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MG MGA - Attitude Adjustment - body sills

In case you haven't heard yet, the MGA with an Attitude is getting a little "adjustment" by way of replacing the inner body sills. It was started as planned right on schedule November 23rd. Overall plan is to have it back on the road by Mid April. For some this may look a lot like a full restoration, but it is only intended to replace some inner sheet metal, R&R the body for a thorough repaint, and maybe clean the chassis while the body is off. The frame, floor and chassis are otherwise in excellent condition needing nothing, or whatever they need can wait until it's back on the road.

Things were a little slow for a couple weeks, but now the project is cooking right along. Substantial body disassembly has been done, and it's time to start breaking welds and fabricating new sheet metal. This is where I get into new novice territory, but this sort of work has been so thoroughly discussed that is doesn't scare me (much). I intend to take my typical MGA Guru approach and fabricate most of the required new sheet metal parts from flat stock to keep the out of pocket cost to a minimum. For those who may want to follow the progress there are already four pages of photos and notes starting here: http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/restore/rt601.htm

This is going to be jolly good fun (if I can just keep myself convinced and motivated). I will have available all of the common implements of destruction, air power, Sawzall, grinders, chisels, plus a plasma cutter. For repair and reassembly I have available all the common hand tools plus a portable sand blaster, stick welder, acetylene torch, and MIG welder. I haven't decided yet if I will want a portable spot welder, but I suspect it may save some time. I have lots of hand tools for fabricating simple sheet metal parts, but I will want to borrow a few minutes on a 5-foot bending brake for the outer sill box parts. In the end I hope my rocker panels can be corrected and the doors can be properly aligned (for the first time in 30 years). All moral support will be appreciated.
Barney Gaylord

Hey Barney. Having recently been thru what you're about to go thru, I offer my sympathy! Here for moral support at least, I'll try to stop some time. Do you prefer Guinness or Bass Ale?
George
G Goeppner

Hi Barney,

I am going through exactly what you are about to do. I have one side almost finished (15 months so far)and I plan to start on the other side over Christmas break. Keep the photos and commentary coming, they sure are helpful. Good luck!

Andres
Andres Losin

>available all the common hand tools plus a portable sand
>blaster, stick welder, acetylene torch, and MIG welder.
>I haven't decided yet if I will want a portable spot
>welder, but I suspect it may save some time.

I'm in the middle of a sill repair job, and while I'd love to do the work with a resistance spot welder (as original, I have found that in most places it just wouldn't be possible to access the off side of the panels to be joined, with the body still mounted on the frame. Eclectic uses one for a lot of their work, but they do it with the body mounted on their special jig, which allows for a lot more access than the chassis. So, I'm using my MIG welder for the sills and dogleg (the rear posts and underlying sheet metal on my car are bad), and will try to borrow or buy a resistance welder when it is time to install the rockers, since those are the welds that will show once the car is reassembled.
Del Rawlins

Barney said: ". . .doors can be properly aligned (for the first time in 30 years)." I am shocked, stunned and amazed! Barney's doors have been out of tune for 30 years? How can this be?
Kidding aside, Barney, your new effort is going to be an education to be documented and preserved for ages to come, for those driving our cars long after we are gone (which I do not plan to be soon.) You will save uncountable MGA enthusiasts uncountable hours. Cheers to you (if a California guy can say that), may your welds be strong and alignment true.
Steve
Steven B

Message for:

Keith Morris
Brisbane
Australia

You posted the message below. You also said that you would upload a photo that you received from Kilmartin. It did not appear. Can you upload it now?

<<Posted 23 October 2007 at 08:07:36 UK time.

I have now received the panels from Kilmartin and they look very good. The B pillar has the correct taper and has the captive nuts. I'll know more about the fit of the sills etc when I have them in place but I'm hopeful they will be better than others have had to struggle with.>>
Mick Anderson

Barney whilst some of your stuff is a tiny wheeny bit questionable :-) the one thing that isn't is your desire to use your car and enjoy it to the full.
Please keep it that way, there are far too many cars that have simply had thousands thrown at them with only one desire to make a perfect show car. Yours on the other hand has been a true enthusiasts experience, please keep it so, I am sure you will!!
Bob (robert) Midget Turbo

Barney,as for just finished mine,i whould advise of the spot welder.needed for flanges at top of sill were sill inner,sill outer,and inside frame section are one.i tried mig welding,chould not get flush and have a good bond.this is were the door opening moulding is held on at.dont get the china 110v(like i did)wont do the job.get the 220v(yes i got it from china)and finished the rest of the outer sills all around.worked a treat!chris
chris ??yearsin primer

Barney, I will be waiting for all your feedback on the sills restoration. I have a roadster obtained in boxes and I'm alittle aprehensive on fitting the sills and joining the front end section to the rear as this is /will be my first restoration. Sooo I need all the help I can find. I eagarly await your future threads. Thanks Barney....
c allen

Mick, the attached is the photo I thought I had uploaded previously!

Keith Morris

Considerable progress in the past week. This is beginning to look easy compared to some cars that haven't been touched in 50 years. The project could be going quicker, except the process of documentation takes more time than the work on the car. Documentation is now up to 8 web pages. See bottom of page here: http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/restore/restore.htm#sills

I just got a software update for my AutoCAD program, and I will be taking some time aside to do some formal drawings for the replacement sheet metal parts, while I am waiting for delivery of some flat stock. If I had new sheet metal in my hands I could be cutting and forming new parts today and welding tomorrow, but I'm not in that much of a rush. I think I lucked out with a local source for 18 gage sheet metal and a friend with a press brake to help bend the box panels.

To answer a few prior questions: George, -- Bass Ale is fine. I have never acquired a taste for Guinness.

Steven B, -- The doors were misaligned because rocker panels I bought 30 years ago were about 3/8-inch too tall at the outside shoulder, and I had them installed before I realized it. In my less experienced days I made the decision to leave it that way, and I have been kicking myself for it ever since. I WILL get it right this time, currently intending to buy new rocker panels from different 30 year old stock that will actually fit properly. More notes on that later.

Del and Chris, -- I believe I have found a way to make a spot welder much more useful, and I intend to use one extensively (not sure where to get one yet). I intend to fixture parts and assemble/spot weld the sill box and inner panels assembly on the work bench (without the pillars or the door flange or outer rocker panel). Then I will "offer up" the spot welded sill assembly to the body, align and tack it in place, spot weld the bottom door opening flange, plug weld the bottoms of the pillars with the MIG welder, and butt weld with a MIG welder along the top horizontal joints to the front and rear vertical body panels. The body will be off later to allow access to the back side of the main body horizontal joints for touch up, and final painting of everything underneath. I rather like the prior long term result of pop riveting the rocker panel (for future service), otherwise that too can be spot welded.

Mick and Keith, -- At this point I'm pretty sure I will be repairing the B-pillars in situ and will not need to buy new ones. I will likely be into some clean-up sand blasting over the week end. I'm amazed at how clean the A-pillars are inside after 50 years, and solid all the way to the bottom.
Barney Gaylord


I used a small propane torch last night to loosen a bolt and burned by hand! My wife took it away for fear of me burning down the house. Smart woman...

On that note....I wish you the best of luck.


Jeff Bennett

Barney and others,
Where does the designation A, B and F pillars come from (in the original parts books)? What exactly is the panel bit referred to as the "dog leg"? Why do they call the sill panel the rocker panel?
Regards
Mike
Mike Ellsmore

Mike,

Start at the front of the car and the first "pillar" (vertical strengthening section) is A, second B, etc. (A four door car has the C pillar behind the rear door) The F section is so called because it's the shape of the MGA sill section with both A and B pillars attached.

The "dog leg" is the front lower part of the rear wing that looks like a ... well like a canine rear quarter!

Why call a sill - rocker, boot - trunk, hood - soft top, bonnet - hood, etc, etc; you can look those up on the net!

We are a global nation divided by a common language.

Personally I believe in calling a spade a....

Hand operated garden maintenance impliment, primarily for the use of digging.

Merry Christmas,

Neil

A picture from the "other" car but nice and seasonal for us northern hemisphere guys!

Neil McGurk

Thanks Neil,
Merry Xmas to you and all the regulars.
Mike
Mike Ellsmore

I was also referring to the following part as a dog leg:


Del Rawlins

About 25 years ago when I purchased my MIG from Snap-On I stupidly sold my panel spotter. It was a two cable spot welder. One cable was the ground and the other had a copper electrode in a pistol grip with trigger.
All I did was hook up the ground and then with panels clamped in position I would progress from spot to spot. It even had a strange shaped electrode to install rain gutters.It was a timer controlled.
I wish I could find another.
Sandy
Sandy Sanders

This thread was discussed between 14/12/2007 and 23/12/2007

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