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MG ZR ZS ZT Technical - ZR-160 Police mode,

Hi all.

A freind of mine has a ZR-160, his been looking around the BBS sites on my PC and has come across this *police mode* thing mentioned in some threads. Can one of you guys explain what it does please.

Thanks
Terry

gud question, iv just read about it 2. im goin 2 my dealer 2moz, im goin 2 ask + try and get it done. il get bak 2 u if i find out! bet my dealer doesnt hava clue wont im on about.
michael

the police mode is programmed into your cars ecu by use of a testbook (laptop) and a cd from mgr.
all dealers have this equiptment as every new mg needs to be programmed by the dealer at time of pdi (pre delivery inspection).
on the testbook screen are several options icons, the mechanic basicaly clicks on police mode. the other options include eurpean market, etc, depending on the chosen countrys emmision laws, etc.
the process takes all of 5 mins to download via a lead under the dash / steering coloumn.
i had my car on a rolling road last week and the graph shows the torque comming in at just over 2000rpm and staying there untill 5700rpm before dropping at 5800rpm, which before it seemed to be around 4-4500rpm before the power came in.
this basically means to get more low down power - better acceleration lower down the rev range so you dont have to rev the nuts off the car.
the peak power however doesn't come in untill6768rpm when 151bhp is quoted.
rob

Well done ROB!
I think this needs to go to press, why not give the results to one of the MG mags?
Don't for get the graph!
Mega.
Mega

And they call it "Police Mode" because it attracts police cars, right?

:)

G
Gryfon Ketcherside

just had my zr160 put in 2 police mode, it tuk 30min and was free!!! the first 2 gears u cant tell the differents, but 3/4/5 u can quite alot more pull low down about 3000rpm. it gets the thumbs up from me! thanks u lot! i didnt even know about til 2 days ago.
michael

Looks like you get a bit more low down torque and loose a few top end horses, not a bad swap, IMO.

Steve.
Steve Childs

michael, glad to be of assistance - would recommend this "mod"to everyone.
i suppose the police mode is for the unmarked cars that are/will be about soon, enabling them to set off a bit quicker to catch up with someone.

mega, if you know of a web address i could send the graph to then i would be only too pleased, i sent it to moto-build.com but my server sent it back?
don't understand computers much

rob
rob

Rob,

The posting from Steve above your last is a good place to send the info too. Steve runs www.mg-rover.org, which is a well visited site. I do wonder if the same mode is to be available on the TF160, which would be of considerable interest to TF owners.

Rog
Roger Parker

Talking to my local dealer, Police mode is available for all Zeds.
JLD

Hi Steve, i've sent you some pics, hope you'll post them
cheers
rob
rob

Is police mode only available for the top spec engines or is there a equivalent for the lower spec engines?

Many Thanks,
Andy
Andy

All specs as far as I know.

Will possibly be more popular with the lower powered engined to make them pull better at lowere revs.
JLD

>> I do wonder if the same mode is to be available on the TF160, which would be of considerable interest to TF owners. <<

There was me wondering exactly the same question Rog! ;o) I can't think why this alternate MEMS programme wouldn't work on the TF...
Rob Bell

What is the effect on insurance rating - or hasn't anyone bothered to tell them?
Paul Hunt

howdy,

just asked my dealer for the mod and was told that they'd never heard of it and if they did (!) that the warranty would be invalidated

arse


ROY

>>just asked my dealer for the mod and was told that they'd never heard of it and if they did (!) that the warranty would be invalidated<<

So police cars are sold without warranty eh? Think not. Sounds like you have a dealer who doesn't want to know or want to help. Shame on them.

Which dealership was this? I think that the chaps at Diamond are (or used to be) very switched on and enthusiastic about the marque.
Rob Bell

Is this availble on all K series engines or just the latest Z crop?
David Harasym

Paul - insurance wise, how are they going to know, is undetectable
Roy - warranty wise, its done by an official dealer using their own downloaded program so its covered.
rob
rob

RE Police mode

My local dealer Wicliffe have told me to get lost re the police mode alteration as after faxing the info to MG they were told that Police Cars are actually DETUNED rather than altered to give a different torque band.

They also told me that if i had it altered then it would show up if connected to diagnostic computers at the dealer and give loads of error codes that MG would,nt understand . Warranty void time they state ...

Anybody know of a dealer local to gloucester who is a bit more helpfull and also whether the bit about the error codes is correct or not..

On another point i have noticed in various threads that a number of engines on the ZS have actually expired . I was woundering whether MG have put a stop on this mod because they are worried about the ZR160 engine going bang.. Also mine was using a hell of alot of oil in the first 4000 miles








Paul jackson

there's a police driver here with me, is there a pic online we can look at?
Gareth

Pic of what?
A ZR with a laptop attached?
Dot

you must remember to take your hormone pills Dot. I meant a pic of the model the police are evaluating.
Gareth

Try reading the thread.
Dot

Why on earth should an alternative MG-approved state of tune throw up error messages? I can believe that you'd get a message displaying the data set used 'standard mode' or 'police mode' etc- but other error messages? Why???

Rob Bell

Just for Dd:
Look for the MG ZR 160:

http://www.mgcars.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=mgoc&a=&p=emg/emg080102.htm
Dot

"insurance wise, how are they going to know, is undetectable"

Rob - with a laptop? If it was a dealer supplied option would not the dealer record it against the database entry for that VIN? Oh, I forgot we are talking about Rover dealers. If you don't declare it your insurance is invalid.
Paul Hunt

A mate of mine at work told me his brother has just had his ZR160 "plodded up", apparently it's a new "chip" in the ems.
Anyway, he reckons it's f*ckin quick now, full power from about 2500 rpm to the redline!!
Che

If you want to see some pics of the MGs that the police are trying have a look at

http://64.119.166.242/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=158

MGFan

The ECM is not subject to any external physical attention, just activation of another map or series of maps that provide differnet characteristics.

KNowing the circumstances that would be behind the creation of the 'Police Mode' I have no doubt that it is a way to lower the actual torque band, which will be at the expense of top end power. Lower torque is a prerequisite for Police vehicles that have usually to carry extra weight in kit and also have the need for a good spread of torque from as low in the rev band as possible.

One further thing that is generated is one that is insisted by Police Fleet managers. This is one where any modification that takes an edge from performance and returns it in the form of potentially better economy AND better long term reliability, from reducing stress, is certain to be used.

In the case of the VVC enggine there is a real degree of flexibility to be gained by alternate mapping as the inlet cam is controlled between about 220 and 280 degrees duration. Keep the longer duration to the back and hold onto shorter duration and bingo a fatter torque band at lower rpm. The same degree of flexibility and results will certainly not be available on the solid cam engines.

If the mode is changed, and the same situation has applied to previous Rover engines, it is one that is usually applied silently (i.e. the customer has no knowledge of any fundamental change) when he has complained to his dealer that the car is not performing well. Then the official routine is to do a full series of tests on the car and eliminate any possibility of defect. If no defect has been found then this alternative mode can be engaged.

In the T16 turbo engines this mode was done and required the use of 98RON unleaded afterwards, which the customer was told. However the performance was enhanced. Other modifications to lesser effect can be done on some systems without need for fuel changes and so the owner has no knowledge.

On insurance I wonder if there is anything to declare even with knowledge. The owner goes to the dealer with a complaint which is rectified under the standard operating parameters of the vehicle manufacturer. Other owners go and ask for the same work because of prior knowledge of a potential effect. In what way has the vehicle now altered from a standard manufacturers specification? It is not an accessory and the car is still a standard spec car.

The argument could be made that if you removed all the trim from the car and lightened it to raise the power to weight ratio by 10%, is this a notifiable modification where absolutely no change to the mechanical spec has been made.

I suggest that if an official view was asked for by the ABI from MGR that the answer would be that alteration to the mapping provides altered torque delivery characteristics with no increased power from the homologated figures.

Rog

Roger Parker

Paul, the insurance man wouldn't have the software to hack into the cars ecu to see what mode its running in and it wouldn't show up as being in police mode and if they wanted a dyno report it would show less than 160bhp when factory figures quote the model as having 160bhp so it wouldn't be considered as a mod?

re detuning police cars, it's exactly the opposite they require especially with a hot/sports model, as these are used to catch boy racers in tuned cars.
reliability wise, the police do more miles than the average motorist so the car would have to be spot on as they couldn't afford to have their cars in the garage all the time.

on a testbook the ecu wouldn't show up any faults as the car is set up on this very system and would be running as to the program downloaded
rob

Having seen the amount of "Down time" that the Rovers we have had spent in the work shops. It would be a brave man (or woman) with deep pockets to have to mods made.
Praveen

Hi Guys 'n' Gals (not that I've spotted many Gals).

I'm about to take delivery of a new ZR+120 on Wednesday 20th Feb (hopefully).

Been reading this messageboard. Seems some very knowledgeable ZR drivers out there willing to pass their fixes and info on.

Got a couple of questions if I may, as a complete beginner to all this?

(1) Due to time constraints, I was forced to buy a ZR which my local dealer (SGL in Preston) had on site as couldn't wait for factory-built. The ZR I eventually chose (from the half dozen or so in stock) did not have side sill finishers and I kind of think they are cool. Is it poss to order these somewhere and fit DIY bearing in mind my CDT skills at school were laughable? SGL suggest that if they are not ordered with the factory built car their cost goes up dramatically and they get somebody in to fit them at their place thereby increasing cost too.

(2) Is this 'police' mode available on my ZR 120 and if so, would I benefit anything from having it done? Nigel - which dealer have you experience in Preston and did you have any luck?

Cheers Guys 'n' Gals
Findlay

Hi Findlay, the sideskirts are exactly the same as the ones available for the r25 in the rover accessories catalogue, another source is SW (stuart wilson) Autodesign based in manchester. These would cost about £250 - £300 painted+fitted.

The police mode is as far as im aware available for all Z saloons, low down torque (pulling power) is improved - less hesitant

rob
rob

Cheers Rob. When I take my cheque down tomorrow I'll have a word with dealer about 'police' mode and see what happens. Will report back with any news.
Findlay

Further to 'police mode' enquiry on my new ZR120...

I'm due to pick up the vehicle on Wednesday still and when I called into SGL Preston this lunchtime to hand over balance of payment, I enquired with the sales rep. She'd heard of the MGF having the facility but didn't think the Zeds did. I corrected her and she duly admitted to not being all that technical (worrying for a sales rep) and brought over another suited bloke from the sales floor but more back office than general sales (if that makes sense). He asked how I'd found out about 'police mode' and when I explained the various postings here (though not mentioning any web details to locate us) he said he wasn't sure if there testbook discs had the option fitted but promised to find out and, if available, configure my zed accordingly. I'll find out more tomorrow when I pick up the car.
Findlay

Police Mode

I have now tried 2 different dealers in the Gloucester Area .Both would not configure my ZR160 to police mode...Any ideas how i can get it done without voiding my warranty: i think us ZR owners need clarification from MG on this matter::

Does anyone know of a way to contact MG direct as i get the impression that i am not being given the full story from my local dealers


Paul Jackson

I have now picked up my ZR 120.

My salesman checked with the technicians at SGL Preston who advise the following.

Yes 'police mode' is an option on all Zeds and I am to make an appointment for next week when they can do the biz on mine for me. I gather they have never been asked to undertake such a task before and have therefore requested they be allowed to test-drive my Zed having made the change to ensure all is well before returning it to me.

I will therefore keep you posted on the outcome towards the back end of next week.

As for as warranty is concerned Paul, as rob has stated elsewhere, this is an official MGR setting for an official MGR motor car undertaken by an official MGR dealership using official MGR technicians. My salesman cannot see there being a warranty problem. Perhaps if you'd chip'd it and otherwise had the work done at your local cowboy mechanics, maybe warranty would be an issue but all the signs I am getting from SGL Preston is everything's cool.
Findlay

Hi Findlay, why couldn't the mechanic set up police mode when your car was PDI'd? the process is the same as configuring which has to be done on all new MG's before they go out.
is your dealer going to charge? if so it only takes 5mins so dont let them give you a bill for this - no parts are req either so check your paperwork

rob
rob

rob,

I guess the car had already been PDI'd when I enquired about 'police mode'. My enquiry was at lunchtime on Tuesday and I drove it out of dealership on Wednesday lunchtime.

I'm actually seeing whether I can get some free mats and a reduced price for the side sills from SGL Preston as my Zed has a scratch on the inside of the drivers door on the outside surface of the door pocket. It has clearly been caused by something sharp and not a foot/shoe etc. I was a little disappointed this wasn't spotted before they handed it over to me.

In addition, I was given just petrol vapours to get me to the local garage when I had anticipated a full tank though nothing was agreed before hand.

I did not part ex, paid cash in full (well bankers draft anyway) and although salesman quite helpful and car ready as promised despite me messing them around, was disappointed to find no mats or fuel as complimentary.

So awaiting there estimate for both at hugely discounted rates!
Findlay

My brand new Focus's always came with a full tank of petrol listed as part of the 'on the road price'. Complained about an administration fee and got a £60.00 set of mats free. Come on MGR stop being tight.
Tim Martin

Result!

Car going in on Fri 29th to have whole new door pocket put on (salesman "we like to make sure everything is perfect") plus I've managed to get some mats out of them. No idea what type/quality but time will tell. 'Police mode' also to be sorted same day as well.

Better than a poke in the eye I guess.
Findlay

Findlay - try for the MG mats, tailored to fit and with the clips they don't slip about.
shame there's no mudflaps available yet.
rob

>shame there's no mudflaps available yet

Roger P. said he would push to get mudflaps as an accessory thru MGOC... The ZS really does need them up front!!

kelv.
Kelvin

Findlay WROTE:

>>In addition, I was given just petrol vapours to get me to the local garage when I had anticipated a full tank though nothing was agreed before hand.<<

Tim WROTE:

>>My brand new Focus's always came with a full tank of petrol listed as part of the 'on the road price'. Complained about an administration fee and got a £60.00 set of mats free. Come on MGR stop being tight.<<

Last time I took delivery of a new MG it came with a full tank of fuel. Dealer explained that this was to test for possible tank or fuel line leaks as part of the PDI. OK. They charged top whack for the fuel - but, I did not complain having negotiated a near 20% discount on the car. I knew beforehand the "ex-factory" list price of the car charged to the dealer because I saw his ARG invoice. The overall 20% was higher than the usual around 17% dealer margin as the dealer badly needed to hit a sales total target by a certain time to qualify for extra margin. Dont think it's a question of MG-R being tight, more likely the dealer trying to get the last drop of profit out of any deal .....

With the reduced VAT on the total discounted price, the "overall on the road" price reduction was actually a little more than 20% which was nice. I did the deal at a time when sales had slowed so one more new sale or registration even with little/no profit could qualify the dealer for a wider factory margin on ALL the new sales so far during that specific period. That way dealers, customers and factory all win - kind of discount for quantity. I suspect similar schemes are still operated by manufacturers if some of the advertised new price and pre-reg deals are anything to go by.

BTW Tim Martin; I have a first cousin of the same name I've lost contact with who last I heard lived in Essex. He's a bit of a "car nut" too. He'd be in his 50s now - you're not him are you?
John McFeely

As detailed earler by ZR120+, now 10 days and 415 miles old, went back to the dealer (SGL Preston) to be tuned to Police Mode.

Was told everything went smoothly (well it would...just a computer downloading data isn't it?). As this was the first time SGL Preston had been asked about Police Mode they sought my permission to take it for test drive. The engineer reported that he did not detect any noticeable change in torque. Oh well, I'll be the judge of that though having said that, as I've not floored it or anything like, doubt I'll be able to judge it.

But it was done, free of charge, by my friendly MGR dealership.

ONE THING YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE SPOTTED, all you Police Moders out there. Apparently the engine immobiliser no longer arms passively when in Police Mode as the old Bill prefer to jump into their cars and drive off not worry about disarming immobilisers. Though having said that, it's only the act of turning the key in the ignition, provided the key-ring transmitter is close by at the time.

rob, I also got my free mats, official MG ones with clips and all so that's a result too.

On the minus side, the driver's door pocket which was scratched on pick-up from the dealer was not fixed as apparently this requires a whole new inside door panel which they didn't have in stock. So it's going back on March 25 to have this replaced. I'm also having the side sills done for £270 + VAT. Apparently they like to keep the car for two days and let them bond overnight.

Final point - courtesy car today was a ZS stepspeed. Thought interior dull, uninspiringand thought the CVT absolutely awful. Because I tend to drive heavy footed engine was revving heavily just about all time. Passers by kept looking at me wondering if my foot was stuck holding the clutch down!
Findlay

well i must admit to not noticing the immobiliser?
shame about the door pocket but it does happen every now and then with all cars - scratches,dents,etc before the customer collects, ive just left a main dealers after 12 years and could tell you some stories.
Are the side skirts being fitted by your dealer? if so there probably adding their cut to the cost - try sw autodesign in manchester(cant remember the number) their skirts are identical.
The skirts should be left for at least 24 hours after fitting to make sure they've bonded properly, make sure if you jet wash the car after not to aim at the bonded area.
If you go to larkspeed you can get a chrome gear lever surround for £32 which looks good (made by racing)it matches up with the internal door handles.
let us know what you think about the car.

rob
rob

Rob
Just a quick update. I have got the cylinder head "sorted". Hopefully there will be no more leaks. I have also got a fiar amount of rattles and squeaks sorted out,in particular the drivers seat which was really driving me mad every time I when round a corner. The garage grease the springs and the seat mounts. This is worth having done if your seat starts to get noisy. I have not got the car switched over in to police mode as the garage did not have the disc, however I may try once I am happy that the cylinder head is cured.

Findley can you remember a name at SGL preston who knows about Police Mode then the guys I know at Chorley can find which disc it is on.

Nigel

Nigel

Nigel...All my dealings with SGL Preston have been via salesman Mick Knapton who has been most helpful throughout. When my Zed went in the other day to have Police Mode sorted whilst it wasn't he that knew a great deal about it, he knew who to ask at SGL Preston. He did tell me this bloke's name but I've forgotten.
Findlay

Nigel, do you know how the rattles were cured? worth trying the same on mine

rob
rob

Rob

If your passinger or driver seat is creaks when going round corners get the garage to grease (thick white grease) the mechcanism and the springs. My seat is perfect now, in addition they fiddled with some wiring under the dash near the drivers door which cured a noise I use to get from that region when the car heated up. I have also got the CD autochanger wired in and have constructed my own brackets since the garage has still not managed to get any yet, even with the part numbers supplied ! The cylinder head gasket has been fixed, however the oil has been over filled. MG claim I should be ok sinces the critical level is 15 mm higher up the dip stick than the max mark. Mine is 8mm at the moment. The garage have recommend that the engines run better at halfway.

Nigel
Nigel

Cheers Nigel but my noises sre coming from the rear, tailgate i think, cant be bothered at the mo but might sort it myself in the summer by stripping the tailgate and all interior panels then refitting.....should be fun :-(

rob
rob

Earlier on, I informed you that my MGR dealer, SGL Preston, had told me that passive engine immobilisation on my ZR was deactivated in Police Mode. I can now advise this is bollocks as my immobiliser still arms passively, maybe with a longer delay who knows, but it definitely arms.
Findlay

Does anyone know whether or not this software update is available in the mgf?
floyd

>>Does anyone know whether or not this software update is available in the mgf? <<

The software that is being refered to here is almost certainly incompatible with the earlier MGF; new cars are OBD2 compliant, the MGF, built prior to 2001, is not.

Whether there are equivalent software tweeks for the earlier version of MEMS is an altogether different question- and one that I do not have the answer. Might be worth further investigation for VVC owners?
Rob Bell

This thread was discussed between 07/02/2002 and 12/03/2002

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