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MG ZR ZS ZT Technical - £20000 X TYPE

Desperate Jaguar has launched a poverty spec X Type for £19995.It has a 2.5 V6 engine,a 130mph top speed, will just scrape 10 secs to 60mph and handles like a tug in a typhoon!.Obviously the previous £23000 basic model was'nt doing the business as punters were buying MG ZT's instead,which has scared the crap out of Jaguar and most of the other prestige marques.That wiped the smug grin of their faces,my local Rover dealer went over to Jaguar 18 months ago,serves them right.
Kevin Davis

I saw this in Autocar, i think the ZT will flame it! Mega does work for the Jag plant in Halewood, see if he has any news on the subject.
JJ

>>>tug in a typhoon!.<<<
Have you driven both?
I have and the Jag is better in handling,finish and interior trim.
I do like the look externally of ZT, fav colour red.
Also see many more X types than ZT on the road and yet to see any that have broke down,but already of the few ZT's i've seen, already 2 being towed by AA and 1 at side of road.
Have they got a problem?
Joe

Your joking aren't you Joe? (I hope to hell you are!)
JJ

Yeah, but X-type's come to North America.. they'll stay afloat... we can't get our new MG's here so we settle for "poverty spec jaguars"
David Ryzuk

We can only hope that one day soon you can!
JJ

David, Canada

Remember we pay over the odds for cars in the UK. Always have, it's one of the things we're very good at!

Thus this means for what we pay for a "poverty" spec Jag, you'd get a better spec one for LESS money!

I've seen many more Jags than ZTs in my neck of the woods. To my eyes, on looks alone, the ZT is light years ahead of the Jag. If as Kevin says it IS a bit of a barge and merely creeps up to 60, I dont think the punters will be forming any queues to purchase. Fleets maybe will buy because that sub £20k will have some appeal, but one thing the average Brit private buyer likes and expects in his Jag is performance. Ten seconds 0-60 does not fulfill that criteria.

To my eyes, these latest Jaguars do NOT have that elegance of line most previous Jaguars appeared to possess. Whatever happened to "Space, Pace, Grace" ?
John McFeely

Jaguar X type....0-60 in 10, 130mph.....I'll stick with my Rover 600 thank you, 0-60 9.5s, 128mph top....seven years old and 150,000 miles. Roll on the ZS...!
Yorkie

Jaguar Road tests have not been very flattering here but,according to the latest EU sales data from acea.be ,the marque is selling over 4000 units a month
and is up 90% Nov2001 VS Nov2000 so some people must see something in it! (MGR sold 11700 units in Nov,up 3% over Nov last year )
andrew

Andrew
Do you know how many X types have been sold?
JJ

The jag X type is the far better car,why have I seen so many ZT's being towed.
I have bought 2 new MG's this year
next march I may buy new X type
when are you Mr Feely going to buy a new MG.
Joe

For JJ-they don't break down figures by individual models,nor is Rover separated from MG in the data.

Jaguar's move seems to make sense to combat the success
of the ZT but,while doing this, are Ford going to
give back the advantage to MGR by supplying them with the 260 HP V8 ??
andrew

According to the blurb that I got from Jaguar the new entry level Jag will be a 2 litre engine not 2.5 so no it will not set the world on fire BUT I do not think that is what was intended the whole idea is to produce a Jaguar at under 20 thousand pounds and they have done it, and I for one commend them and hope that they have success with it.

Ted
Ted Newman

I said >handles like a tug in a typhoon<,no i have'nt driven an X Type so i should'nt comment really but i thought i would put it in anyway!.But it is a bottom of the range Jaguar and come resale time there will be more punters looking for mid spec Jags than basic entry level ones,dealers wont be interested in it.A new MGZT is a much better place to put your £19995.I bet the MG will be much more desirable as a used buy in 2-3 tears time.
Kevin Davis

Yes Ted, 2.1 litres according to auto journal.
There must certainly be many potential buyers who could not have afforded a Jag in the past,(but will probably soon be dissapointed with what they get !)
andrew

Whats the matter with you people (some of you) do you prefer that the sort of person that this English built car is aimed at should carry on buying their Bavarian Cortinas (a very, very old Top Gear description)?

So it aint going to be as sporty as a MGZT (what ever that is) or as desirable as a 2nd hand X Type 2.5 or 3 litre BUT it is still going to be a bloody good ENGLISH BUILT motor car and I wish them well and they get my vote for trying to keep Brits employed.

And we complain about the negative attitude of the British Motoring Press - GOD they could learn a lot from some of you!

Ted
Ted Newman

"keep Brits employed."
do scousers count as brits?


jj

THe VERY finest BRITS!
Mega

i thought they were welsh refugees :)
jj

I think most of us also hope Jaguar are successful-but not at the expense of the recovery to health of MGR with whom they are now competing.BTW it seems the initial X type was made all wheel drive because they couldn't get the full power to the road with only two-hence the need to reduce to only 150 HP in the cheap version which,as you say, is rather feeble for that kind of car
andrew

Far be it for me to wish hard working people into unemployment but please remember that Jaguar is owned by Ford,who have massive resources worldwide.If the X Type fails then i am sure they will be able to find something else for them to build at Halewood!.Ford can afford to get things wrong,MGR cant.
Kevin Davis

HI Kevin
I thought this my self , but last time a dropped in a job at Halewood (I do odd things for them)they were some what troubled. I have yet to hear more but i will be back to my contact in the new year.

Keep you posted
Mega

The new version of the X is due to arrive in France in March.It will come in at just under the
£20K (equivalent ) price but I wonder how much of a barrier this may be for people with that kind of money.Personally,I think its worth spending £2,000 more to have an all wheel drive and the extra
40 HP.
PS How come the ZT manages to put down 190 HP through the front wheels & the new Jag limits itself
to 150 ?
andrew

Andrew - the front drive 2.1 litre is primarily a fleet car, whose buyers look to price first. There will be some private buyers drawn to the name and price, but many will look at the total package, equipment availability, etc., just as you have.

Kevin - Unfortunately for Ford, these days it CAN'T afford to get anything wrong either. Mr. Nasser worked very hard to drive the company into the ground, and the new folks are cutting back, selling things off, and fireselling all the inventory, just to pay the bills. Given the current currency rates, car assembly in Britain, particularly for significant exporters from the UK, can only be supported by premium priced and valued cars - Jaguar being among them (one hopes MG-R, too!). Without joining Euroland, Halewood's options are limited indeed if the X-type fails. (Is Land Rover looking for additional Freelander capacity?)

BTW - I just don't see that happening. The optimistic forecast was for a doubling of sales - just as the S-type was to double sales over the XJ. The X and S types end up being somewhat closer in size (and price in the 3.0L models), so while the X-type will expand Jaguar sales, it'll steal some S-type sales, too. Jaguar will need to claw and scratch for each sale. Welcome to the real world. But the X-type is a great product and should do well enough, if not exactly meet all its goals.

MG-R is working very hard and doing a credible job given its situation. I would be intrigued if they would be able to source a larger V6 - like the Jaguar 3.0L - to do a RWD ZT variant to fill the gap between the front drive 2.5L and the coming V8's. Now, that would be a range! I doubt, though, that Ford or anyone else, would feel sufficiently secure to give a reviving competitor this sort of help. (I don't think the KV6 is up to the job - I believe Roger Parker mentioned that 2.7L is the maximum displacement possible on that engine. Of course, supercharging is possible - but that trick would be seen as a niche, rather than volume, product.)
John Z

This thread was discussed between 14/12/2001 and 20/12/2001

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