MG-Cars.info
MG ZR ZS ZT Technical Z Cars losing momentum BBS discussion at MG-Cars.info
MG-Cars.info
Welcome to our Site for MG, Triumph and Austin-Healey Car Information.
Parts
MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.
|
|
MG ZR ZS ZT Technical - Z Cars losing momentum
| No entries under this thread for FIVE days !! If MGR does not give the range regular updates or PR, it is likely to just fade away. |
| Tony |
| Most Z owners now use other forums, MEGA drove so many people from here it is untrue. The Zeds are certainly NOT loosing momentum!! Kelvin |
| Kelvin |
| The aweful truth is surely that the Z range are just saloons and people buy saloons as practical means of transport. It is difficult to get too passionate about a practical means of transport (even when it is a tweeked Rover 25!). A sports cars is wildly impractical and people buy this out of a passion for open top motoring and the driving pleasure! Compare and contrast the passion for upgrading Fs with the complete absents of such activity on the Zs (or any saloon other than the Corsa...?). Mega is a poor excuse. His prime target was a dislike of the F and yet the F boards are still proospering.... Go the whole hog and get a sports car! Cheers Patrick |
| Patrick Beet |
| er also inaccurate. One post yesterday and 3 the day before. |
| Patrick Beet |
| oh, and 5 today! |
| Patrick Beet |
| I did not buy a ZS as practical means of transport.. I was not making excuses with MEGA either, stating fact! Not sure Ive come across you before Patrick, so Im unsure which shoulder the chip is on? I dont know what MG you own, but I certainly would not run it down! Why such a negative attitude toward fellow MG enthusiast? Kelvin |
| Kelvin |
| This is getting a bit scary. I appreciate that that the other boards seem to be inhabited by those whose sensitivity verges on paranoia, BUT on what planet is suggesting a car is "practical" viewed as running it down or displaying a "negative attitude" to other MG ethusiasts. I have an F. Your car has twice as many seats and doors than mine. It has hugely larger boot than mine. It is much quieter on the motorway than mine. Seems more practical than a F to me. I also have a 75 Estate becuase I want a more practical car and am sure I would not be offended by the suggestion that it is PRACTICAL. Cheers Patrick PS Please do not tell me you are upset with the tweeked 25 comment. This is surely a statement of the bleeding obvious. |
| Patrick Beet |
| You suggest to me that the fact you see it as a practical car, then by definition it not a sports car... I certainly got negative vibes from your comments, if I was wrong then I apologise! In your eyes is my car the, the ZS180 as a sports car or even an MG? Kelvin |
| Kelvin |
| Must add me 2.00 p. I am in the fortunate position of driving both a TF160 and a ZR160. If its a nice sunny day the TF wins hands down (nowt better than driving with the hood down), however if the sun isn't out and about then the ZR will always take the crown, I find the car an absolute dream to drive and from my own point of view handles better than the TF. I and many other people who own Z cars are indeed very passionate about their motor. I for one love mine and wouldn't swop it for anything (well maybe a tuscan S). At the end of the day I hope we are all passionate about the MG marque and what it stands for. Kev |
| K Blades |
| Anyway, back to the BBS thing. I have to say that the 'other' Z-cars boards aren't exactly crammed full of exciting stuff at the moment. I reckon it's just a mixture of: 1. less Zs than Fs 2. Zs not apparently experiencing many faults (yet!) 3. few aftermarket mods available yet 4. initial rush of MG-freaks to buy Z's now over. The F boards on this BBS seem to fluctuate a lot. Sometimes they're full of rubbish and sometimes they take ages to read because they're so interesting! By the way, why is this board called 'Z Saloons' when most Z's are in fact not saloons? Maybe it just sounds better than 'tarted up Rovers'! I love my F and our ZS, so won't be tempted to join in the other argument. This much car for a combined £26K just seems to good to be true... |
| David Bainbridge |
| Kelvin, My view is that a sports car are the likes of the MG TD/TF (real one), A, B, C, F, TF, Austin Healey, TR2/3/4/5/6 (not the hateful 7), E Types, Morgans, Cobras, Corvettes (cars, not anti submarine ships) etc. While I am happy to acknowledge the Zs as MGs, to me they are saloons not sports cars. Just to get it into context, I have difficulty with the thought of a BGT or E Type coupe are sports cars. Cheers Patrick |
| Patrick Beet |
| >I have difficulty with the thought of a BGT or E Type coupe are sports cars.< Oh dear, that rather says it all. The Universal Dictionary defines a sports car as follows: " A mass produced car usually with two seats, having a low centre of gravity and, often, a folding or removable roof. Its steering and suspension are designed for precise control at high speeds on curving roads." On the issue of seats and folding roof it leaves the option open for the other alternatives, but it is specific on the centre of gravity, steering and suspension. There are some, not me I hasten to add, who would argue that the 'F' is not a sports car within that definition. Patrick, it’s always dangerous to tell a BGT owner that he doesn't own a sports car - we tend to bite:-) Cheers Mike |
| Michael Williams |
| Surely if we have to have pigeonholes for cars, the Zeds are either Hot Hatches (ZRs) or Sports Saloons (ZS and ZT). I drive a Mk1 MGF, but wouldn't have a moment's hesitation in choosing a Zed (probably ZS180 saloon, funds permitting) as a sporty/practical combination if/when the appeal of open top roadster motoring becomes outweighed by the wish to have 4 seats and more luggage space, but still the urge to drive for pleasure has not subsided! Horses for courses chaps. For what its worth, my experience, as Kev will no doubt testify too, is that there's generally a good sense of a "Marque of Friendship MkII" between drivers of Zeds, Fs and (new) TFs, perhaps more focussed on what my favourite magazine calls "Evoness" and driving for pleasure than the Concourse showing favoured by the classic car owners. Diggers |
| Diggers |
| Well Michael, my defence is the words "I have difficulty with...". We both seem to agree that a sports car should have no more than 2 seats and probably a folding soft top. The trouble I have with the BGT is that it just seems too damned practical! Cheers Patrick |
| Patrick Beet |
| Patrick >sports car should have no more than 2 seats< That I can't agree with and neither does the dictionary definition. They leave the option open; "usually with two seats", and so would I. >The trouble I have with the BGT is that it just seems too damned practical!< Why, because it has a roof or an excuse for a back seat? The Webasto deals with the roof (until some bugger puts a slit in it and then you have an open top)and the back seat is the most impractical inclusion in a car I have ever seen. Elise and MR2 owners have argued that the F/TF cannot be sports cars as they are too practical. Given your line of argument they could have a point. Cheers Mike |
| Michael Williams |
| Am reading unusual comments-slightly off the subject perhaps,but pleased to see new life in the MGZ thread ! However am awaiting some contribution from MGR themselves-maybe will have to await the Motor Show & reactions to the new ZT 260 ? PS Forgot to add:Wonderful absence of Mega,but that maybe tempting fate! |
| Tony |
| MIchael, When they say "usually with two seats", I assumed this was to cater for those with only one! Cheers Patrick |
| Patrick Beet |
| Patrick, Apart from being unpractical, a sportscar is supposed to be fast and should handle vey well. An F is way to practical compared to my Elise, besides it aint fast at all and it's cornering abilities are poor. Besides an F has too many dodgy options that just add weight! Believe me, an F is NOT a sportscar. Concerning your statement that MG sport saloons owner buy an MG for practical reasons i disagree. It's indeed not a sportscar, but definitely not a dull saloon like the 75 is. I'm extremely passionate about my Trophy Yellow MG ZT-T. It's pretty fast, although not extremely, but it really handles well and it's fun to drive. And it's practical, which is a handy option. Which brings me to the conclusion: You don't know what a sportscar is! So pay a visit to your local Lotus, Caterham, Noble, Ariel, Radical, TVR or Ultima dealer this weekend and have a testdrive. You'd be amazed to find out what real sportscars have to offer! |
| Koen |
| We visit this site daily to read. Will post more often in future. A good way to generate interest in the site might be to all meet up sometime. We are pretty central and would help organise if BBS'ers wanted such an event here's offering |
| nik & Anita |
| >>>Believe me, an F is NOT a sportscar. Oh dear oh dear, another endless argument by people who cannot or will not see other's points of view. Might as well channel your bigotry and go attack Iraq.... BTW although I'll admit that the kit-cars mentioned are sports cars, not all sports cars are kit-cars, thankfully. I was fortunate to learn early in life that a well-maintained MG is a very economic and fun car for everyday use. I was also fortunate that the 2 years of Lotus 7 ownership in my twenties did not mentally scar me for life.... |
| David |
| Tony >Am reading unusual comments-slightly off the subject< Perhaps that’s the problem with this Board. You hesitate to contribute unless you have something to say that is specific to Z cars. And, lets face it, it ain’t easy to generate long term excitement and enthusiasm about wing mirrors and brake upgrades. And, if your future excitement depends on press releases from MGR, god help you. OK, so Patrick and I ended up arguing about a definition of sports cars in general and MGBs in particular. It may have been “slightly off the subject” but hardly “unusual” for us. Some of the best threads on the F Board have had precious little to do with Fs. Some of the purists have a problem with that, but they can read something else while we are enjoying ourselves. Someone usually manages to get some token F content into threads on current affairs that run over a 100 posts, but it isn’t a prerequisite. If you want to give this Board some life, broaden the discussion, get controversial, go with the flow and stop being so damned nice to each other. Cheers Mike |
| Michael Williams |
| Mike, "get controversial & stop being so damned nice"-this was Mega's recipe and 80% of readers wanted to get rid of him! Don't know where he has gone,but there may well exist sites of the kind you favour. |
| Tony |
| LOL David, what point of view? Not every 2 seater topless thing with 4 wheels is a Sportscar, it's a roadster. It has nothing to do with other people's point of view, it's just a fact. Just like my grandmother is not a teenager and a flat is not a villa. Koen |
| Koen |
| Koen, You post seems strong on emotion but weak on logic. Michael has already posted a dictionary definition of a "sports car" and would suggest that this describes the F pretty well. Sports cars are largely about handling not speed. The two top selling sports cars (MGB and MX5) were never the fastest cars on the road! If you see speed as critical then I suspect the Elise top speed is no different to an F (the F might even be faster.....) I have already said that calling the Zs saloons was a statement of fact and intended as no insult or suggestion that they were dull. You of course do not have a saloon, you have an estate which is surely the most practical type of car on the planet (I don't see MPVs are cars!). It is very dangerous to make assumptions based on zero knowledge. I have driven the Elise, Cateham 7 and 911 on corporate track days. I am fully aware of the fun to be had. However I could only have one of the first 2 as a third car as lady wife does not like travelling in either. This also means I could no use then for European holidays. I don't need a third car! Since you enjoy your ZT T and to keep the thread going I thought you might be interested in this item. Apparently it is from the Sun. I hasten to add that I do not read this grim rag but someone found it on their web site! Cheers Patrick PS I am in full agreement with Michael that a BBS should be a vibrant place were people exchange differing views. The highly moderatored (censored?) boards seem like a nun's convention in comparison to this place! Jeremy Clarkson Over the last few months I've been singing the praises of Rover's rejuvenated model line-up. It may be nothing more than a bunch of old cars with MG badges nailed to their bonnets but they look good, go like stink and are exceptional value for money. This week, however, I've been driving the most expensive of the lot. The MG ZT-T which, when translated into English, means Rover 75 estate with big wheels, bigger power and the de rigeur MG badging. I was never a fan of the 75 when it first came out. It looked like a Harvester Restaurant with a sunroof. "Have you driven a Rover before, sir?" No, or I wouldn't be back for more. The problem was simple. Back then Rover was being run by BMW, who thought that a typically British car should have acres of wood and leather. They were wrong of course. The typically British car was so much more than that. Yes it had wood and yes it had leather but it also had steam coming out of the radiator, and one of the quality controller's potted meat sandwiches under the passenger seat. Rover's new owners changed everything. On this MG version, they tore out the wood and replaced it with a cool metallic dash. They ditched the traditional Dr Finlay cream dials with what look like Swiss watches. And the seats are now figure-hugging buckets rather than World Of Leather recliners. They didn't stop there either. On the outside they fitted 18-inch alloys and twin exhausts. And under the bonnet they rummaged around in the 2.5-litre V6 engine so now you get 190bhp. Rover, the dusty old Fifties dog, became East End Boy - a greyhound to be reckoned with. Having tried the smaller, cheaper MG models my hopes were high. But they were dashed. First of all, no amount of after-market tinkering can get away from the fact that this estate is awfully dreary to behold. Then there's the engine. It's smooth and I'm sure the power's there somewhere. But I couldn't find it. I must also say that while the interior looks great - there are probably none better in this class - it is cramped. With the seat pushed fully back, my three-year-old daughter complained and I still couldn't get my knees under the wheel. My advice is simple then. Instead of spending £22,000 on a ZT, go for a ZS, which is based on the old Rover 45. This is more spacious, much more fun to drive and better looking. And best of all, you can pick one up for £13,500. If you want a hatch, there's always the old Rover 25, now available as an MG ZS. That starts at under ten grand. I just have one word of warning. I'm starting to hear stories from MG Rover customers about an acute shortage of spare parts. So if something goes wrong, you might have a problem. Will something go wrong? Of course not. They're British. Gulp. |
| Patrick Beet |
| Patrick, You're absolutely right concerning handling of the car, which should be top and when i referred to 'fast' i didn't mean topspeed, but acceleration and cornering speeds (which is ofcourse directly related to handling). Im not interested in topspeed, and my choice for the Elise reflects that. I guess a dictionary defenition of the words 'precise control' and 'high speed' should give us insight whether the F and MX5 are sportscars. In my view of 'precise control' and 'high speed' they are not. I heard of other persons that women tend to dislike driving or travelling in Elises. Luckily my wife enjoys it a lot. And concerning Jeremy Clarkson's view on the ZT-T, i do agree with him that a ZS 180 is far more fun to drive, but I guess the ZT-T is a nice compromise if you have a 2 year old daughter and 4 month old twins :-) Spent the whole morning packing the car as they go to my parents for a few days. About the spare parts, i am now waiting for 9 weeks on a new KV6 engine after a bearing failure at 4000 miles. Do they break down? Sure, they're British. Do I care, hell no, they're British. Koen |
| Koen |
| Tony >Mega's recipe and 80% of readers wanted to get rid of him! Don't know where he has gone,but there may well exist sites of the kind you favour.< Tony pleeease, Mega has never had enough grey cells to formulate a recipe and besides I always thought he was sickeningly polite. A quick flick through your archives for this year, suggests that you have had 1 thread that struggled past 50 posts and many of the others that managed double figures, were debates with Mega. Mega gets banned for a while, interest in the site wanes, and you are posting a doom and gloom thread like this one. Of course Mega is a prat but the evidence suggests that 80% of your readers enjoy tangling with him. For example, tonight Mega posted on this Board at 17.22. By 18.09 he had 2 replies – it rather suggests that Z Cars are not loosing momentum when Mega is around. Mega brings some fun and controversy to the Board – join in and enjoy, but don’t let him make the running because he hasn’t two grey cells to rub together. Cheers Mike |
| Michael Williams |
| The attitude of some of you on this BBS does put a lot of peeps off. Mega brings some great views onto here, without him the boards are DEAD, everyone has deserted the place. Quote "Why such a negative attitude toward a fellow MG enthusiast?" Sums it up nicely. |
| Grey Matter |
| >>>a fellow MG enthusiast? ===get real - he has never AFAIK said a good word for MG |
| David |
| >'Why such a negative attitude toward a fellow MG enthusiast' I said that and was refering to Patricks comments, not MEGA. Dont take the quote out of context. kelv |
| Kelvin |
| Tony I agree with your opening sentence. MGR are freshening the cars - suggest you go to the motorshow! Of corse what else were the ZEDS than a Rover freshen! See you at the motorshow. Jerry PS. Who is MEGA? |
| Jerry Flint |
| OK Jerry,will come back after I see what is fresh at the motor show. (Unless its on your site before that !) |
| Tony |
| could the lack of interest is that this BBS is so out of date and the younger Zed buyers are not turned on by its woefully inadequate setup. Nothing to do with the cars if you go on some of the other internet forums e.g. xpowerforums which are buzzing. |
| lmgzs180 |
This thread was discussed between 01/10/2002 and 19/10/2002
MG ZR ZS ZT Technical index
This thread is from the archives. Join the live MG ZR ZS ZT Technical BBS now