MG-Cars.info
MG MG Y Type 'Little Gem' BBS discussion at MG-Cars.info
MG-Cars.info
Welcome to our Site for MG, Triumph and Austin-Healey Car Information.
Parts
MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.
|
|
MG MG Y Type - 'Little Gem'
| There is a 'diary' about a 1953 MG YB black saloon car that has been left in a Will to the MGCC. Tim Penicott passed away earlier this year leaving his YB to the club. It is to be used for publicity and giving foriegn visitors a tour of the old MG test runs around Abingdon. But the car was only 75% completed in terms of getting it roadworthy. So the MGCC Y Register volunteered to sort it out over a fortnight so the car could be driven to the NEC in November in time to be displayed on the club stand. You can follow the things we found and how they were sorted out on the Y Register web site < ww.mgytypes.org>, go to Interesting Ys, then YB Restorations and click on YB1170. The car was christened 'Little Gem' by Suzie Arnell, and the title fits the car very well. |
| Neil Cairns |
| Peter Vielvoye It was sad to hear your update to Y members today. I quote.... "However I do have one bit of rather disappointing news from Kimber House, they have decided to sell Little Gem and are asking for sealed bids. If you are interested she is excellent in the mechanical and body departments with a very nippy performance but the wiring and interior do need some attention." Why is the club deciding to sell an asset it was left so kindly by Tim? Surely as Y Register members maintained the car from time to time it cost the club little to run, and surely was an asset to the club to keep for future members to admire and use. The club seems to have grand plans for expansion but seems unable to keep a car with no cost to tax, no cost to MOT and relative cheap to insure. Is there any other reason behind this or can members appeal to get this decision re-considered? |
| R E Knight |
| Update, a club staff member advised me this was club board decision. I'll be intrigued to know decision making behind why to sell club asset that is ambassador for our model at events and good PR. |
| R E Knight |
| I would hope that the club board has already offered to return the car at no cost to the Penicott Family in the first instance - then, and only then, should it be offered for sale. I don't understand the need for "sealed bids" ?. Maybe the Octagon Car Club will submit a bid ?. Tony MGCC Member #121065 |
| A L SLATTERY |
| I recall Paul Barrow's off-line explanation of his reasons for leaving MGCC. This shows that the Club has no interest in Y Types. I am seriously considering my future membership as I derive little benefit from it. At least with the Octagon CC, you get a discount on spares. Perhaps the bequest to the Club was misguided. I would like to suggest that the Club retains ownership of the car as this was clearly the wish of the benefactor, but puts it on permanent loan to a reputable museum to be displayed for all to see. Perhaps the Oxford Bus Museum, which also houses the Morris Motors Museum in Oxford. Mike |
| M Long |
| We would like to add our voice of concern about this " Board " decision. We knew Tim well for many years from the mid 1970's onward - We borrowed Little Gem for our honeymoon as our y was yet again in the garage. Tim was a real gentleman with deeply held views and we are sure that he would not have been happy with the news that the club intend to sell. We are sure that his bequest was made with the intention of furthering interest in the model which historically the club have always undervalued. Decisions made by the club board should be made in club members interests and I can see nowhere have any Y register members been consulted on this. One of the reasons we bowed out of the club years ago was lack of transparency in the running of the club and clique interests behind closed doors. We would ask - Why sealed bids? ( no transparency) and what exactly do the club think they will benefit by this and more importantly what are they going to do with the proceeds? Are they so short of money that they need to sell off donated assets? We are sure the Y Register members could continue to look after Tims car as he would have wished. We would be more than happy to help with this. Paul & Maggie Grafham |
| P M Grafham |
| Mike, I wonder how many others feel the same as you, considering their future membership? |
| R E Knight |
| Mike Long's post about Paul Barrow leaving the MGCC, and the club having little interest in the 'Y' series, just underlines anecdotal remarks that I've heard more than once. That is, the 'Y' is nothing more than a good donor to keep TD's on the road. What a magnanimous gesture it would have been if, with The Penicott family's permission, 'Little Gem' had been onward donated to the newly refurbished Motor Museum at Gaydon. The 'Y' model has a unique place in MG's history, being of pre-war design, but post war produced. 'Little Gem,' displayed at the museum, with a précis of the marque's history, is a golden opportunity missed. |
| R Taylor |
| The Y Register committee met on Sunday for a quarterly meeting and the Board’s decision to sell Little Gem was discussed at some length and with passion, as a result our thoughts were conveyed to Ian Qarrington the Chairman of the Board of Club Directors. Together with previous emails and social media reaction we have caused a change of heart. I am now very pleased to tell you that Ian has told us that he has changed his Chairman’s notes in next Month’s SF and will now be saying that he is in discussion with the Y Register over the future of Little Gem. We will be doing our very best to ensure the most appropriate future for Little Gem. Peter MGCC Y Register |
| Peter Vielvoye |
| Great News, thank you Peter. Cheers Tony |
| A L SLATTERY |
| This is a better outcome, obviously still not 100% decided so let's hope before any decisions are made, members get to hear first. Richard |
| R E Knight |
| Excellent news - Let us hope that Tim's wishes will prevail. Paul & Maggie Grafham |
| P M Grafham |
| That a good outcome indeed. That said you can argue about the wisdom of bequeathing any classic car to any car club that isn't equipped to take care of cars? A museum may be better, but only just; I've seen many such cars looking forlorn in dark corners. I think it may be better to sell such cars on the open market to give other enthusiast a chance to enjoy it. (not Little Gem given it's recent history....) |
| Willem van der Veer |
| Marc, Seeing the MG Show Room in London made me think perhaps "Little Gem" could be displayed in the showroom to promote history of the marque, or pehaps on second thoughts it would detract customers attention to MG GS onto YB. LOL |
| R E Knight |
| Donating or selling your car, no matter what your wishes or intentions may have been, your control over the future of the car is gone - even museum's purge their stock from time to time. Sad, but true. |
| Paul R Barrow |
| I tend to agree that cars should be "in the market" for other enthusiasts to "look after" and enjoy for a period. I have seen many cars languishing unloved in museums. Incidentally, Gaydon of course have Len Shaw's old works rally YB. It is no longer on display - not even in the new reserve collection building. So I doubt they would ever have been interested in Little Gem. In fact I expect them to "purge" their stock at some point - if they do it would be nice to add Len's YB to my maroon 1952 sporting YB collection! In defence of the club, I seem to recall that Little Gem was stored in the area that is now the new extension and the site is very tight. I expect they are also silently terrified of being inundated with bequeathed MGBs.. So I think selling Little Gem (if the family don't want it back)is probably the right thing to do, with the funds being used for a significant investment. Maybe going towards the sorely needed new archive. Sealed bids was a terrible idea - always smells fishy and results in a poor sale price. |
| Marc Hanson |
| Since reference was made to Little Gem by Brian Rainbow and others in his deserved congratulatory note to Marc's outstanding efforts in the MM I thought that the latest position on the future of Little Gem should be noted as far as the Y Register is aware. At our AGM which was well attended and held prior to the Spring Run the issue of Little Gem was discussed at length with some solid proposals made to the Board.The Directors did check up on the terms of the will and this left the car to the MGCC to use, sell or dispose of as they saw fit. They also had an MGB left to them as well and this was sold some years ago. LG was used regularly by Kimber House but had become unroadworthy as it needed a complete rewire. Following on from detailed feedback from the Y Register and users of this Bulletin Chairman Peter Veilvoye wrote to Ian Quarrington outlining the course of action that it was felt that should be adopted. These were: - an acceptance (albeit reluctant)of the Boards intention to sell the car (as Tim's Will clearly stated - that the sale should be open and above board and not through sealed bids - that the car be taken to MG Live 4th and 5th June 2016 and displayed for sale - that the proceeds be used for a specific project ( or towards one) and not into the general funds of the Club - That a painting be commussioned by MGCC and placed on display in Kimber House I am pleased to say that all these have been agreed by the MGCC Board which is encouraging. I would like to give Ian Quarrington some praise as having realised that he and the Board had made a nonumental cock up in their lack of PR with one of their own Registers that he rescued it Not often I praise the heirarchy at MGCC but on this occasion one at least deserves some plaudits even though the process was hideoudly handled at the outset! So there we are hopefully Little Gem will have a caring new home in the future and an especial thanks to Neil Cairns who has done a splendid job over the last 6-7 years. It is mechanically excellent and will make a superb YB in the future! Hope this clarifies matters. All the best Jerry |
| Jerry Birkbeck |
| I gather that Little Gem was indeed sold at Silverstone to a good friend of the MG Y Register. I was away when all this happened and was unaware of the news until tonight. I do now know who the new owners are but until it is made public it would inapproprate to name them. Though I can confirm that they are indeed good friends and its great news to hear as they are indeed extremely symapthetic to the promotion of the Y models. A happy outcome. Jerry |
| Jerry Birkbeck |
| Always good to hear our cars are moving on to new good homes Jerry. Please be sure to ask them to kindly update the IMGYTR too by registering their ownership with us as soon as they wish. Clearly we do not share that information in public either, unless they wish to share the car with everyone on Ys on Parade. Paul |
| Paul Barrow |
| Jerry, This quote I've copied from your post today on thread title "Another Monte Done" However, in fairness Ian Quarrington the Chairman is cut from a different cloth and is doing a difficult and trying job well. He listened and acted upon our concerns over the disposal of Little Gem with diplomacy and has changed some outmoded practices with determination and fairness. You state Ian Quarrington listened and acted on the Y register concerns. Exactly how please? The register expressed they were against the sale, but it didn't change the bottom line "Little Gem" was sold. On 24th May you posted... an acceptance (albeit reluctant)of the Boards intention to sell the car (as Tim's Will clearly stated - that the sale should be open and above board and not through sealed bids - that the car be taken to MG Live 4th and 5th June 2016 and displayed for sale - that the proceeds be used for a specific project ( or towards one) and not into the general funds of the Club - That a painting be commussioned by MGCC and placed on display in Kimber House The second quote should be open and above board and not through sealed bids, unless I've missed it, what did it actually sell for because I doubt members ever got to know the price the car sold for. Also where have the funds actually been spent? suggestions were for towards a new archive but how about something to benefit Y's such as manufactor costs towards parts not currently available, that will then directly benefit Y Types and their owners. Finally you say he has changed outmoded practices with determination and fairness, can you tell members like me exactly what you mean with examples? Richard |
| R E Knight |
| In response to your queries Richard please note the following. 'How did Ian Quarrington (MGCC Chairman) respond to the Y Register’s concerns?' He had intended to mention in his editorial that 'Little Gem’ was being sold and this without any initial correspondence with the Register. The amount of disquiet at this action was raised through e-mail exchanges within the Register and comments raised on social media and in particular through the Bulletin. He could have chosen to ignore this as it was pointed out that Tim Pennicott had willed the car to the MGCC together with an MGB and to use the funds as the MGCC Board thought appropriate. However, the Board back in 2009 decided to sell the MGB and retain Little Gem and members of the Register went to view the car and Neil Cairns kindly agreed to maintain it. During those early years Little Gem (the name that Suzie Arnell christened it on being present at that first viewing!) was used by Kimber House for transporting visitors around Abingdon and taking the car to Events and Shows and helping to raise the profile of the Y. Times change and in early 2016 the Board decided to sell the car. Ian Quarrington listened to us and changed his ideas and those of the Board to carry through the various actions that the Register set out. That is to say - That the car would notb be auctioned by sealed bids - That the car would be taken for viewing and auction at MG Live on the 4th and 5th June 2016 - That a painting would be commissioned and placed on display at Kimber House We had also requested that the proceeds of the sale be used for a specific project and not absorbed in the general funds of the MGCC In fairness to Ian the first three actions were undertaken and I have no idea what Little Gem was sold for or how the proceeds have been used. This is a matter that you will need to take up with Ian Quarrington. You mentioned that the proceeds should be used 'to benefit Y's such as manufacturing costs towards parts not currently available that will then directly benefit Y Types and their owners'. You will no doubt be fully aware that the MG Car Club does not manufacture any parts for any MG. This is because of product liability. However, Y’s are well supported by the MG Octagon Club, the MG Owners Club and suppliers – notably NTG. The MGCC Y Register does supply a range of parts in its shop that are included as regalia items and which we have commissioned and which are difficult to obtain and otherwise unavailable. These do not include any fundamental parts such as transmission, steering, brakes, and mechanical and electrical items etc all of which require product liability, which the MGCC will not endorse. Nonetheless, if you could list those parts which you feel should be manufactured and which fit within the criteria already mentioned then please raise this with Ian. You have then asked me for examples where Ian has made changes in outmoded practices with determination and fairness. I look at some of the changes and reviews that he has initiated in respect of MG Live! His willingness to listen and work with Registers. His updating of MGCC’s presence at major events such as the Classic Car Show and his willingness to listen. That may not sound very much to you but running any Club is not an easy task and Car Club’s are no exception. I think that the MGCC has shifted its thinking a little and whilst there is an emphasis on racing (which is covered in the Owner’s Club as well), under Ian’s guidance it has become more responsive to concerns and he does listen and act upon matters raised with him. However, if you have an issue with MGCC and its treatment of the Y then as a member of MGCC it is up to you to raise your concerns directly with Ian. It is very easy to criticise and in these days it is very common on social media. We may disagree with the way many things are organised and run in life, but sitting in front of a screen and moaning is surely not the way? One has to take responsibility for ones actions and to raise concerns and if these are not met to your satisfaction then contact those whom you believe may be able to change things. It’s not easy and if everything was then we would live in an entirely different world. I have e-mailed this to Ian Quarrington and that will give you a direct entry into having some of your queries discussed and hopefully resolved. I trust you will also include some suggestions as to how matters could be run better. Sincerely Jerry |
| Jerry Birkbeck |
| Jerry, Having considered all sides of this very carefully, and the comments of other former members of MGCC Y Register like Brian Mellam, the late David Pelham, Paul Barrow, I too will decide to let my membership subscription lapse in November in favour of other clubs, my views are no longer represented or shared by MGCC or the MGCC Y Register (especially given the the former continued subsidy of Racing) I will keep a watchful eye on the removal of the content I did not give express permission for the MGCC Y Register to publish, having asked question of Neil in his capacity as Octagon Car Club Technical Rep. This is another polite request, and I do hope it is actioned promptly without further delay. See you at Brooklands Richard |
| R E Knight |
| I sense a communal sigh of relief at your news Richard. I suggest you write to Neil about your request as he does not follow this blog. May I point out that the old Technical questions page at the Octagon has been replaced by a panel of experts including Neil to improve turn around time, they answer questions direct and they are then published in their Bulletin. It is not even considered that a question is asked in confidence. Peter |
| Peter Vielvoye |
| Peter, "I sense a communal sigh of relief at your news Richard" My pleasure! Peter, you sound like a typical politician, one that can never answer a straight question or simply reply to a polite request without putting up blockers. I ask for the removal of information from your MGCC Y Register website which I did not give permission to be published. Correct me if I'm wrong but you are the Chairman, empowered to get this sort of thing resolved, who also stated that it was your daughter who updates the MGCC Y Register website. Please explain to me quite how it is beyond you to resolve this quite simple request, instead passing the buck to tell me to speak to Neil,and going off tangent about Octagon Car Club bulletin. I see in your latest newsletter you are urging owners to provide your club and website with information on cars, if a owner were later to ask for removal of the said data I dread to think how round the houses they would need to go before and if ever it got removed. I would suggest to owners to think long and hard before sending any data to MGCC Y Register if treated in this way. Richard |
| R E Knight |
| Richard FYI, the Inter. MG Y Type Register "Ys on Parade" and elsewhere on the website has the same policy. When I advised that a particular YT had been sold some years ago and asked the entry be changed, it was stated: "Once a car is entered on Ys on Parade, the entry becomes the intellectual property and copyright of the IMGYTR and we do not remove cars from the parade." and "The entry can only be updated by the new owner, with the new owner's details ..... when the new owner submits an updated." I believe a comment by the Registrar could be added to the entry informing viewers that the car has since been sold etc. This would save potential false lead enquiries, as I experienced. cheers Stuart |
| Stuart Duncan |
| Stuart, Thanks for the reply, but in my case it was an email to one of the technical leads "Neil Cairns" where I was asking for some advice. Please tell me where the policy of the MGCC Y Register has this same policy published, confirming that they will use questions asked of Neil in his capacity as either the MGCC Y Register or the Octagon Car Club technical lead that gives them copyright?, if you can point me to this then fair cop, they might have an argument at the moment I am unaware of such a clause and also it was in private email to someone who I know through club meets in the past and was sent to them for advice not then to be used as material for the MGCC Y Register benefit. The fact content of an email can be published by third party without the express permission of the sender or the receiver is breach of an act of UK law, hence I await their response. Richard |
| R E Knight |
| Richard I am not a member of MGCC Y Register and hardly ever go onto their website. However, doing a quick search, I could not find any statement on their website concerning copyright. I note the IMGYTR website has a statement that states: "Any and all contributions made by you to the site are greatly appreciated, however, once submitted any and all submissions become the property of the International MG Y Type Register. Any data on your car, voluntarily submitted via the Registration process, submission to Ys on Parade, or in email correspondence may be used by the International MG Y Type Register." Stuart |
| Stuart Duncan |
| Stuart, All I ask is the post be deleted, I can move on and so can the thread is it that hard? When they claim to support and help owners, it is something private about my car that I don't want published. Cheers Richard |
| R E Knight |
| Stuart, Correct, the IMGYTR are correct and therefore doing things correctly, when talking about submission of cars onto Y's on parade. Richard |
| R E Knight |
| Stuart, And further copied from IMGYTR is in reference to technical help. http://www.mg-cars.org.uk/imgytr/technical.shtml Email our Technobods (Tony Slattery and Paul Barrow) here with your query. You should hopefully receive a reply within a few days. Your email query, and the response may be anonymously published here for others to reference with your consent. What does the last word of their disclaimer say...Consent. Richard |
| R E Knight |
| I note that the item covering Cooling Issues on the MGCC Y Register Website has now been removed. Cheers Jerry |
| Jerry Birkbeck |
| Jerry, Noted, with thanks, a deep shame it took so many post emails to action. Cheers Richard |
| R E Knight |
| Richard Can I point out that if this statement of yours is true "it is something private about my car that I don't want published." Then you should have simply emailed me directly and I would have removed it straight away, as I offered to last time you asked me to remove something from FB. Then the world would not have been looking intrigued to find out this secret of yours. Your motive was of course the usual. You really do show yourself up on this bulletin. Peter |
| Peter Vielvoye |
| Peter, This issue was first raised on 12 February, removed on 18th February, Ill let others judge if you would have removed content with email. Certainly took 18 pointless posts for you to do correct thing, after telling me to contact Neil, for him to say he would contact you as website is nothing to do with him..I suppose that was your kind of joke to wind me up? Like I said to Jerry, thanks for its removal time to move on. Richard |
| R E Knight |
This thread was discussed between 07/11/2009 and 20/02/2017
MG MG Y Type index
This thread is from the archives. Join the live MG MG Y Type BBS now