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MG MG Y Type - To Pay or Not to Pay

Value of Club Membership.

It's simple to ask are you a club member?

There should be differential pricing structure for register events and support. (Some registers already do this.)

Online forums should not be a free source of advice for non club members.
Non club members can view discussions.
Only members can take part in discussions.

Above direct quotation from document on the MGCC car club members section titled "Membership of Registers dated October 2015 Bill Silcock.

As MGCC member I am intrigued to know what forums are run by the MGCC where non members or members benefit? To my knowledge the last forum closed and was never resurected?

Secondly if there was such a forum why limit it to club members "only" posting on discussion thread. Some of the best ideas I have seen on the MG Enthusiasts bulletin here, comes from across the pond and downunder, really are Y owners in far across lands going to subscribe to MGCC UK just to have the priviledge to take part in a forum?

R E Knight

Interesting posting Richard.

I don't think any forums are now run by the MGCC as the last one was closed down 3 years ago (or thereabouts) as far as I am aware.

The reason was never mentioned to my knowledge though it did involve a great anount of interest when it was running. Though increasingly it became a 'political forum'. (No not mainstream politics - which would have been interesting! - but Car Club politics) and it seemed to close down around the time the CC wensite was hacked and crashed.

Frankly why would any register in the marque range choose to have their own forum when, as you imply, the breadth of discussion points raised across the spectrum of MG ownership in their respective Bulletin Boards is so well covered by the MG Enthusiasts Bulletin Board?

However, the Owners Club do indeed have their own forums though you have to be a member to participate. The reality is of course any such discussion board has to be monitored, which would disuade some organiations from providing such a facility.

You are probably correct about overseas memebers joining the MGCC UK, although I guess that nost use their own links with their home union.I am unsure as to how each of the principle MG Clubs cater for this.


All the best

Jerry
Jerry Birkbeck

Jerry,

I currently subscribe to all three of the main clubs, Octagon, Owners and Car Club, like many others I guess.

I also went to my local Owners club AGM on Tuesday for the first time, and the below three points cropped up in debate. Like many clubs I think they all battle with the same three points as a similar issue.

1. How to encourage more membership.

2. How to attract a younger audience.

3. Whether to publish a digital only newsletter, both or just Print.

For resource and information you cannot beat the International MG Y Register www.mgytypes.org or the MG T Types at ttypes.org websites, which are both free to join and non affiliated to either of the three main clubs, both attracting a large following and wide input of articles from owners.

The only benefits I see from the three clubs are the events that are organised, spares reproduced and sold (Octagon Club) and that is really it. The clubs should offer events such as restoration courses and better support for helping the owner in my view, tangible things that web based only club sites can't do. To create a service already successfully done like BBS isn't actually needed.

R E Knight

I don't disagree with you and the points raised in your local owners club are entirely consistent with the concerns of all car clubs.

What you miss out of course is that the IMGYR is NOT a club but through the bulletin provided by Mike Plumstead's MG Enthusiasts site it enables owners and interested parties to share ideas and information. Moreover, as far as I am aware the IMGYR does not organise any events in the UK.

Totally T Type 2 is rather different it has attracted many folk who are members of the various Clubs, or not and not only provide an on line facility run by John James, who does an outstanding job, but also, at a cost a hard copy of the bi monthly on-line magazine. Moreover John arranges tours and produces a number of spares. Whist the coverage is world wide the trips are in the UK and are very quickly subscribed.

If you bother to read the Octagon Bulletin you will note that we are indeed encouraging the development of informal groups and are working hard to provide a better service for members. You have to appreciate that organising a 'restoration course' is a time consuming and costly business. The MGCC T Register has run an annual 'resto' event for some years and it has changed significantly largely due to health and safety, litigation, insurance and other matters.

It's not quite as straightforward as you might think. I think it’s fair to say that the Natters which clubs organise are often arranged as a joint event with the three principal clubs in the UK. Like many it depends entirely upon the enthusiasm of the organiser. Brian Rainbow (the Chair of the Octagon) has arranged a monthly meeting in South Warwickshire for many years, he provides a newsletter for each meeting, arranges a mid week gathering and many other things. Besides this he also includes the time and date of all other classic car meets in the area. The average monthly attendance is 20-25 and they are always well supported. Brian is a guy who ticks all the boxes in awareness raising and promoting the brand something that he carries on enthusiastically since he has successfully improved the Octagon.

It is up to individuals Richard. If you want some of the activities that should be provided, in your view, by the Clubs that you are a member of then the answer is very simple, contact the local branch, offer your support and run an event or whatever. They will be delighted and I would have thought welcome you with open arms. If they aren't then contact the main club Chair!

Very simple really - though I don't think that it’s something that IMGYR can provide - do you? If so then I would be interested to hear!

Sincerely

Jerry
Jerry Birkbeck

Jerry,

Your comment "If you bother to read the Octagon Bulletin you will note that we are indeed encouraging the development of informal groups and are working hard to provide a better service for members. You have to appreciate that organising a 'restoration course' is a time consuming and costly business. The MGCC T Register has run an annual 'resto' event for some years and it has changed significantly largely due to health and safety, litigation, insurance and other matters".

I do avidly read the Bulletin and have seen the ideas from the Octagon club which are all positive. Whilst restoration course may be costly and not simple to arrange, I was just giving an example of something I think that would benefit owners and encourage younger audience.

My point on the IMGYTR is that it holds more source of data for Y Type than any other place or source of reference so if it's pure information required and nothing else why join a club? Of course the IMGYTR could arrange meetings why not? But why step in and cover something that is already done by other clubs? Also as you know a lot of the sources of information come from other countries besides the UK.

You are correct it is always down to enthusiastic volunteers, that is life, but unfortunately you need two types of members. Organisers and the attendees, due to work committments etc I would be later "attendee" as I could not commit with shift work to organise an event and then find I have to work and let down an event for example by my availability.


R E Knight

Hello Jerry,
I cannot speak for everyone in the IMGYTR, but as the Down Under Rep for many years, and the founder of the Australian Y-Type Register in 1991, I can assure you we did/do organise events - they may not be as regular as one would like, but they do happen.

Before the untimely passing of David Pelham, he organised a yearly trip away for Y-Typers in the UK. In Australia we have had rallies to celebrate the 50th, 60th, 65th and in 2017 the 70th Anniversary of the Y-Type is being organised by myself on the Sunshine Coast of Queensland.

The IMGYTR is not a club and has always strived to be more than any club could be - a mutual and friendly group of Y-Type Owners and Enthusiasts, who share their knowledge and interest in the model for the benefit of all - at no cost !.

The IMGYTR is also keen to preserve the knowledge gained by members over the years and has built the website into the best resource you could ever imagine.

In a way we do our best to ensure, at least as far as Y-Types are concerned, that MG is indeed the Marque of Friendship.

It is a fact of life that the MGCC is driven by economics - it needs paying members to provide it's services - for overseas members like myself whose only "benefit" is the monthly "Safety Fast", I can tell you it's a pretty poor effort when compared to the OCC Bulletin and the NEMGTR Sacred Octagon.

The establishment of The Cecil Kimber Society by the NEMGTR is also a wonderful initiative - it's a sad pity that the MGCC never saw any value in the concept and created something similar many years ago.

Suddenly the MGCC is building and "Archive Wing", to finally open up the musty archive boxes (but only to those who pay for the access I suspect). What is the point in an archive with limited access, unless you see it only as a source of revenue, and not a source for research ?.

But I digress, the IMGYTR does host events and we will in the future.

Yours In Y-Types Down Under,

Tony Slattery
A L SLATTERY

Thanks for your responses Richard and Tony.

I have no doubt that the IMGYR does indeed hold a significant amount of information and through the Bulletin Board provides an excellent means of enabling an exchange of ideas from all MG owners, past, present and possible future participants. It is something that no Club can adequately aspire to and it is therefore sense to go with the flow and help develop this.

A key point about those clubs that provide spares for MG's - just the Octagon and the Owners Club - is that they need members subs to pay for the provision of spares without them you just would not get the range of supplies that the Octagon offers for Y Type owners.

Yes as a Committee Member of Octagon I know that we are striving to consider different ways in helping our members. A key issue as you identified in your post is of course the age of the membership. I am unsure how you address this and certainty you Richard and a handful of others are within the age group of 30-40, the majority of others particularly in the Octagon are 50-60 plus
Which presents a challenge. Interestingly the age range of those volunteers helping on the Octagon Stand at the NEC a couple of weeks ago was 65-75 and Pete slightly younger but our only full time employee.

The other two clubs were principally represented by full/part time employees.

So as you can appreciate it is difficult. I note that you mentioned because of work commitments you could only participate as an attendee. I am sure that if you were able to offer just a small amount of time then that would be appreciated by your local branch.

Thanks Tony for mentioning the role of the IMGY in arranging events in Australia and of course I only mentioned the UK

You mentioned dear David Pelham. The events that he helped organise were all under the auspices of the MGCC Y Register and not the IMGYR that Paul Barrow formed in around 2008 (?) when he was in the US and had left the Car Club. I do not recall any other events in the UK were so arranged in the nearly 25 years that I have been involved with Ys since 1991 when I acquired my YA

I agree with your thoughts on MGCC and like many believe that they may have 'missed a trick' here and there - but that's another story!

Best of luck with Y events in Oz and I guess that you are enjoying some warm weather at present. As we await a cold winter!

Sincerely
Jerry
Jerry Birkbeck

Just to clarify a point you raised Tony in your posting and which I attempted to add in my response but the editing time ran out!

David organised a MGCC Y Register trip to France in 02 and followed this up with another in 2012 which was a joint venture. As far as I aware he never organised an annual Y Trip in the UK that I am aware of.

The MGCC Y Register approached me in 1996 through Dennis Doubtfire (then Secretary and driving force in re establishing a Y Register within the MGCC)and
asked if I would be willing to arrange an event celebrating the 50th Birthday of the Y and this I duly did in 1997 and followed this with arranging the Annual Spring Run until 2013. Chris Callaghan has carried this on and in May 2016 we will be celebrating the 19th.

David was on the Committee during this time until he left the MGCC and helped set up the IMGYR in around 2009-10?

Hope that helps!

Thanks
Jerry
Jerry Birkbeck

It's simple to ask are you a club member?

No I am not. And I have no intention of joining the MG car club, or any other club. I don't mean that to come across as confrontational, even though I know it sounds as though it is.
But if you can persuade me as to why MG club membership should be the greatest thing since sliced bread, I will continue to own my YB, enjoy it and go my own sweet way, without the backing of the world's largest car club, of which, I can't see the point of membership, thank you very much.
R Taylor

Well all, whether you want to join a Pay For Membership club, or just hang out here with the Free To Join International MG Y Type Register club or not, we at the IMGYTR remain committed to trying to help you get the best enjoyment out of your wonderful MG Y Types.

It is a shame that it has been so long since my very good friend and one of the founding members of the IMGYTR David Pelham passed and that we have not had any one offer to stand in his place as a UK representative to help other MG Y owners in the UK. If you think that this is something you would like to volunteer to do, then please email me back and I can let you know what we would hope that you will be able to do for us - and it really is not that that hard nor onerous really, but actually just gives you another avenue to enjoy your MG Y in.

Also, if any of you out there feel inspired to put on an event for MG Y owners in your country, please just let us know and we will be happy to promote it for you and feature a write up so that others can enjoy your event around the world.

Paul
Paul Barrow

Robert,

Your not the first Y type owner to share that view with me.
I got my Safety Fast newsletter today and noted that the half yearly newsletter was almost a cut and paste from everything I had already read on the website of the MG Y Register.
Ironically the new Chairman said very Similar to Jerry comments about the need for owners to volunteer to run events etc, which is fine if you have time too.

Hopefully see you at next years Cobweb Spin if you are going? The Winchester MGOC were looking for names of owners who wish to display their car there again next year if you are interested, make contact with the club.

Richard
R E Knight

Richard, this may come across as ironic, given that club membership is there to help in times of mechanical difficulty. Yes I will make the effort to join you at the Cobweb Spin, if the car is running.
Since returning from the Goodwood Revival, the car has had a series of running difficulties. It misfires, coughs, splutters and runs rough. I have gone through everything. A new coil, new condenser, new points, new rotary arm, new distributor cap. Then I went over to the fuel side. The fuel pump is new, but I bought a replacement carburettor kit & needle, replacing all the workings. It has improved things, but only slightly. After going through all the invoices in the file I realised that, although the previous owner said it ran on unleaded ok, there was no invoice to say that an actual conversion had been done. The last owner did 1500 miles in 12 years. He transported it everywhere, no wonder it never had a problem. An internal inspection through the spark plug hole revealed pitting on the valves, a classic sign of valve wear due to replacing four star with unleaded without the conversion. So, fifteen hundred pounds lighter (if only that was off my waist,) I will be at Hillier Gardens, all dressed up in period attire, as usual, see you there.
R Taylor

Hi,
I agree that the BBS IMGYTR is absolutely brilliant for technical advice and information, not gnerally available through any recognised club source. However, as a means of meeting and keeping up with like minded people a recognised club is a good idea, whether the fee is worth the benefit is a moot point.

In my case, when we aquired our Y in 1972 we looked around for a club to join, with the idea of meeting other Y type owners, sourcing spares and technical advice.

I enquired about joining the MGCC and on approaching a senior member of the local Natter was told in no uncertain terms "oh, it's a saloon, only fit for spares for a T type" not what I wanted to hear. So I joined the Octagon, good ole 'arry was very helpful, when anything was not right and proved to be a useful source of information and spares, however, not another Y type in sight. From 1974 to 1983 we participated in the Loire valley runs organised by The Octagon.
Fast Forward to 1997 the "birth of the Y run" was the first time I'd seen another Y!

From being involved with the local MGOC I've now met two other local Y types. Being able to share ideas and discuss problems can be a great solace when difficulties arise (thanks Brian H).

we've recently participated in a few MGCC events, spring run, Llanerchindda Farm and this years Loire Valley run and having met some exceptional people has persuaded us to join the MGCC to enjoy a similar friendship with our other two MG (MGTF, MG3)as well.

So, in MHO what you get from a club, depends on what you put in and although geography dissuades me from regular participation in wider MG events and formal committee activities, I still think being a member of a like minded group is no bad thing and if there is a cost that's a bullet worth biting.

Regards
Dave Y4002
P.S. Gerry, thank you for including 4 photo's of our car in "Safety Fast" we've only been members for less than 2 seconds!
D P Jones

A couple of week ago I enjoyed a great day out at the NEC Classic Motor Show. 5 huge halls packed with classic car interest and amongst the thousands of stands there were of course hundreds of Classic Car Club Stands. Without these clubs the Classic car scene would be a much sorrier place, the energy and enthusiasm that emanates from the clubs feeds the multi-million classic car industry that enables us to continue enjoying our cars. Yes you can own and enjoy a classic car without joining a club but thankfully thousands do belong and make it possible for the rest.
At the MGCC Y Register we organise two major events every year which are well attended and enjoyed by perhaps only a small percentage of Y owners. However we are regularly helping members and none members with all sorts of problems and we are always looking to extend the range of products for Y types that are not readily available elsewhere. I know that individuals sometimes produce an item that they need in a small quantity and sell to others, but this is far better done by a club as the costs of patterns and formers can be considerable. Plus the production can be repeated for future needs.
It is the clubs who are fighting for classic car rites. For a few pounds a month you may not regularly be able to see a benefit but without you and your fellow members you could very well find it much more difficult to drive your car on the public highway.
Peter
MGCC Chairman
Peter Vielvoye

"A couple of week ago I enjoyed a great day out at the NEC Classic Motor Show."

Sounds like you had a great time Peter. I was working, and so never got there.
When I bought the YB, it was on the advice of a local garage owner, he recommended the model because he knew that I liked the vintage appearance, with it's external headlamps, classic grille, suicide doors, gull wing bonnet, running boards and so on, but underneath it's much more modern than say, any of the 1930's models, that it shares it's appearance with. The car is yet another accessory to our sort of lifestyle. It takes it's place alongside the valve driven wireless, the similarly valve driven jukebox (it plays 45's not 78's regrettably,)the cord connected, finger dial telephone, the black & white television, that sits unobtrusively in a 1930's cabinet, with the doors closed most of the time, and the wardrobe full of classical vintage wear and accoutrements.
The one thing that I feel is important to being a club member is to be involved, and I simply do not have the time to do that.
We did though, get the time to go to Franklyn Gardens to see Stephen Myler beat Billy Twelvetrees 5-1. What a good day that was.
R Taylor

Wow that was a sting in the tail, it's depressed me all weekend.
Peter Vielvoye

It's important to remember that all car clubs are part of the Historic Vehicle Register which is the lobbying body that works on all classic car owners behalf ensuring that our cars remain on the road.

So very simply no clubs, no one lobbying with the government and eventually all classic cars banned from the roads!

That may seem draconian and of course that may well eventually happen but we do have someone helping us.

So there is an oft forgotten reason for belonging to a club!

Some fascinating contributions on this posting.

From a miserable day in Devon where I am enjoy playing indoor tennis and some off the wall arts and crafts. Mind you a very poor signal for wi-fi, though in the corner of the bar bar okay!

Have fun

Jerry
Jerry Birkbeck

Jerry,

We need to lobby the fuel companies to stop putting the Ethonol in the fuel that then eats it's way at the parts of the car, causing our cars to go off road by stealth.
R E Knight


Richard

I don't if the thoughts below help.

As I understand it that indeed is one of the issues that the Historic Vehicle Register is pursuing. It might be worthwhile looking at their website and confirming that this is the case and if not then email them and ash them why not. It is also important to contact each of the three clubs of which you are a member to find out what they are doing

Certainly action through clubs and organisation such as the Historic Vehicle Register is the only possible way of enhancing the situation. Moreover in response to the virulent effects of ethanol companies are creating alternative materials to help overcome the problem.These are the kind of companies that as a movement classic car owners need to support.

If you get some positive responses then perhaps sharing these thoughts with other registers may be valuable and ask them to contact not only the individual MG registers
but also the broad church of the classic car movement so that they canvass the opinion of a broader ra

All the best
Jerry
Jerry Birkbeck

Above should end

'canvas the widest range of interests as possible.'

Jerry
Jerry Birkbeck

You can also write to your political representative - MP, Senator, Congress whatever too.

Paul
Paul Barrow

This thread was discussed between 26/11/2015 and 01/12/2015

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