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MG MG Y Type - Water temperature gauge on a YB?

I am impressed with the gauges my 'new' YB (1953, reg JDM622) has as standard, but I'd like to fit a water temp gauge as well, as I have always believed they are a good health check. It would be discreetly fitted, hinged underneath the dash so that it can easily be folded out of sight when not needed (and crucially no damage to the dash itself).
What I'd like to know is - Is it possible? Where can the sender be fitted?

Many thanks for any help.

Phil Gilbert
Phil Gilbert

Phil: For a water temperature gauge you would normally insert the probe into the header of the rad. The T types came with a blanked off insert to add a gauge as an after market accessory, but the Ys at least the YA and YT did not have that, not sure about the YB. That means you have to find the insert ( probably not difficult in the UK), take out your rad and have the insert soldered in.The insert of the probe into the header of the rad is far from perfect as it measures water temperature and if there is no water it doesn't work. John Marks at Vintage Restorations sells gauges and can give advice on an alternate installation which may be better. Anyway the Y is not prone to overheating in our climates and if you have that problem it is probably symptomatic of something else that needs attention. Terry
Terry O'Brien

Terry is right regarding the potential for inaccuracy with a probe in the header tank. To counter this problem in my Wolseley 4/44 (XPAW) I fitted an auxillary gauge into the head of the engine - the probe screwed straight into the water outlet. I can't remember if the 4/44 has the same setup as the YB,but if not it might be easier and more accurate to fit a 4/44 outlet to your XPAG head.


Steven
Steve Hill

Many thanks to Terry and Steve for their responses. I will be looking into the possibility of Steve's suggestion.
Are there any other owners out there who can tell me if the water outlet from the head can be changed with one for an XPAW, and if so where I can obtain one?

Thanks,

Phil.
Phil Gilbert

Wolseley 4/44 uses the TF water outlet, and is pressurised with a modern thermostat. Later 4/44 heads had a screwed hole in the head for a temperature sensor. Ealy 4/44 had it in the radiator header tank as per 'TD'.

Neil.
Neil Cairns

Thanks for the help as above.
I managed to obtain a (30 year old?) 'Sedan' water temp gauge in its original box from an autojumble. It's a mechanical one, and I fixed the sender (using a tube of high temp 'instant' gasket, plus a nut on the inside) to a spare top hose which came with my car. This is the hose which connects the thermostat housing with the rad header tank, and is about a quarter inch thick.
After draining the cooling system down to the required level, I removed the existing hose (not easy with both the rad and the housing still in place, and resulted in some loss of skin from knuckles) and replaced it with my Heath Robinson hose with the sender sticking out.
I fed the gauge connection through the hole by the steering column, and have loosely attached the gauge just under the dash without any holes being drilled.
And since then (150 miles ago) I have a working water temp gauge!
Because of the location of the sender, no reading is visible until the thermostat has opened, but from then on whilst driving the gauge sits at around 75 degrees, and always goes to 80-ish after switching off when the heat ceases being circulated and cooled.
The gauge cost me a fiver, and the gasket stuff I already had, so I'm pretty pleased with the job - as long as it doesn't leak which it hasn't done so far!

I can now relax with the knowledge that I have a (rough) idea of what's happening under my bonnet when driving.

Cheers,

Phil.
Phil Gilbert

Phil,

And now something else to worry about!!

The best car I ever had was a Morris Minor 1000 for no-worry-motoring. It had a speedometer with a fuel guage within the face, with an ignition light and main beam light each side of the fuel guage. Nothing else, just the one dial to look at.

Neil.
Neil Cairns

Thanks for the thought Neil.

I have read your very interesting article published in January’s ‘Safety Fast’, covering oil pressure, oil flow, etc. In this article you expressed similar sentiments, basically that the more knowledge one has, the worse the worrying can get. However, I believe there’s a few points you’re missing:
If I want to have a car that I can sit back and drive, without any concern over its reliability or health, then I drive a modern car. I currently drive a new VW, my wife a Citroen diesel, and both of them can happily be ‘ignored’ for months, with virtually the only time the bonnet needing to be opened is when it’s time for a regular service at a garage. They both offer proverbial ‘trouble-free’ motoring.
However, I did not buy a classic car for that type of motoring. My YB was built at a time when cars were not built to withstand the driving conditions that today’s drivers put up with:

 They were not built to cruise at 80mph, but more like 35-40.
 They were built with the home ‘mechanic’ in mind, simply flicking through the car’s manual confirms this - how to remove a tyre from the wheel!!!???
 They were frequently to be found stopped in a lay-by, giving the engine a rest (i.e. cooling down with the bonnet raised) half way through its epic journey of 80 miles
 They needed some components attended to every 500 miles (I do 700 miles a WEEK in my VW!)

That’s not to say they aren’t capable of being subjected to perhaps more than we feel we ought to put them through, it’s just that they are more likely than not to complain. Let’s face it, a car 50 years old is elderly, and needs to be treated with a little TLC.

It’s a bit like ignoring your bank account and refusing to look at your bank statements, when you know you are spending lots of money using cash and cheques, and there’s several standing orders / direct debits coming out here and there. Yes you can do it, but be prepared for a nasty surprise at some point!

Right now my YB seems to be running well. She starts easily, she doesn’t leak water, she doesn’t leak much oil (and seemingly none from worrying places), she doesn’t knock, squeak or rattle, and she’s had all her nipples greased. Her gearbox, brakes, axle and importantly her body seem fine too.
However, she won’t stay in that condition if I ignore any aches and pains she may suffer from by being the proverbial ostrich.

So that’s my humble view on your response. Thoughts?


Anyway, as an aside, surely I have a YB in order that I CAN worry about what could be going wrong with her? Isn't that part of the fun of having an old car? As I said earlier, if I wanted to be an ostrich I’d buy a new VW?!

Yours,

Phil.
Phil Gilbert

You are right Phil, and like others I too look a guages. But if the oil pressure was to suddenly drop, by the time you saw it IF you were watching the guage, the engine would be wrecked anyway. The water temperature guage on the XPAG has the same problem, you have to be looking at it to 'catch' the problem. When the water level falls below the sensor, you do not get any reading at all. By the time you do look at it because of the steam bursting out from your bonnet, again it is too late.

If a Morris 1000 can do 120,000 miles with virtually no guages to worry about, then other cars should be able to do the same or better. Today, the ECMS box carries out all the necessary checks and moniors the engine health constantly. Once someting goes wrong it closes down that system, or runs it at a pre-set safe level until the car is fixed. Older cars are very over-engineered to get over this problem.

I think it is an insult to the engineers and desigeners of the days our old cars were built to run them at 30-40mph. My 1952 YB can cruise all day at 55mph, often touching 60mph. But I come across people in their TD's and TF's poodling along at 35-40mph. This only gets the cars a bad name in today's faster traffic, by causing long tail-backs.

I am ( much ) older than my YB, I certainly have not 'slowed down' with myself,so why do it with a car? I ENJOY belting past the Nissan Sunny, Sunday Driver. Their faces are a picture and more than once I have been approached over my 'Tuned' car. It is a bog-standard YB. I feel those who have cars 'older' than themselves do treat them rather too carefully. I try to drive with the current traffic conditions, at the same speed. This is far safer than being rammed up the rear by a sleeping LGV driver, or a mobile-phone junky.

I believe the older cars are there to be driven and enjoyed. Yes, they will break down occasionally, but a keen enthusiasts will have a spare fan belt, a pumped up spare wheel, a litre of oil, or whatever his/her car requires, ( ie a half-shaft if its a TA.) That is also part of the fun. But our cars do so little mileage these days, they are more liable to suffer from a sticking brake wheel-cylinder, or corroded SU fuel pump points, or even crazed tyre walls eventually splitting, due to low annual use. If we do not 'use' our cars, nothing will ever wear out, and the MG specialists will all go out of business. Then when we do eventually need a new bit......

Why go out for a fun drive, and be paranoid over breaking down? Join the AA, RAC, or Green Flag if that is the main worry. Why treat a lump of metal as if it is a frail, senile old lady? Drive it and enjoy it I say.

( Perhaps we should have started another thread?)

Note, I am NOT having a go at Phil, this is an adult discussion. We all have different points of view, and it would be very boring if we did not.

Neil.
Neil Cairns

This thread was discussed between 28/03/2001 and 24/04/2001

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