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MG MG Y Type - SEAT BELTS

Has anyone experience of fitting seat belts other than to an untrimmed shell, as Roy Clapham describes in his article elsewhere on the site.
The chap who bought my Y tells me he intends to fit some, and has a kit from NTG but I fear that he may have more trouble than he realises. NTG offer no info. and say they have nevere fitted belts to a Y.

Michael
Michael Nicholson

Michael,

No experience , but question why anyone would want to? Without the rest of the car having matching safety features seems little point, if one wants belt and like safety features (airbags etc) go buy modern car.

Safety features help but teaching people to drive in accordance to road conditions, observe speed limits would be much better start, and finally punish those that flout road laws by proper punishments.
R E Knight

I concur totally with Richard's sentiments to be honest concerning other drivers etc. I do not have them in any of my MG Ys or ZA even. This does make me also more alert when I am driving to closely watch and anticipate for all other drivers around me too.

Fully realize though Michael the car is not yours now and that you are asking on behalf of the new owner. Perhaps he should be the one posting here then we can all get to meet him.

Also as Richard says, without a lot of other modifications, seat belts of themselves will be not much more than a comfort factor to the individuals wearing them as far as over all personal safety goes and could possibly be a hazard to impede exiting the car after an accident. He is however absolutely correct in that there is a lot of stripping down that has to be done prior to fitting them to proper anchorage points and there is no short cut on that. Perhaps therein lies much of the truth as to why I have never considered fitting them myself too! Is the juice really worht the squeeze? Well to some, the answer is clearly yes, for me it is a big Nah!

Your friend, Michael, does though have a big job ahead of him if he wants to fit them and that is the bottom line really. Sorry to be the harbinger of bad news to him. Whether he fits them or not though, we will be very happy to welcome him to the wonderful world of MG Y ownership.

Happy and safe travelling one and all,

Paul
Paul Barrow

Many years ago my wife was travelling in the front passenger seat of the YA when a cyclist suddenly changed direction in front of the car. In a flash I realised that crash braking at 1g would harm her, fortunately however just in time the cyclist realised my car was coming. It must not be underestimated the power of the drum brakes on dry roads and passengers could suffer bad injuries, just take a look at the woodwork in front of the passenger. I fitted belts back and front after that incident so that I would have the confidence to take whatever action needed without worrying about my passengers. I also suggest that if for any reason the car was involved in a multiple accident or turns over it is likely that the doors will burst open, so with belts fitted everyone should be secure. Its not a matter of hitting a massive concrete block at 40mph it is about taking sensible precautions where one can. Bryan
B Mellem

There are companies out there that will do it for you - you can do it provided you fit plates to the body around the seat area (I have done this for rear seat belts)with a top mount on the parcel shelf- they will not be as good as modern ones but I am told should be OK for speeds of 40mph and maybe above but either way will offer some measure of protection. Front ones are more problematic but if anchored to the chassis and roof area (roof one needs a plate welding into the roof) will offer a lot better than nothing. There is an article on this site about doing it...Neil Wakeman of Melbourne (Aus)has made a nice job of it on his car (front belts) and I am sure he would let you know how. One other thing you can do (I saw an example of this many years ago)re side impacts is to bolt on a piece of curved angle iron to the chassis mounting area so that the piece runs alongside the door area. Again its better than nothing and is removable There are all sorts of theories about retro fitting stuff but in my opinion something (usually)better than nothing and I never go above 45mph any way. As Paul says its a matter of individual choice and opinion.
D MULLEN

I agree with Bryan the fitting of seatbelts is an added safety precaution which can only have positive results. You hope you will never need them,but on today's congested roads in the UK it is a protection I prefer to have. Having seatbelts fitted in my TD has already saved my wife from head butting the dashboard when some young lad pulled out from a side street into my path, fortunately I managed to stop with 12" to spare.

As I am carrying out a body off resto I have modified the chassis and body as per Roy Clapham's superb instructions, but at the end of the day there is no right or wrong just individual preference. Whats important is that we are all saving our cars from the scrapheap for future generations!!!!!!!

safety first or should that be Safetyfast!
Chris
C A Pick

I'm with Richard on this one, as I have expounded at length on an earlier thread. If you want the so called benefits of a modern car, buy one.

A classic car should be enjoyed for what it is - a pleasure from a bygone age, warts and all. I believe that the safety features in a modern car can lull drivers into a false sense of security and consequently, they drive without the care that they should. I count myself in this category. I drive with much more care and anticipation when in my classics than I do in my everyday car.

I think Willem remarked in the earlier thread that he remembers nothing of trips in his modern car, but every inch of those in his Y.

Enjoy the classic for what it is!

Mike
M Long

Brian
Have you got any details of the way that you fitted them, that I can pass on?
Whether or not one thinks they should or shouldn't be fitted, I'd like to pass on what info. that I can.

Michael
Michael Nicholson

Michael The belts I fitted were purchased in the 70s and although still serviceable predate the inertia real so may not help you, however I will take a few pictures and post them. Also I fitted belts to the rear seats for the protection of our young children after my sister sustained a nasty bruise to her head by hitting the steal frame of the front seat. Again this was caused by a 'death or glory' cyclist! I appologise if I seem to preach but thats how I see things, and after driving and motorcycling for nearly 60 years I am convinced many drivers nowadays look upon the highway code as a joke, and some think nothing of flouting red traffic lights, yes driving is worse now and the performance of the modern car has made them more dangerous. Bryan
B Mellem

The pictures show the front belt fixtures, the b post floor mounting is bolted to chassis bracket below the plywood floor. The rear centre floor mounting is bolted to the tube cross member bracket below the floor. The upper b post fixture is strong enough to support at least 100Kg which is OK for me. These were fitted in the 1970s but never tested in any accident. Bryan

B Mellem

The rear belt mountings were to fit a diagonal belt with strengthening plates below, a third point fixing could be made by drilling into the wheel arch at seat level

B Mellem

Brian

Many thanks. I'll pass on the pictures to the present owner.

Michael
Michael Nicholson

This is something that I have thought about over the years. I entirely agree with Chris and those who make the point about safety.

Back in 1999 I was travelling with Jo to Bourton on the Water for our Spring Run along a wide road in the middle of Leamington Spa. I was in my then newly acquired TA.

The road was clear and about 40 netres before a junction I could see a car to my left waiting to cross the road. I got closer and was driving at 30 mph when with less than 20 metres the driver, who could clearly see me, pulled straight out infront of me. We collided. Jo's head hit the windscreen, I hit the steering wheel and the car was a mess - and of course we were not wearing seat belts!

Car was rebuilt and our bruises went - did I fit any belts after that? Well no, though on reflection I ought to have done so.

Interestingly on the YT the former owner has fittws rear seat belts and I'll forward a pic of the securing arrangements. Will I fit belts on the front -again something that I ought to consider. It is alos something that is a priority for the MGA that replaced the TA.

We fit arrangements like high level brake lights, flashers etc so that we can be seen by the prats that drive on the roads - so this is a sensible step as well. Whilst I do accept that it is each to his own I do think that relying on semaphores and hand signals, as indeed does happen amongst some classic car drivers, is a high risk strategy as most drivers who are following just dont have a clue what's happenning.

But each to his own.

Jerry
J P BIRKBECK

I'm not too fussed about fitting seat belts, I don't intend to have an acident and even if the worst happened I'm not sure that any system available would be effective.
What does concern me is the legality of carrying my grandchildren, my 7yr old grandson loves to travel in the front, but mindful of the Safety Police he has to travel in the back (the pull down centre armrest is magical to him, his dads car has nothing like it!!)
He is big enough to travel in the front, but......
any thoughts?
D P Jones

David

As far as I was brought up, travelling in the front seat was a privilege not a right, so I would say it is up the minor to respect that and behave at any age, the responsibility of the driver to discern when that privilege is granted … and also when it is removed. From memory, I think I was about 5 when I first travelled up front in any car, and sometimes I forfeited it! Provided it is impressed upon the child it is up to you. Here in Washington State, the minor has to be 14 years old minimum (I think - not having kids I always check it when carrying them ... then forget it when not!).

Not much help, so good luck!

Paul
Paul Barrow

David,

http://www.childcarseats.org.uk/carrying_safely/carrying_safely.htm

Yes, I know there are no belts in Y Types but useful info

Richard
R E Knight

Thank you Richard for the link to the info, very helpful for the post 56 M.G. fitted with all the safety features, but is it legal to carry a child in the front of the Y ?
D P Jones

Just a point here that any child seat attached only to the main seat is only as safe as the screws holding the seat runners to the wood floor. Another concern is that in applying max braking that small catch locking the seat to the runners could give way if its not been inspected for wear.
Bryan
B Mellem

Bryan

Also of concern in a high speed impact, and likely to cause more injury than the adjustment catch coming loose is the prospect of the seat runners breaking loose from the wood floor boards if and when they snap under loading too. The catch only locks the seat from farward/backwards adjustment position. It does not secure the seat to the car in any other way. That is dealt with via the four bolts through the seat frame into the floor runners, and the eight screws to T bolts securing the runners to the plywood floor.

Paul
Paul Barrow

From the correspondence related to this topic I may have given the impression that I fitted seat belts because of my rather cavalier approach to driving. Perhaps I may relate an incident on a Friday night in 1975. We were travelling across the Cotswolds in the Anglia when suddenly a drunk driver pulled out from a pub car park in front of us. Fortunately we hit at a glancing impact taking off the nearside wing, and since I usually try to anticipate hazards I had slowed down, we including the our children were safely strapped in. That was in 1975 and since then had no more than a few sleight nudges. I purchase my first motorcycle in 1954 and since have never had a speeding fine or a conviction. Yes I do expect to have an accident which keeps me alert to others on the road. I'm no paragon of virtue and admitt to occasionly loosing my temper but I do seem to sense when to back off. Bryan
B Mellem

David,

I would ill advise a young child sitting in front seat of Y Type and in any event the back too.

Unlike some countries the UK does not have an minimum age they go by the height/weight, if the child were over 135cm the height for sitting in front seat with belt then should not be a problem in front of Y Type, as without belt fitted lawful to drive without.

Richard
R E Knight

This thread was discussed between 03/05/2012 and 19/05/2012

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