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MG ZR ZS ZT Technical - Buying ZS 180
| Having sold my Maestro turbo I am now thinking of upgrading my ZR 120 to a ZS180. What are the things to look out for. Also does anyone have any general comments on reliabilty, fuel consumption etc. any opinions welcomed cheers, Ian |
| Ian Rusbridge |
| Ian, I am hoping they will put the 160hp k series 1.8 turbo into the ZS to give near to 180 performance with lower consumption,purchase price etc But I may be waiting in vain........... |
| andrew |
| Ian, I am getting around 30mpg from my ZS180, mainly motorway driving. I used to have a MGF 1.8i and I was getting over 40mpg for the same journeys. I've had my ZS for nearly 3 months and completed over 8,000 miles without any problems so far (touch wood). Ralph |
| Ralph |
| Why are you downgrading from your turbo to a ZS. |
| Ian cresswell |
| "Why are you downgrading from your turbo to a ZS." Ian C Maybe Ian want a car that go's fast round corners and not just in a straight line ;) The ZS also benefits from having "BRAKES" and not them things the Maestro has stoping it -i think there called pizzas :) Michael |
| m moore |
| I 'upgraded' from a turbo car to a ZS180. I thought I enjoyed driving cars, now I have a 180, I realise what I had been missing. See my running reports in MG World, and comments in Saftey Fast if you are an MGCC member! Kelvin |
| Kelvin |
| >>>>>>Ian C Maybe Ian want a car that go's fast round corners and not just in a straight line ;) The ZS also benefits from having "BRAKES" and not them things the Maestro has stoping it -i think there called pizzas :)<<<<<<, I used to have a sense of humour and don't find that funny at all. Gareth |
| Gareth Kidman |
| I sold my turbo last year as I didn't have space for two cars. I have since got bored of the ZR and I feel the ZS180 is a natural modern replacement for my turbo in size and performance. I never complained about the handling of my turbo and with goodrich hoses and EBC pads, I found the brakes okay - never ever had a panic nor did they fade much. In fact, friends in Golf GTi's with supposed superior handling and brakes could never keep up - on the straights and never beat me on twisty stuff either! I have found my ZR to be very reliable and good fun, with terrific handling, but the Maestro was superior at high speed. Will be interesting to see how the ZS compares, but I recall Tiff Needells comments about it being one of the best front drive chassis' he has driven... |
| Ian R |
| I do hope Tiff was right, I've just ordered one for the first week in March..... |
| David |
| MGZS's are every where now, and the ZRs are the new boy racers car, I'd rather keep the exclusivity of my turbo, plus the fact I like killing the new breed of MG. MG Maestro's rule. |
| Ian cresswell |
| ", plus the fact I like killing the new breed of MG." LOL Ian :) Thats quite a bold statement,would you care to put it to the test at a track day? Even if your packing a T16 lump i'd slay ya. Michael |
| m moore |
| >I do hope Tiff was right, I've just ordered one for the first week in March..... Congrats David, goodbye to the Civic? |
| Kelvin |
| Round a track, no thanks I have standard turbo suspension so it is boaty. I' give you a go on 1/4 mile strip though, oh and yes I'am packing T16. Which means I have over 200bhp/ton power to weight ratio, against your 150ish. |
| Ian cresswell |
| Hey Mr Fagan You must know what would win a drag race between a ZS180 and a 8v maestro turbo. Would he Slay you in your ZS? Michael |
| m moore |
| BRAKE FADE ON THE MM Cars (see m moore response above)... yes, been there done that. Two cars suffered with fade at high speed applications .... BOTH cars had non-Rover-Unipart replacement pads fitted. Makers name clearly visible. With fresh Rover or Unipart pads, braking MUCH improved. I think too many of these cars were fitted with sub-standard replacement pads ..... PARTICULARLY noticeable if car used for towing. BTW, my trusty 1988 Silver Leaf EFi is a better towing car than any of my turbos .... funny that. |
| John McFeely |
| 8v.............Er whos got an 8v. |
| Ian cresswell |
| David Smith, Well done David ... ZS180 delivery in March eh ... colour? Ian, >> MG Maestro's rule. << Oh no they don't ... Monty turbos do ..... except when towing ... LOL.IIRC, IIRC, Tiffany Dell said it (ZS180)was then the BEST FrWD car he'd driven .... but the old ears get a bit dodgy with all those years of screaming revs ... LOL JMcF |
| John McFeely |
| That will be me with an 8 valve. When running 15 psi it's been RR'ed at 226.8bhp. Not to mention that 248lb ft of torque @3200rpm. Now, quarter mile strip anyone? Mine's lowered too, so handles quite well. Gareth |
| Gareth Kidman |
| >>>>>>>> MG Maestro's rule. << Oh no they don't ... Monty turbos do ..... except when towing ... LOL.IIRC, ,<<<< Sorry John, IIRC, a Maestro is lighter, more nimble round the corners, and an equal towing car. Gareth |
| Gareth Kidman |
| Gareth, No need for sorry ..... you must have your serious mode activated? ...... LOL |
| John McFeely |
| FWIW, a STD MG Maestro Turbo is quicker than a ZS180 0-60 (6.7 V 7.3) Top speed difference is about 5mph but irrevelant for the road and track, the Maestro topping out at 130.9mph V Zs of 139mph. 1/4 Mile wise, STD the Maestro is 15.4 seconds, can't find the figures for a ZS but IIRC they are ITRO 15.1-15.2 seconds. As you can see, an even match in reality, but my modified example is significantly faster than O.E, the last 1/4 mile run was 14.2, and timed 0-60 of 5.8 (This was running 14psi last summer) A T16 running 200bhp isn't far off, with early 6 0-60's consistantly not to mention a higher top speed. Gareth |
| Gareth Kidman |
| Forgot to mention an STD MG Maestro Turbo only has 152bhp.. |
| Gareth Kidman |
| My motorsport interests started with Drag Racing back in the mid 70's, and I've always enjoyed the thrill of getting away at the lights fastest, and the turbos I've owned have done me proud!! :-) (Bit of torque too, great fun!) The ZS is no slouch off the line, and 0-60 times of turbo Maestro & 180 are very similar I belive? There is no the torque steer under sharp acceleration from a standing start with the 180. This will please many as lots of people hate torque steer, I actually enjoyed fighting it!! No one as yet, (I dont think) has put these cars up the strip side by side... I think David will agree, for those of us that have driven Maestros and Montys for a number of years, and who are in the market for a new car, and wish to remain in MG ownership, then the ZS180 is the obvious route.. I think I paid less than what was the brand new price of a Maestro Turbo, for my ex-demo ZS180. To answer the original question, I have now covered almost 23K trouble free miles in my ZS180 with fuel consumption from a low as 18 mpg to a max of 35+. Kelvin |
| Kelvin |
| The thread seems to be wandering off topic! original post was: >does anyone have any general comments on reliabilty, fuel consumption!! Kelv |
| Kelvin |
| Yeah my cars 100% reliable and i can get up to 35mpg on a run ;-) Gareth |
| Gareth Kidman |
| Of course Ian Rusbridge of Surrey will already know the reliabilty of of the Maestro and its fuel consumption! :-) Ian is one of many ZR owners, now moving up to the V6, several other ZR owners I have heard of have decided that it is already time to upgrade! Why did u not choose ZS180 in the first instance Ian? Kelv |
| Kelvin |
| Kelv & John, - Trophy yellow, to match the Monty race car Neil and I are supposed to be building and sharing (if I ever get off my ar5e and my garage gets above 0 degrees...). And yes the Vtec goes, 70k of hard use and never missed a beat - I do expect the ZS to be just as reliable, and from what I hear the fuel consumption will be about the same IE 25 to 30 mpg. |
| David |
| 35+MPG............are you sure? Never got anywhere near that in mine! |
| Mike |
| Kelvin Simple. Couldn't afford it last year and I missed out on the MG 30odd % discount scheme by a couple of months. But, the upgrade to the ZS is not that much and seems an offer I can't refuse! As said, the V6 ZS does seem an obvious replacement for the Maestro or Monty turbo. Whilst my Maestro was 100% reliable I needed a new car for work reasons, hence the Zr at the time. Can't wait... |
| Ian R |
| 35+ yes!, only once though, a very long run, at a very sedate pace... this is not the norm!! |
| Kelvin |
| Reliability 100%(12k now) Fuel 33mpg on a run, 25mpg when having fun. Needless to say moer fun than run :-) |
| S Forbes |
| how do insurance rates compare for a 180 as opposed to more mundane cars please? |
| Tony |
| oh no reply from michael moore |
| Ian cresswell |
| ZS180 I think is grp 15 or 16? Similar grouping to Maestro/Monty Turbo. I'm 45, full no claims bonus, payed around £380 fully comp. |
| Kelvin |
| "oh no reply from michael moore" Whats there to say? I have been proved right ;) Ian C Your initial post suggested that buying a ZS was a downward move from a Maestro Turbo. Judging by some of the replies here you are wrong. Clearly statistics prove that the ZS180 is equal to the meastro in performance and in some cases better. It out handles it,out brakes it, has a better interior and load carrying with the only downside being maybe fuel consumption. Yourself and Gareth both have "modified" maestros which hardly gives a fair comparrison when judging the merits of both cars in there standard forms,i might a well start going on about how fast a ZS would go with a T16 in it. But that said it still think i'd give both you boyz a hard time in your "modified" cars and unless you nailed me from a standing start i'd be right up there with you! Michael |
| m moore |
| Tony, before I bought my ZS I got quotes for both the ZS120 and ZS180. The 180 was £100 cheaper than the 120! In fact it was the same price as the MGF 1.8i that the ZS replaced. Ralph |
| Ralph |
| >>>>>Ian C Your initial post suggested that buying a ZS was a downward move from a Maestro Turbo. <<<<<<<< And you took him seriously? Ian was only messing around, you know, in a joking fashion? >>>>>Clearly statistics prove that the ZS180 is equal to the meastro in performance and in some cases better. <<<<<<<< Almost in agreement with you there... >>>has a better interior and load carrying with the only downside being maybe fuel consumption<<<<<<< My interior isn't the same as a Honda Civic (no offence guys but its nothing special) and a Maestro has better carrying capacity. Fuel consumption on both models is sh*te though... >>>>>Yourself and Gareth both have "modified" maestros which hardly gives a fair comparrison when judging the merits of both cars in there standard forms,<<<<< So we are faster than you then?? :-)) >>>>>>>i might a well start going on about how fast a ZS would go with a T16 in it.<<<<<< We would still beat you... >>>>>But that said it still think i'd give both you boyz a hard time in your "modified" cars and unless you nailed me from a standing start i'd be right up there with you!<<<<<<< I doubt it, i play with Cossie and Celica Gt-4 boys, you wouldnt stand a chance, seriously! Gareth :-) |
| Gareth Kidman |
| MG Enthusiasts , Settle down .... less of this mine's faster and better than your'n' malarkey. I have to confess I like both the Zeds and the old Montego/Maestro Turbos and care little which is better .... and all being well, this household will complete the set and have examples of all soon ... good eh ...:o) David "Trophy Yellow ZS180 on order", Way to go! Great "low profile" colour choice .... unlike the Honda ! .... LOL On this mine's faster than your'n topic ... I matched strides with a ZS today (me in bog standard Montego Turbo) and got the impression I'd struggle to get ahead if at all. This silver car had the lower, smaller rear spoiler .... do some of the ZS180s come with smaller spoilers? Otherwise I was matching strides with a ZS120 ..... DOH! ... LOL. Finally, I've seen Gareth's Maestro turbo in action .... it's seriously nippy ... more :o) JMcF |
| John McFeely |
| You can have the 'discreet spoiler' if you wish, most opt for the 'extreme spoiler' K |
| Kelvin |
| ", i play with Cossie and Celica Gt-4 boys, you wouldnt stand a chance, seriously!" So do i M8,but unlike you and Ian i can keep playing with them when they hit the twisty stuff ;) |
| m moore |
| M Mooore what really makes you think a well driven Maestro Turbo couldnt keep up round the corners??? GK |
| Gareth Kidman |
| I dont wish to prolong this argument, and Gareth you know what a long time supporter of the Maestro I am, but not matter how well driven a Maestro around corners, it cant compete with a well driven ZS. Kelvin |
| Kelvin |
| HALLELUJAH Kelvin! I find it very interesting that the boyz judge how fast their cars are by quoting monster power figuars. You will find most ZS180 owners gain speed by how quick they slow into a corner and how fast they carry speed into and out of corners. You boyz may be kings of the A12 but put on the track against me and i'd show the limitations of the maestro's chassis.It would be lambs to the slaughter! Michael :) |
| m moore |
| spoilers - IIRC the saloon can have either spoiler but the hatch (my choice) only has the smaller one... |
| David |
| Hmmm..... Whatever. You just have no respect for the maestro whatsoever do you? Have you even driven one? I'm done now.. GK |
| Gareth Kidman |
| Got a kick out of this thread but then depression set it - I'm jealous of all of you and your car choices!!! Dan |
| Dan D |
| Me!, have no respect for the Maestro? I was one of the founder members of the MG'M' Group. Owned a Maestro for many years. along with three Montego Turbos. Since 1991, between the vehicles listed above, I would think I've driven close on 100,000 miles... so Yes! I've driven one. I'm a strong defender of the Maestro, but there is a big gap in years between the models, an is unfair to compare the cars against one another.. As stated before, anyone moving on from their old Maestro/Montego, wishing to reaming in MG ownership, then one of the new Zeds has to be the way to go! and now I'm done! Kelvin |
| Kelvin |
| Kelvin you seem to have me all wrong. I do know who you are, and what position you used to hold within the MGM group. I'm aware of all the cars you used to own as well. It's M Moore that i directed my last post to, not yourself. I do think the age gap is irrevelant. I say this, because a friend of mine has a 1998 3 Door Civic that he has recently spent alot of money on. Coilover suspension, 17 inch wheels, large bodykit blad dee blah, he has recently converted to VTEC, it has a chipped Mugen ECU allowing it to rev to 8500rpm, full induction kit and de-cat pipe, free flowing exhaust system etc. Estimate power approx 190bhp. Now, which car got left behind last night trying to keep up? And on previous occasions, why does he struggle to keep up round the corners despite a 'superior' multi link suspension set up on the rear and double wishbones on the front? There's 15 years difference in design, yet i still had to tow him home last night when his alternator failed.. There is nothing wrong with the suspension on Maestro's, it's identical to that of many cars including the Mk1/Mk2 Golf and even the ZR uses the same H beam rear axle as the Maestro, and no-one doubts that cars handling abilites? Don't get me wrong, i'm not blind to the fact that in standard from, body roll is excessive, but the ingredients are there. With lowered suspension and decent shock absorbers, i can outhandle many FWD cars, often steering the car round corners using the throttle quite easily before understeer sets in. I do think if someone took you out for a ride in a decent well looked after example you would be genuinely surprised. As for the brakes, IMO yes the car is underbraked as STD but i've never had brake fade even when slowing down from speeds of upto 130mph. Read magazine tests at the time and you'll also see they mentioned the brakes were sufficent, so were you get this perception from i DO not know. This isn't about saying the Maestro is BETTER than a ZS, but it DOESN'T pale in comparison despite its older design and general public 'hate' image. I thank you. Gareth |
| Gareth Kidman |
| Gareth, You and others may be all done but I'm not ...:O) Your only answer must be to have both. I know you'll enjoy both. So start saving .. Sorted! In my so far limited experience of Zeds, and considerable experience of both MG Maestros and Montegos (been driving both regularly since they first came out nearly twenty years ago), bog standard versions of both cars would show the ZS180 as superior in most, repeat only most performance areas. Carrying capacity there's no comparison ... in fact no contest .... I believe even the Montego would be superior here ... LOL. BTW, you fed up with "my" Ex-VVCs already .... or a bit skint? LOL. Driven several T16 modified MG Montegos now. Bog standard ZS180s would not live with them but that's never a fair means of measurement. Now put some sort of blower on that KV6 .... My kind of car ... way to go! Dan D, New Joisey WROTE: >> Got a kick out of this thread but then depression set it - I'm jealous of all of you and your car choices!!! << Like your style Dan but cheer up. Why not do what several (understatement) of your countrymen have done? ... visit then decide to prolong their stay .... on poinament basis! Open house over here in the good old UK at the moment ( poor topical joke? ). All comers welcome. Then like us, you'll be spoilt for choice :o)) David, Thanks for the spoiler info. So you're having a high profile colour with a low profile spoiler. Bit of a Q car like the old Honda .... Will you be using it to tow the Monty Turbo? Anyway, look forward to seeing it later on this year. So, it was almost certainly NOT a ZS120 which managed to match strides with my old F reg. Montego turbo .... Phew! Glad about that ...LOL Happy MotorinG all |
| John McFeely |
| >>>>>>BTW, you fed up with "my" Ex-VVCs already .... or a bit skint? LOL.<<<<<<<< Someone wanted a set of VVC alloys and i can get hold of some bigger MGF wheels for about the same price i'm asking hence... But i still like them and havent kerbed them once you'll be pleased to hear.. Gareth |
| Gareth Kidman |
| Just to clarify a point about the rear spoilers. Both the ZS 180 and ZS 120 come with the extreme spoiler on the 4 door version, and a different 'large' spoiler on the 5 door version. The small spoiler is available as an option on either version. As many ZS120s are fitted with the option of 17" wheels, side sill finishers and bib spoiler (mine included) the only way to really tell (from a distance) is the 180 badge on the back. |
| JLD |
| right after reading this thread i better add comments!!! when the mgs were relesed in ipswich i went to the test drive day and all i can say is i was very dissapointed yes they look the nuts and do have a sporty feel which is very now! and yes they do handle very well and corner well but the overall feel was dull and boring no tourqe or power band on cam just smooth power which is wot middle aged men want. i was happy to jump back in my maestro and feel proper power! regarding the handling problems maestros 10 plus old so most parts bit worn as well zs in 10 yrs. with decent shocks, bushs, wheels and tyres brakes and pads the maestro will piss the new mgs. and of course you can get the power up so easy on the maestro 50% more then standard so parts need to be upgarded to allow for this extra power. the race mastros 2 ltr ones go round the track like hell fire and they handle lovely so i cant the prob with maestro handling bit of a old wives tale they handle bad. stnadard brakes with crap pads and ten yr old fluid will fade but for rd use is more then enough to get fade on rd u have to driving like a twat. on top gear they put allsorts of cars aginst each other on that track and as u can see it is very hard to get a faster time no matter wot bhp your running its all down to driving not the car. all the best max |
| max |
| Oh boy,some of you Maestro owners certainly have a chip on the shoulder ;) "with decent shocks, bushs, wheels and tyres brakes and pads the maestro will piss the new mgs." LOL M8,thats quite some list you have there ;) Couple of points Max you talk of smooth power but i prefer to call this progressive power,when i'm cornering at high speed(significantly faster than maestro)i like to bring the power back on smoothly and not like the maestro all at once which i find rather CRUDE by todays standards.You have got to realise that KV6 is like a rolex and the "O" more like a timex. Also you say that cars tested on track find it very hard to get a faster time no matter wot bhp your running . Cant agree there. Autocar tested the ZS against the very best of todays crop of fast cars and it came second to the 172 by a couple of tenths, the other cars were either 1-3 seconds slower which is a lot of time on a circuit. Ive tracked against cars that have the modification you discribe but also with T16's and they didn't piss all over me,in fact i found it embarrassingly easy to keep up but you know what they say"all that power dont count for nothing if you cant put it down on the road" ;) Right i'm not out to slag the Maestro off but its of its day and it was very good in its day but times have moved on and now is the time of the ZS180 :) Michael |
| m moore |
| Well, the ZS180 in trophy blue with Extreme rear spoiler is to be collected this coming Saturday. I was the only Maestro turbo driver near me, and there aren't many ZS's near me, so back to try to start a trend... |
| Ian R |
| Thanks for the thought, John... Is it warmer over there than here right now??!! Dan D freezing in NJ |
| Dan D |
| Michael Just out of curiosity do you know what the fastest FWD car in the UK is. |
| Ian cresswell |
| Ian, before he asks, do you mean top speed, or 0 to 60, or.... |
| David |
| Ian If you mean Quarter mile then i know all about Andy Nicholls car,but then it is HIGHLY MODIFIED just like many ZS's will be in years to come. How good is it on the track ;) horses for course's M8 Btw i'm going to keep a look out for your BRG turbo on my travels as i fancy doing some Maestro slaying ;) Michael (maestro slayer) |
| m moore |
| Sorry I dont frequent many test tracks. Also the rover 400 has been around for ages yet there appears to be a lack of any modified ones, wonder why. |
| Ian cresswell |
| Well then, delivery has been taken and quite a lot of fun been had! Even my girlfriend enjoys driving the car and I think there will be tussles over the keys that never happened with the ZR! |
| Ian R |
| ZS180 vs Maestro Turbo (un modified) Maestro always quicker cause it weighs less due to all the holes in the body work :D :D :D Only joking guys..... both good motors, agree with michael out of the corners the ZS will win every time, in a straight line not so sure. The Maestro was a very under-rated motor for its time and un modified went very well, although standard handling was questionable. Maybe it should be down to cost of ownership a Maestro turbo nowadays can be picked up for next to nothing so V.F.M for track use is a good option. But for day to day use the ZS will win as obviously reliability long term will be better with the quality of newer components. |
| mikeyboy |
This thread was discussed between 07/01/2003 and 28/01/2003
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