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MG MG Y Type - Front camshaft bearing new vs old.

After a funeral that ended up giving a bunch of us Covid, it’s good to be slowly getting back to the shed. Grandad Tom had the last laugh!
Getting ready to replace front and middle camshaft bearings, I see that the original front bearing had a knockdown tab at 6 o’clock, locating into a cutout in the housing. I have two new front bearings - both are solid ring, not split, and neither have a tab. Do I assume that a tight interference fit will be good enough? With no locating dowel on the front bearing, I’m worried that the oil holes might wander over time.
Also, I notice what looks like a deliberate (but rough) casting hole between the inner block and the cam sprocket area - is this just to aid oil splash?
Thanks for all advice.
John.






J P Hall

Update to save confusion: it turns out the new front bearing shell (GS8765) does in fact have a barely-visible split. It took a long squint to even see it. My question stands though: no tab on the new shell, but do I just knock a makeshift tag down into the cutout?
Hoping Willy in Tasmania or Tony S in Qld might see this while everyone else is asleep.
Thanks all.
John.

J P Hall

Hi John
Are you sure they need replacing, a bit unusual that it needs cam bearings, the spec is .0016" to .004" clearance. If it looks ok i'd be having a measure up first.
No need to peg the front bearing if you replace it, but if you want to it's up to John to do it.
After you're happy with the fit just use the square side of a screwdriver tip/blade, hold the screwdriver at about 45degrees pointing up at the bearing , line it up with the slot in the block and give it a whack with your best knockometer
That daggy hole in the block, I reckon it's more to do with equalising crankcase/breather pressure but there'd probably be a bit of oil splash from it as well.
William Revit

You beauty, Willy - thank you the prompt advice. Yes, visible uneven wear at the rear 1/3 of the front shell, around the 5.00 section when viewed from the front. I’m told this is the bearing most likely to cop some wear. My middle bearing would be reusable, but has some wear, so am replacing. The rear bearing seems to be fine, but if I can tease it out, I’ll replace it too, as I bought the set in case I needed them.
I like your advice re. fashioning a makeshift tag in the front lip, as “belt & braces”. I’m surprised there’s not a little nick in the lip of the new item, to make it easier. I’ll be doing that with the old camshaft sitting in place, to avoid collateral damage.
I got a fright when I saw the rough old hole in the casting - but what you say makes sense.
So tomorrow, but slowly after my first taste of the bastard bug, “onward and upward”.
Yours,
John.
J P Hall

Just blew your bearing up for a look--yeah he's a bit sad looking---It's got the look of an engine that's sat for ages with old oil in it and the acid's got into the bearing---wasn't this a reco engine-?

If you get your bearing in all nice and the cam fits up ok, I'd just about be tempted not to bother tagging the bearing--A bit old school--It won't move, but up to you, your car-if you want peace of mind, do it, but you don't have to bash it to death, just any out of round ding will suffice.
William Revit

Willy, this pic shows where the worst wear was. An actual hole in the rear area. I like your idea about just putting a little pimple in the shell where the cutout is.
The engine was rebuilt by a very experienced retired engine man, and has sat for 4 years since the rebuild with oil fed around the place and the occasional turn on the handle. Maybe I didn’t do enough to look after it, but I’m sure that bearing deterioration is prior damage - so I’m incredibly surprised that he seems to have overlooked the cam bearing condition in reinstalling the camshaft. Oh well, at least I’m learning more about d.i.y. engine work. I still have my beloved ex- Templestowe hillclimb TC to play with down the track, so all this experience is priceless. You fancy a fortnight in Queensland in a year or so ??
Hope all this is of interest to other Y Typers, by the way.
John.


J P Hall

Yes/no, it's not your doing, that bearing is old, hasn't been replaced. -It's typical of what happens sometimes when an engine has sat for ages with old/dirty oil in it(before it was rebuilt)-The acid in the dirty oil just gets in and eats the bearings-
It's a bit of a bummer but it happens-
Your mate probably got caught out,(I'm going in to bat for him) If he had the engine block upside down fitting the crank, cam etc ,that spot would have been up around the top and if he looked at the cam bearings while it was up that way the rest of the bearing probably looked ok---bad luck, but, It probably would have gone for years like that but far from ideal.

As far as Qld. goes---I've sealed myself off here, not going anywhere and no visitors---We get a boat load of fresh virus carriers every day, even going to the supermarket I'm very nervous and try and get in early before the campervans arrive - We're getting over 1000 new cases every day at the moment---bit scarey

Which TC racer do you have, has he been shortened or the motor moved or anything interesting.
On another subject, do you know what's happened to Peter Kerr's(rip) yellow TC--got a bit of a connection to that car, just wondering what's happening with it-I could find a spot for it.
William Revit

I agree Willy, my mate would no way have let that damage go, if he’d been aware of it. I would use him again happily. Sounds strange, but I believe we all make mistakes.
One last thing, relevant to this thread- I have the new rebuilt oil pump from FTFU, and as it comes with a new driven gear spindle already installed, I’ll be removing the old spindle - once I figure out the internal thread to rig up an extractor. I’m hoping it’s not too hard to extract - tight interference fit do you think?
Re. the TC Willy - yes, several points of interest, but I won’t bore everyone on this thread - how do I contact you?
John.
J P Hall

It's -M8x1mm pitch
It'll pull out easy enough using a tube/socket/stack of washers and drawing it out with the bolt-
Fitting the new one-
It's super important to start it dead square and tap it in dead square--put the shaft in the freezer overnight to help soften the fit, use your bolt in the end of it to knock it in with--for two reasons, Reason #1-it prevents damage to the end of the shaft, AND #2--it prevents you from accidentally fitting the shaft wrong end first which makes it a one way trip and hard to remove with the thread on the inner end-----get a square to make sure you've got it square all the time specially at the start, dead square nothing less, check check check dead square---
willy
William Revit

Off Topic, but answering Willy question.
Just letting Willy know that Peter Kerr's TC Roger Rebel, the Clipper Blue TC, RV8 are going to various family members. M Type and FTF have been sold and the NA is currently being sorted and will probably go into the Coolum Museum.

For those who do not know Roger Rebel is a yellow TC with a V8 and road registered.
Stuart



Stuart Duncan

Blimey crikey Willy - that procedure would be fine, except my engine is in situ - checking just now, both my new and old driven gears spin perfectly fine on the original spindle, so I’m tempted to leave the old one in place. Maybe a lick over with a bit of 1200 emery? Interested to know what you think.
Stuart - holy sh...... - what V8 was shoehorned into Peter Kerr’s TC? Is there any footage anywhere, do you know?
Willy - every time I type Willy, my ‘puter autocorrects to Silly. Would you mind changing your name?? Let me know where to email some guff on my TC - or, I’ll put up a seperate thread if you prefer.
John.
J P Hall

John, re Roger Rebel - it has a 5litre RV8 engine - see pg 37 of my car club magazine at https://www.goldcoastmgcarclub.com.au/wp-content/uploads/TM-Dec20-Jan21.pdf

I am told it crashed on Conrod Straight at Mt Panorama doing well over 100kpm (I was told that should be 100mph)

cheers
Stuart
Stuart Duncan

Thank you Stuart for the interesting literature- nice to also see our great friends David and Lynn from Hervey Bay get a Mention. We re truly kindred spirits.
Next drive down south, (motorhome), may we call by?
Tony S mustn’t be paying attention - I thought he’d have a view on the camshaft bearing saga.
John
J P Hall

Off topic--Sorry John

Thanks Stuart
Sounds like it's going to a good home.
I like to think I had a hand in sewing the seed for that car--not that Roger needed motivating at all. i did the original b/w diff conversion for it which is probably long gone by now. And the front axle came from down here as well.
Peter Kerr was a top bloke, Back in i think it was 1992 the natmeet was down here and he had the NA special here.
After the motorkhana he'd loaded it up on the trailer and was tying it down and my son who was 6-7 at the time and full of it, went up to him and said, I'd like a drive of your car, Next thing the car was unloaded and the pair of them went up the road in it, returning with Peter with his arms up in the air and my bloke steering--fantastic memory of the pair of them with smiles wider than their faces.
I believe the only damage the TC got at Bathurst was the fuel tank got dented from the spare wheel pushing into it----and probably Peter's undies. It was down near the chase so he'd have been hooking along.

Back on topic--oil pumps

John, Your computer is probably on the money-with silly, 'tis what it is, they have a way of knowing.
With the shaft, you could have a real good look at it and check for any wear/damage, they're usually ok to reuse, don't get too carried away polishing it up too much though as the gear clearance in the housing relies on the gear's fit on the shaft--maybe clean it up then compare the feel of the new gear on it compared to the fit on the new shaft, If it feels the same and is in good nick it should good to go.

I'll get back to you later about your TC
willy
William Revit

I've done what you suggested Willy, and the spindle that's in the block is fine. I'll keep the new one for when I refresh the TD or the aforementioned TC.
I think the last item before I put everything back in the Y (finally), is chatter marks on one particular cam follower - number 7 I think. But I'll post that separately so as not to bore anyone here. Thanks so much for your help with all this. Very quiet out there otherwise! John.
J P Hall

This thread was discussed between 10/07/2022 and 12/07/2022

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