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MG MG Y Type - Is my engine original to the car?

Where can I find a list showing engines to cars/dates?

Also how can I find if it takes 5 litre or 6 litres of oil without the test?

My chassis is YB 1434 and the engine is C78571

Thanks
K Weeds

Even if you do a drain with the oil hot and leave it to drain for as long as possible there will still be a a surprising amount of the old oil (and muck/crud/debris/contaminants) left in the engine so the dry fill capacity only applies to new or dry rebuilt engine.

As I've just put I add a little new fresh oil and allow that to drain also as a final quick type flush.

Before doing this (if you did/will) you could measure how much oil you drained out of the engine (including from filter or elsewhere) then allowing for spillage and transfer losses this would give you a good idea of refill quantity.

On refill you need to allow for all the oil, that is going to, to reach the sump before checking level. Then you can top up as required, easier to add than subtract.

I'd fill to halfway between min and max and leave it overnight to top up, then check again after the next good run.

Obviously you always want to check for (additional) leaks after refill otherwise the topping up will never end.
Nigel Atkins

Engine number C78571 is a factory replacement engine, so you need to determine which sump is fitted.
If it is the early smaller sump, without ribs, the workshop manual gives the capacity as 9 pints.
If it is the later larger capacity sump with ribs, the workshop manual gives the capacity as 10 pints.
Note they are proper British Imperial pints.

The production records for the YB still exist, and they show what engine was originally fitted into which chassis. The records are held at the (original) MG Car Club in the UK, so you would need to contact them direct or via the Y type Register, which is the relevant section of the MG Car Club. I think you may need to be a member of the club.

An original YB engine number would take the form XPAG/SC2/ followed by a number from 17100 to 18456.
R WILSON

Nigel thanks for those tips.

R Wilson, thats good to hear as I was confused. I think mine has ribs but can you clarify where are the ribs and which way do they run?

The previous owner had the motor rebuilt in the 80's in the UK but he may have purchased another motor to rebuild as the records show how much bore, crank & head was machined so he didn't buy a factory replacement.
K Weeds

Not sure why I put ribs, as I mean cooling fins, and they are on the underside of the sump, running from front to back.
C78571 is a factory replacement (and reconditioned) engine number, so it must have been in another vehicle, from which it was removed and reconditioned a second time, but not by MG.
R WILSON

R Wilson your a legend.

I have a record of when the previous owner (deceased) purchased the rebuild parts and then the details of from the machine shop for the bore and regrind so I guess you are correct although 1953 to 1988 isn't that far apart for an engine to fail and be replaced by a factory rebuild then worn out again by 1988 but who knows.
I'll check my sump tomorrow.

Thanks for your help
K Weeds

Hi K Weed

Can you post a photo of the engine plate showing the C78571. Is there a number stamped into the block above the plate?

Attached is a blurry photo of my "Replacement Engine B 7630" plate and the number stamped into the block.

cheers
Stuart


Stuart Duncan

I cant see a number stamped in the block but two id plates are in the attached pics.

Thanks
Kevin




K Weeds

Yes my motor has fins under the sump so I guess it is the 10 pint version.
K Weeds

Kevin,

The additional plate rivited next to "Replacement Engine" plate shows the specification for your engine.
Put simply Morris took back engines which had problems and rebuilt them as "replacement engines" and your additional plate shows the new engine specifications.

I would assume the original engine # is under the "Replacement Engine" plate.

I should have mentioned the bolt below my "Repalcement Engine" plate is blocking a dipstick hole. I believe my engine was originally out of a Wolseley 4/44 which has the dipstick in that location.

cheers
Stuart
Stuart Duncan

Kevin,
Your original engine in chassis number YB1434 was xpag/sc2/18357 according to the ledger records on the Y-register site of the MG Car Club U.K. I don't know much about Y-types( TF guy myself) but the way to tell the size of the sump on T-types is the smaller sump has a step section at the front of the sump, where the later larger sump comes almost straight down from the round part at the front near the crank pulley.Hope this description helps as it is a bit hard to explain. I don't know if Y-types have the same sump as T-types.
Hope this helps.Cheers.
Ralph.
TF 9181.

P.S The build date for your car was the 15/6/1953.

R E J Stewart

ETA: as often happens with me, I was still typing whilst the previous post was posted, but I think all of my post still applies.

Kevin,
as you probably already know 10 (imperial) pints is 5.68261 litres so neither 5 or 6 litre.

The 'Technical Data for the MG Y Series - YA and YT' (which you may have seen for the 5l or 6l oil capacity) gives the following -

Oil sump capacity - 9 Pints (5.1 litres).

Oil sump capacity (commencing Engine No. XPAG/SC2/17383) - 10.5 Pints (6.0 litres).

Oil filter - Full-flow type.

Which to me means you need more to also fill the oil filter, and a bit more if you do that fresh flush thing.

As you don't really know what your engine is, and neither of above may fully apply, plus I could be wrong about adding more for filter, to my mind you have two options -

a) buy 6 litres as no matter how hot and long you have the drain there will be residue so you should have enough at the very least for a straight drain and refill

b) buy two 5 litres cans and you have plenty for a 6 litres plus possibly filter (and fresh flush thingy) and any top ups required at refill and for top ups with vehicle use until the next engine oil change.

https://www.mg-cars.org.uk/imgytr/techdatayb.shtml
Nigel Atkins

Kevin.
The smaller sump on T-types also has fins, so just because your's has fins doesn't necessarily mean it is large or small.cheers.
Ralph.
R E J Stewart

Kevin,
I missed my second edit, I was going to include this from the info I missed off before -

- NB This data is correct for the MG YB only - not the MG YA or YT!

and this link with you may have already have, or see attached PDF.-
https://www.mg-cars.org.uk/imgytr/pdf/techdatayb.pdf
Nigel Atkins

Kevin,
I've just seen your dipstick thread which bring up another point of having the correct length dipstick and dipstick tube for your engine, whatever it is and however it's been modified.

Obviously you want a reasonable reserve and tolerance to the engine oil level and not always being too close or below the minimum level and too close or above the maximum level so you need a correct dipstick and tube to the engine (and if modified) to give you this information.

Actual owners and users here will know the various engines' tolerances to oil levels, I don't, but I do know you at least want your existing dipstick marked up correctly.

I've also found engines generally like to find their own levels and it takes use of them to give you the experience to know what's about right with them in use so that you know if there's a sudden or more than usual change. Same as with the instrument readings, once what is good normal running is established often the actual numbers don't matter that much as much as the needle is pointing where it normally does.
Nigel Atkins

The smaller T type sump with fins was that fitted to the TB & TC. However, it does not have, and cannot be fitted with, the swivel pins on the sides that are needed for the Y, TD & TF clutch operating system.
The 10.5 pints must be correct for sump and filter, as I checked in another workshop manual, which shows 10.5 pints – I have occasionally found irregularities in workshop manuals.
R WILSON

The 10.5 pints may well be correct for sump and filter (dry fill?) but I'd never say that with certainty because two printed books agree as errors and omissions are often repeated and copied, unless the errors are varied like in say in various editions of a Haynes.

How much goes in does depend on how much residue remains in the engine, at least you know the new filter will be empty and if you've a mind to you could measure its dry fill capacity.
Nigel Atkins

Thanks guys, this post is really bringing in the troops.

So much helpful info.

Ralph - thats great to get the original engine number and interesting that the build date is different to that on YB's on parade which states July 7th?

I think I'll put 5 litres in, run it then let it settle and experiment using 10.5 pints (6 litre) as the target but if what Nigel is saying the dipstick may not be accurate and maybe only to be used as a guide on consumption.

The previous owner kept incredible recorded of everything but I notice on one of the later service schedules at oil change it has printed 9 pints but he has written in pencil above it 10 pints? 11 pints?
so I guess he never nailed the exact amount in his 34 yrs ownership.

Dipstick photo attached

Thanks for all your input guys

Kevin....in locked down NZ



K Weeds

Kevin,
don't let me throw too many spanners in the works about the dipstick, if the engine, sump and dipstick all marry up then it's already marked up correctly.

As for the differing amount of oil that could just have been a typo or it can vary depending on time of year and time and effort given to the drain and refill.

I gave those (to many over the top) ideas for your first drain and refill to give you an idea of probably the maximum you'll use/get in on refill. Hot day, hot and long drain of (very) fully warmed engine and warm fresh oil.

Many just do a cold quick drain and refill, which is fine on a cleaner engine that gets the correct regular oil changes using a good quality oil with a car that's used regularly on reasonably length journeys (20 miles minimum).

Personally on s/h or old car that's new to me I now like to be very thorough with at least the first oil and filter change (after I've checked all the much more important components on the car) then you have a more known starting point.

I used to do 6-monthly oil changes when I used the old "classic" oils but now it's once a year. The last one was last month and due to various interruptions I ended up topping up the level in the dark with the outside light blocked by the bonnet and being lazy I was pouring straight from the 5 litre can (tin for the purists) and hit an air bubble so the oil went either side of the rocker cover. I swore at myself for not leaving it until the next morning when it was going to be bright and warm, it had been one of those days and this was the fitting end to it. 🙃

Good luck with the lockdown, we had many months of it, it can bring some advantages so make the most of those.

Let us know your final fill amount - and if you're like me that'll be less than what came out of the can(s)/bottles.

Nigel Atkins

That's funny Nigel, I've done similar so many times even in the day light.

I've been waiting so long for an oil filter. I had some issues getting a Master cylinder rebuild kit from the UK, had to buy from 4 different suppliers to get my hand on one.
Oil filters the same, purchased 6 from a UK firm weeks ago and I get the feeling they havent even been posted yet.

A friend bought a heap of the exact filters from the previous owners estate and was bringing them down to me last Wednesday. Also on Wed morning I was looking forward to a friend of the previous owner bringing me a selection of spares like brakes, complete dash with all gauges, all windows and surrounds, generator/starters etc THEN 11.59pm Tues night we got locked down, completely unexpected with only a few hours warning.
Bloody Kung Flu!

So the other day I drained it overnight, removed the old filter, washed it out and refitted. The oil in the car is spotless now, not sure when I will do the next change, probably as soon as I get a new filter in my hand.

But I will post exactly how much oil it takes for future reference, could be this week or next month.

Thanks
Kevin
K Weeds

Kevin,
the irony of the spill was that I'd bought an extra 5 litre can as I thought I didn't have enough in the previous can but I did have enough in the previous can. This meant I was generous with my flush thingy to empty the previous can but it didn't empty it - but the spilt oil did so I had to open the new can. Plus it's not cheap oil and I had to clean up the spilt oil from the engine and hard standing.

I can't see the oil on the dipstick at changes as it's so clean - but after the first couple of runs it's much darker and easy to see.

Chase the oil filter provider up as we're having lots of supply problems from the tanker getting stuck, the effects of the general Covid situation and despite what many would deny the results of Brexit. It's so bad that some pubs are having difficulty having beers (and lagers) delivered because of general shortage of drivers. Luckily the small real ale brewers delivery their products themselves so good ales are still available, phew!

Also be aware that we get a lot of piss poor modern made rubbish rubber over here and all the bigger main suppliers sell some (a lot?) of it. I can't say I've had any trouble with master cylinders but I've not bought any rebuild kits.

Whatever the solution is you don't want to risk too much and catch Covid I know a few people who have had it and then have long-Covid. The effects can be debilitating for days or weeks or very many months and possibly lifetime. The thought of not being able to breath is very frightening, it's how some of our agencies torture people.

On the other hand some people didn't even know they had it until tested - it's just the odds, like getting good quality modern made parts for our cars. 🙂

Guess which camp I generally fall in to with modern made car parts. ☹️
Nigel Atkins

The problem with that is how do you know the quality of each suppliers parts?
Wont matter with the master cylinder kit because now I have 2 replacement kits on hand and one more in the post from the UK. Its an easy enough job to rebuild once you get the mongrel thing off the car, since my last job (from lying on my back under the car) I have since removed the floor boards to try to adjust the brake light wire (that was a waste as the brake switch failed so I took it off and re-routed to wire) but next time I remove the floor board (prick of a job) I'll cut an hinged inspection plate so I can lube the pedal shafts, make adjustments plus remove the master without removing the floor boards.

We have no Kung Flu in the South Island...yet but were still locked down.

At least I have 3 Model T's, a 70 Mini and the MG in the sheds to entertain me lol.

Kevin
K Weeds

Kevin,
Mini parts you might have more luck with as Minis are so popular there are enough owners that don't want the cheapest part possible that some parts are made to be good, unlike many parts for MG, Triumphs, etc., tight-fisted owners.

Quite a few Mini parts and the engine parts of course go on to the 1973 Midget I have so I've ordered stuff from Mini Spares and found their selling prices to be lower for the same parts and a few parts they have made at better quality. I also get some parts off Mini Mine Ltd. but like some other companies they show more on their eBay shop, and include P&P, than they do on their own website.

MGOC Spares have a few parts made but do also list original part numbers and send parts that aren't the same as original or on a few parts offer the choice of cheapest or better.

Same for Moss, who many of the smaller suppliers buy from, some parts they have made, some parts they sell are non-original, some piss poor quality, some a choice of cheapest or better.

Rimmer Bros. I've found to at least be more honest about the quality of the parts but I don't think they sell anything specially made for them, but I might be wrong about this.

Lucas is just a brand name now split over at least two different companies, parts quality I've seen is OK but nowhere near as good as original.

Intermotor is now SMPE parts I've seen again OK but not as good as they used to be.

SU parts are OK but again not as good as before and the company is a ball-ache to deal with.

. Mini Spares - http://www.minispares.com/default.aspx

. Minimine Ltd. - https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/minimineltd

Some companies that others have recommended but I've not dealt with. -

NTG Motor Services Ltd. you probably already know well, they seem to do the correct bits but not low priced. - https://www.mgbits.com/

Power Track Ltd. - https://www.powertrackbrakes.co.uk/

Coasting Ltd. - http://www.coastings.co.uk/

Auto & Industrial - https://www.autoandindustrial.co.uk/

Past Parts - http://www.pastparts.co.uk/

I don't know how up to date this is. - https://www.mg-cars.org.uk/imgytr/links.shtml#Suppliers

And at shows there are one-man-bands that do refurb work but only seem to go to shows or do trade work for other suppliers.
Nigel Atkins

Thanks Nigel -
The Mini is finished and on the road, it just needed a bit of brake work, oil change etc as I've had it in storage for 20 years plus I bought it off the original owner and is one of the few 850 minis that is completely stock.
I purchased 3 orders of stuff via "minisport.com" in the UK and was very pleased with all aspects of their service.

MG parts has been different story -

Brake master cylinder
kit 1 - from "MEVSPARES" in Kent.
Bit slow in getting here but good communication although no tracking number, happy with them.

Kit 2 "Past Parts" ordered July 27, no tracking number ...still waiting

Kit 3 "Moss Motors" in California. Brilliant service, plus cheap silicon fluid, flew UPS for $15us (quart of silicon), tracking number supplied, impressed with them and quality looks good.

Kit 4 - "Basis" is a company here in NZ, had a kit in stock, tracking number and arrived here in 24 hrs

Oil Filters - "Peter Edney" from "xpagdevelopments' in the UK had the best price so I ordered a few filters but the worst service. Delay in getting stock (no problem with that) but after ignoring 3 emails finally replied with a promise to get back to me with tracking number last Tuesday (8 days ago).....still nothing.

It is a learning curve. I've purchased some more MG bits from Moss Motor usa that I don't need yet but if I have the bits here and something wears out at least I can fix without steering out the window wishing for a courier van every day lol.

Thanks for your detailed reply I'm sure it will help others as well.

Kevin


K Weeds

Kevin,
you were well ahead of me and silly me I was thinking only of UK suppliers so Moss Europe not Moss in USA who look like they might have better made parts than we get over here.

Mini Sport I've seen but I'm used to the other two. Nice Mini. I sometimes see a 90s Mini on the road but very rarely a 70s. I think you you might like this video about a 1959 850. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjnV1gDudko&t

Generally USA is the place for oil filters as they have a habit of oil shops doing oil changes every 3,000 miles, no idea what they'd make of our once a year or 20,000 miles for moderns, no wonder they crave so much oil production.

But Europe has a few of manufactures, some with various brand names going on each production run.

Some who run their own businesses do so because they can't be told what to do and/or prefer telling others, often these people aren't the best communicators - I'm not say this about Peter Edney as I know zero about him or his business, just a name I've seen in posts here, I didn't even know he had a business. Over here many businesses seem reluctant or unable to communicate, particularly bad news, and just seem to deal with who moans or shouts first. There are of course many exceptions and automated systems that keep customers informed.
Nigel Atkins

Some good points Nigel.

The Mini was a one owner when I got it, the lady purchased it new in 1970 to immigrate to NZ with. Inside is like new as she never had any kids and claimed the back seat hadn't be used. Still original unmodified.
Drives like a new mini.
Nice talking, I'll check out that link

Thanks
Kevin
K Weeds

This thread was discussed between 20/08/2021 and 25/08/2021

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