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MG ZR ZS ZT Technical - Come on MGR we want more!

This is BMW's response to the latest from Merc and Audi.

http://www.bmwworld.com/models/m5_e60.htm

My Mate has just gone and ordered one
it makes the ZT V8 look positively underpowered.

So 2 questions
1. Why didnt MGR use BMW V8 engines in the V8 ZT?
ok cost ...but a few grand wouldn't make that much difference
2. What are MGR going to answer back with? If they are in the game of Ubersaloons, as Tom Peters says "To compete you have to Compete!"





Neil

I like BMW boasting that it has the engine from the Williams F1 car. Surely far more impressive if they could boast the engine from the Ferrari F1 car! Or they could change the boast to "the car for those who don't like winning!"
Patrick Beet

Well, if PAG can stick two Ford Duratec V6 engines together to make a V12 for Aston Martin why can't MGR do it to the KV6?
Adrian

Adrian!

Absolutely!

KV12 utterly awesome! It is supposed to be a modular engine designed to do this from 3 cyl pop pops to monster multicylinders. And Why is it that MGR make sucha a big deal out of the development?

We have often groaned about the lack of a KV8 lost as a result of BMW's tenure and the fact that they didnt like to competition!

BMW did the same cut and shut job with 2 current M5 V8's to produce a V16 for the RR convertible 100ex
http://www.autosite.com/Previews/concept-rolls-royce-100ex.asp


I think that MGR have bitter memories from the last time they tried doing this with the then award winning OHC slant 4 as used in the Triumph Dolomite 1850 and Sprint. They produced the underdeveloped Stag (or similarly sounding word) engine. Anyhow the Ford 'Stang V8 is dirt cheap to buy off the shelf probably less than £2000 a unit !! probably much less, and it actually fitted into the engine bay of the ZT without too much grief. The 4 valve Mustang engine needs bulkhead work to fit into the available space, which is a shame, but again I think that the 4v engine was again a lot more money.

Oh well if I ever win the lottery
I would get a decent engineering company to stick 2 KV6's together and then get So-Cal to fit it into a ZT260

Then it would be simply a case of listening out for the sound of Spitfires!!!
Neil

Ahh yes, the Stag V8...

In the same vein of the tale of two brothers compare the Stag story with what Saab did with their version.
Adrian

>> So 2 questions
1. Why didnt MGR use BMW V8 engines in the V8 ZT?
ok cost ...but a few grand wouldn't make that much difference <<

Because the Zed cars didn't exist when BMW owned Rover and after the sell off, there were strict concessions imposed on MGR as to what BMW components they could use and how much they would cost. And a few grand difference, per car, soon adds up to a very big difference indeed. MGR are cost sutting like crazy at the moment - you just need to look at all the deleted trim from the F in the TF to see that they are counting every last penny.

>> 2. What are MGR going to answer back with? If they are in the game of Ubersaloons, as Tom Peters says "To compete you have to Compete!" <<

Do they want to compete? Or more importantly, can they compete at this level? Given thier current financial circumstances and ageing product lines i doubt developing a 'halo' uber saloon is top of thier priorities at the moment. Would be great to see them come up with one, but i doubt it'll happen anytime soon.

SF
Scarlet Fever

Hmm, you're right Andy, but a KV12 does sound like a rather wonderful concept! :o)
Rob Bell

yeah and the V8 and V12 that Volvo are working on are pretty damn scary too
Neil

I wonder where they'd put a KV12? I think that the front seats would have to go to get it in, or put it in the back of a tourer.
Dan Smithers

Ditch the SV. Let's have a proper mid-engined V12 supercar!

Hmm, what did I put in my coffee this morning?¤
Rob Bell

Well, if sticking two KV6 engines in-line creates a KV12 that is too long, how about putting them one under the other in a X pattern! a KX12!

Adrian

W12?

Hey Rob...junk the SV!?!

is that sacrelege ...or actually... clear thinking?

too expensive, and ironically might not be fast enough
or even not special/pretty enough?

Neil

Unless I'm missunderstanding I wasn't thinking W configuration, but X. Two banks of cylinders point upwards and two downwards. Bit like an aero engine, although I would lay the X on its side so that the top & bottom angles were 120 degrees and 60 degrees each side.

Imagine changing the plugs on that!
Adrian

>> too expensive, and ironically might not be fast enough or even not special/pretty enough? <<

Hate to say it, but yes - the SV doesn't pull on the emotional heart strings strongly enough does it?

Hmm - KX12??? What car would you build round that beast of an engine? The inlet plenums would be a challenge to design too wouldn't they? Not to mention the exhaust manifolds... But if VW can do a w12 with two VR6s stapled together, then why not?
Rob Bell

Hmmm, inlet and exhaust manifolds?

How about we don't build it in the usual way (inlets facing together, exhust on the outside) but build it so that the exhaust are always on (say) the left-hand side of each of the four blocks as you go round the engine. That way a bank of exhaust ports is always facing the inlet ports of the neighbouring block.

Then add four turbochargers feeding off one block and into the neighbouring one.
Adrian

After reading Cannonball Bob's exploits in The Alps I dug out my copy of the Italian Job to watch that opening scene.

That is when it struck me what MGR should be doing to produce a Big Brother for the TF/Elise - a latter-day Miura!

You wanted to know what vehicle should take the KV12. Well, picture a Miura-2 with the KV12 transversely mounted behind the cabin. Also, the Miura chassis design looks remarkably like the Elise and I'm sure could be brought up-to-date with all that bonded aluminium etc.

Now that would be a car to pull on the emotional heart strings.
Adrian

Hmm - a proper latter day K3 by the sounds of things Adrian :o)
Rob Bell

This thread was discussed between 17/08/2004 and 06/09/2004

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