £27250 to the seller.

The auction house get both seller and buyers premium which amounts to £5375 - a real double whammy! H and H charge 5% Sellers premium and 12% buyers premium with the latter subject to VAT (and probably the sellers premium as well!

I can recall buyers premiums a lot lower - around 5% but perhaps 12-12.5% is an industry rate.

If you buy at auction you take more of a risk, and I doubt if you see the car running (unless at the NEC there was a prior opportunity). If you were buying from a dealer then the price would be reflected accordingly. The estimate in the programme for the YT was £30-35k. so maybe a dealer would have asked £35k. Which is a lot of money. The history of David's car is probably far more thoroughly researched than any other YT and that would add to its value.

In answer to Tim's comment about prices - yes they are going up significantly. There is a lot of money about and there are some very wealthy people. Why invest in stocks or bricks and mortar when you can buy a classic and have some fun and then sell it on. Moreover, there is no tax to pay compared with buying property. of course restorations are more expensive and if someone is buying a car, then buy the best where all the restoration work has been done.

However, those who want to do dome work then its a case of looking at what you can find. There was an interesting Y on e-bay, which has probably sold by now that looked very presentable for a light restoration. That was standing at £4.6k this morning

Y's have been going up in price and I have seen several advertised at between £10.5k and £18.5k.
I know where there is an excellent example for £14k.

Jerry
J P BIRKBECK

Ys are definitely becoming more popular guys and this is certainly part of the reason for prices going up. This has been a trend that has been fairly steady since 2002 and the interest is reflected in the contributions we receive and new owners coming through.

To be honest though, perhaps our cars now are getting the correct recognition for the great cars they have always been ... but now the secret is just getting out there!

Paul
Paul Barrow

While it is most desirable that the late David Pelham's estate realises its full potential for his family, I fear the increasing value of our cars will change the culture within our club. Fine if all one wants is a good return on what is perceived as an investment but I fear those who can afford such high value cars have a different attitude to life than the grass root enthusiast. I am also a member of the Ford Anglia 105e club where our cars are of very little value but there is a rich camaraderie, as there has been up to now with the Y type. I drive my Y type because it pleases me and have tended it over a long period of time which is the same for my Anglia and enjoy a friendship with other owners. While one should not generalise, but I do find a somewhat stuffy attitude among the owners in the more exotic registers such as MMM and T type, whose main topic of conversation is often about the value of their cars. When I consider that the Ford Anglia had a racing pedigree second to none it is obvious that these people know only the price of everything but not the value. Bryan
B Mellem

I have to agree with Brian on this one. Prices cannot keep on rising but until a more lucrative form of investment arises they probably will. Perhaps when interest rates go up then the market might alter possibly downwards as cheap money becomes tighter.

Jerry
J P BIRKBECK

I suppose "Value" of all cars like any other good is what someone is prepared to pay.

Interesting compared to rpi calculation from price when new. using following web site http://www.measuringworth.com/ukcompare/relativevalue.php

In 2011, the relative value of £571 0s 0d from 1947 ranges from £17,300.00 to £79,980.00.

A simple Purchasing Power Calculator would say the relative value is £18,330.00. This answer is obtained by multiplying £571.00 by the percentage increase in the RPI from 1947 to 2011.

This may not be the best answer.

The best measure of the relative value over time depends on if you are interested in comparing the cost or value of a Commodity , Income or Wealth , or a Project . For more discussion on how to pick the best measure, read the essay "Explaining the Measures of Worth."

If you want to compare the value of a £571 0s 0d Commodity in 1947 there are three choices. In 2011 the relative:
real price of that commodity is £18,330.00
labour value of that commodity is £49,430.00
income value of that commodity is £62,840.00


If you want to compare the value of a £571 0s 0d Income or Wealth , in 1947 there are three choices. In 2011 the relative:
historic standard of living value of that income or wealth is £18,330.00
economic status value of that income or wealth is £62,840.00
economic power value of that income or wealth is £79,980.00


If you want to compare the value of a £571 0s 0d Project in 1947 there are three choices. In 2011 the relative:
historic opportunity cost of that project is £17,300.00
labour cost of that project is £49,430.00
economic cost of that project is £79,980.00

R E Knight

Ur .. I'm lost on your figures Richard!

I am sure that most would follow your initial criteria i.e that the relative value of £571 9n 1947 expressed in todays prices would be around £18k.

Probably easier to compare the average income in 1947 and the cost of a packet of fags and a pint of mild rather than the complex formula you have adopted.

Beyond my simple mind Richard!

Jerry
J P BIRKBECK

I appreciate your analysis Richard - very interesting.

The other key ingredient in the "value" equation is supply & demand. There are a limited number of Y's that have survived in the condition of David's car, and with an increasing population with disposable income for "toys", prices will rise over time.

We can hope our cars retain a "common touch", and using them regularly is an important gesture in this end. Our cars have Pre-War styling, yet post war driveability - for most, an ideal balance for those who enjoy driving.

My personal opinion is that some models and makes of cars are suitable as investments (MG K3), while others belong to the enthusiasts (MG Y-Type). You get a lot of car for your money in a complete Y-Type (Tourer or Saloon).

David Pelham was an exceptional person and had a passion for his cars - it did not surprise me that his car would attract a premium price.

Now back to the driving,

Tony
A L SLATTERY

All very interesting comments.

Tony is however probably correct in that we should now let this rest as carrying on this thread in David#s name is no longer appropriate his memory. I would, out of respect to him and his family, suggest that if this is to be continued we move it to a new topic name, or let it rest at this point please.

David was a great friend to many Y Type owners and I for one miss him still every day.

Thank you

Paul
Paul Barrow

This thread was discussed between 12/11/2013 and 27/11/2013

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