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MG MG Y Type - Y-type clutch cable

Today's pleasant Sunday drive was punctuated by the clutch cable snapping. This is the second time! Last time was ~8 years ago and was replaced then with a cable salvaged from a a TD or TF that appeared to be in good order. I thought it would last longer!

Is this a recognised weakness of the YA/YT? If so, has the brains trust come up with a reliable improvement/replacement?

Regards,
Rob (YT3706)

R Ades

Hi Robert

Your cable could be misaligned or there is a rough spot that's catching the cable.
My cable has been going strong since 1971 when I purchased the car and was very second hand then.

cheers
Ian
Ian Prior

Hi,
well my YT has a rigid rod. It ain't original, but I think it's as done on some G's.
Someone will know if you are looking for an alternative, but I think the TC has a rod.

regards KGM
K G Mills

The TC has a chain KGM, or at least mine does. To the best of my knowledge they all had a chain.
Ian
ian thomson

Hi
when i wanted to take the cable off, it breaks
so i looked what can i do

now i have a solid rod, really easy to make with some parts you can get in the web
look to my blog:

https://www.mgexp.com/forum/t-series-and-prewar-forum.46/mg-ya-no-1675-from-1948.4022768/page-34

there you will find more information
easy to adjust and buid in stainless steel for a few euros
FT Franz

My YA YB and YT all have push rod mechanism that is pulled by a cable. I presume that is what you are meaning isnt it Rob?

I get replacement cables from Speedograph Richfield https://www.mg-cars.org.uk/imgytr/links.shtml#Cables_-_Hand_brake,_Clutch,_Speedometer_and_Tachometer. They are excellent quality.

Paul
Paul Barrow

I do believe the rod system found on later TD's will work and adapt well for the YT. My TD originally had a. cable and I have converted that to a rod with no issues. Moss sells the conversion.
CR Tyrell

Thanks all, useful comments.

Yes Paul, it's the cable that connects the bottom of the clutch pedal to the crank that in turn actuates the push rod.

Ian, it's hard to see how the cable may be misaligned because one end is defined in the pedal box and the other end is the crank attached to the sump. I can file the sheath ID with a fine rat tail before it all goes back together to deburr any dangers.

I guess it needs to be a cable because the pedal box is mounted on the chassis whilst the crank is attached to the motor. A rod between these two points would be problematic unless there was a lot of slack in the joints. Also the pedal box would need to be modified because a rod would not stay aligned with the exit hole as the pedal and crank move through their arcs.

I'm interested if anyone has successfully used a rod to pull between the pedal and the crank. If so, how?

A chain link rather than a cable would be more robust but a larger aperture would be needed in the cable box. Dirt, dust & FOD in the pedal box would be a worry. A cable link in a snug sheath prevents this.

The cable pull mechanism Moss sell for TD & TF looks identical to the YA/YT version.

I can have my broken cable replaced locally and be back where I was. If the sheath is clean it shouldn't break again (hopefully). Or I could use 8 gauge fence strainer wire like the old farmers do; that worked on our Massey Ferguson ;-).

More thinking...
R Ades

Hi Ian,
you are completely right about the Tc. Suitably chastened, after further reading, it may be that only later TD's and the TF had the rods. Early TD's had a cable or so I read.
CR Tyrell's comment supports this.

There are articles by TD O'Connor and Declan Burns with ideas for this., and Franz has made up a version as well. As I said, my YT has a rod, probably a TD part. (I have also made up an adjustable push rod to the clutch cross shaft rather than a fixed one, which seems a pretty well universal fix to keep the linkage geometry well conditioned.)
I have just used a rubber cover on the front of the pedal box to try to keep any extraneous stuff out. But since at the present rate of restoration on my YT, it may never make it out of the shed, that isn't a real concern anyway.)
regards KGM
K G Mills

Hi Franz,

I couldn't see on your blog the solid rod arrangement you've fabricated between the pedal box and the forward crank. I presume this is a rod that pulls rather than pushes, replacing the original cable pull. Can you please post a couple of pictures here of what you've done?

Regards,
Rob
R Ades

Hi
i will do it, but will take some days
i thought i had made more pictures
always the same
i have posted so much pictures for TA and YA but alwas the same
not enough
i the moment i search for a picture from my TA distributor, i have made them, but could not find
i have a new computer, ssd too small, no dvd inside,
last computer with dvd, took it out and put a 1000gb harddisk in
it is cold here, bad weather and the YA is in a garage outside
so you have to wait some days
i took a V2A rod 8mm
made a thread at both ends m8
there i used something like this, you will find them in your country too

https://seiloo.de/spannschloss-mit-gabel/885-m6-m24-spannschloss-gabelgabel-m6-m24-seilspanner-geschlossene-form-spannschraube.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIk7OPgtDR_AIVGpBoCR2JbAfhEAQYCSABEgLjn_D_BwE

with this parts it was cheap and easy to do
you have to bend it twise
that it was

you will get the pictures


now i am working on my TA, new brake line, new bearings in the back, painted the frame, overhauled the steering
http://www.mg-tabc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=928


FT Franz

Hi Rob, Sometimes I have difficulties working out what's what on an image. So I have cobbled together some odd bits from references which might help supplement Franz's images. I can't give you lengths for the tension rod, but if you need it, I think I could still measure the push linkage at its present setting on my YT, and also the length of the tension rod from the face of the pedal box. Declan's plan gives more info in that regard, which you can get by accessing his article.
regards Kevin M
K G Mills

Thanks Franz, but I think I'm sorted now with the summary Kevin Mills has compiled.

Very good, thanks a lot Kevin. Now I see.

It's the "pull connection" only (from pedal to front crank lever) that I'm concerned with. The pushrod running back to the clutch is fine. I was concerned that a rod bent to replace a pull cable may tend to straighten itself over time. I see that the rod being used is quite substantial so should hold its shape.

The distance and travel between pedal and front crank is different in a YA/YT compared to a TD. Hence a custom rod is necessary. I'm not sure the NTG one will fit if it's for a TD or TF.

Now I know what to aim for. More thought now...
R Ades

Hi Rob, I have quite a collection of pull rods that I have found fitted to Y-Types over the years. Most are rather primitive.

My advice is to get another cable made using the original fittings or buy one from a UK supplier.

If you do decide to go for a rod, make sure it has the same length adjustment that the cable fittings offer AND be prepared for rapid wear in the connections/pins at either end due to engine vibration. You might also find the new rod will vibrate at certain engine RPM and or road speed. Finding a rubber seal to keep the grinding road sand out of the pedal box will also be a challenge.

Best Wishes for 2023 - looking forward to seeing you and Cecil in Canberra in the MG Centenary Rally followed by MG TYme.

Cheers

Tony
The Classic Workshop
Black Mountain
Qld
Australia


A L SLATTERY

Hi Rob.
Is the clutch cable on the Y the same as a TD one.If so I have a brand new one that I bought by mistake years ago( never been used),that you can have cheaply.Cheers.Ralph.
R E J Stewart

Hi Tony,

I've already sent the cable assembly for repair. If I'm luck I'll pick it up today.

Ralph, thanks for the offer but I'm ok for the cable. BTW, yes, it's the same as the TD cable but the pedal travel distance is a bit different so the adjustment is critical.

Hopefully I'll get the car back on the road this weekend with the repaired cable. But I like a project, which is why the pull rod interests me.

Tony, I agree and anticipate the problems you've described. Wear, vibration and FOD in the pedal box have all occurred to me. There's reasons why Abington went with a cable. But I feel it could be improved.

Thanks for everyone's comments. As I said, more thought...
R Ades

Disappointingly, my clutch cable didn't come back from repair in time for the weekend. But I want to drive my car!

With all of the brains trust's helpful comments from this thread in mind, I visited our local yacht rigging shop this morning; this is my go-to place for high-strength stainless steel fittings. A browse of their clearance table, I selected a closed turnbuckle with clevises both ends, a long threaded eye-bolt, a couple of small shackles and a few links of chain. I fabricated a new cover plate from some spare 1/4" aluminium plate from my scraps bucket.

Attached are two pictures of my contraption, on the bench then fitted in the car. Seems to work well. First test run, the pedal action feels good. Smooth and positive. No vibration from the engine. The shrink-wrap tube on the chain dampens any clatter from that. There's two adjustments threads (fore and aft). There's minimal hole clearance in the 1/4" cover plate so FOD in the pedal box is unlikely.

I'm happy with this. Total cost <$20 plus some fun tinkering in the workshop. Should be stronger than the original with no cable stretch. We'll see how it goes. When the repaired original comes back it'll go in the spares cupboard.





R Ades

Two more pictures...




R Ades

Still think your best bet is to buy the real deal from Speedograph Richfield Robert. A phone call to them will secure the item and it will be in transit the same day. If you had placed the order on Jan 15 it would be almost to you by now.

Paul
Paul Barrow

Hi Paul,

I appreciate there's always two camps; faithful authenticity versus moderate modified. After 18 years with my YT, I've landed in the middle. Some things can be subtley improved, and would have been but for BMC's forced component regime. Our lovely cars were always a compromise of available Morris bits, not always the best ones.

The repaired original will be lovingly stored with all the other original bits off the car and the stronger system will remain for now. It's an out-of-sight component so only we know it's there. Anyway, after two snapped cables I'm hesitant to try third time lucky. We use the car a lot.

Not sure that SRL could have got a replacement to me from UK in 5 days anyway.

It's all good fun. Went for a longer drive today with lots of clutch action. Another check on the hoist after that... all seems to be working as intended.
R Ades

Hi All,
YB0362 a 52 car which has been owened by us since 1961,it must have had a very early engine change in it's life at the same time the cable was changed for a TD clutch rod as we have never changed it, the mileage now would be around 300,000 in all the time that has passed the rod has never given the slightist problem and is really a forgotten about part
John YB0362
JC Jebb

This thread was discussed between 15/01/2023 and 27/01/2023

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