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MG MGA - Grab handle holes

The grab handles on my car when I bought it each had three holes for fixing them to the windscreen. The outer two were slotted but oddly the central hole was circular. I thought this odd because then no adjustment is possible and all three holes may as well be circular.

A year ago I saw a picture of the Scarborough Faire grab handles and all three holes were slotted so I thought this could be the original pattern and bought a pair. When I tried to fit them to the surround I found that the centre of the central slot didn't coincide with the central windscreen hole. Although the three screws could be fixed no adjustment was possible because of the 'poorly' positioned middle slot. I put this down to a badly dimensioned reproduction part and forgot about it.

Today I've seen an apparently original and new BMC grab handle on Ebay -

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130467929627.

This has two outer slotted holes only and no middle hole at all!

But there are clearly three holes in the surround not only on my car but on every other one I've seen.

So is it possible that at the factory the cars were assembled initially using the two outer slots and when all adjustments had been made a central hole was drilled in the handles to line up with the third surround hole. This would prevent any subsequent movement in the slots of the screen relative to the handles. Maybe this was important to avoid any damage to the glass?

Does anyone have any thoughts?...............Mike

m.j. moore

Mike, I think you're spot on, and the center hole was drilled after alignment at factory final assembly. This was too good to pass up, so I made a new web page.
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/windscrn/wt_106.htm
I have included a picture of the aftermarket grab handle on my car with the three slots. The center slot is way out of position exactly as you describe. Even though a replacement grab handle is relatively cheap, this is another good reason to save and re-chrome the original parts. Someone interested in concours originality should snap up that OEM part on eBay.


Barney Gaylord

Must admit it certainly makes sense, the ideas suggested by Mike would seem spot on. I am sure someone from the Abingdon crew would remember drilling these holes and hopefully this will be confirmed if it is indeed the case.

However I have one question?

Why do the after market ones have 3 slotted holes? (it would be easier to manufacture with only 2)
Bob Turbo Midget England

Surely, at the factory they would not have drilled into chromed parts and risked a high rejection rate when the chrome flaked off the surrounding area?

Steve
Steve Gyles

Don't forget that they are probably made in China, and every little hole added means more material for the next one!...probably a Confucius saying would cover it.
Gary Lock

Steve, -- Drilling through after plating is likely no problem in this case. The parts were originally cast bronze, so no rust and the plating is not likely to flake. Also the drilled hole is covered on both sides and not visible in assembly.

Some of you may recall for MGB body shells, on the final assembly line the factory drilled a couple of pilot holes through the painted hinges where bolted to the bonnet so they could R&R the bonnet and put it back to original position with no fuss.
Barney Gaylord

Well both of my grab handles have only two holes! The third hole in the frame is there and countersunk.
Lindsay Sampford

Thinking about it, if Barney's theory is correct, both of my grab handles must have been replaced when genuine replacement parts were still available. I had wondered why there was a countersunk hole in the frame and no corresponding hole in the grab handle. Are there any more like mine out there?

Lindsay Sampford

Some of us of course don't have a problem!

I think my grab handle (in store along with the windscreen) had 3 holes. 1500, Chassis 55600. I will confirm in about June 2011.

Steve

Steve Gyles

Hi Barney

Are you sure they were bronze. Mine have the two slotted and one round hole and are made from that horrible Mazak alloy which is really difficult to rechrome without showing pitting in it. In the US it was called Zamak; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamak

John Francis

Well, you might be right. I figured if the windscreen frame parts were cast brass the grab handles should be the same, but maybe not. If anyone has an original part with the drilled center hole, the material might be obvious by inspection of the drilled hole.
Barney Gaylord

I do know for certain that my handles were that same rubbish that John describes. My plater refused to replate them as they would likely blow apart during the process. I refitted them in a polished state only. Quite a few pitts in the material.

Steve
Steve Gyles

Steve

Derby Platers can do a good job on them and get rid of the pits. They did a great job on my demister vents.

John
John Francis

John

History now. As you can see above I do not use them on my sports screen. The side support brackets are the original Le Mans design, being more raked.

Steve
Steve Gyles

The earliest of this part were made in brass and sometime in 1956 changed to zinc (pot metal). The part number never changed. They had three holes and no slots. I would post a picture but they are presently at the The Chrome Shop being replated.
James Johanski

I have a early all original 1955 1500 mga .The grab handles are bronze
Marc van Zoest

Marc, Presumably your grab handles have three circular holes like those on JJ’s car? This stacks up with the part drawing in the BMC parts list which shows three circular holes.

So they started with circles and changed at least the outer ones to slots later in production but for what reason? Perhaps with the original circular holes they had problems lining up the screen to the handles. The only such problem I can think of is windscreen glass breakage. If the slots cured the problem and as the slots only allow for 5/32” adjustment either way then it can be inferred that great care is needed in assembling the completed screen. My guess is that originally they kept the two 3/8” fixing bolts at the bottom of each windscreen stanchion loose until the grab handles had been securely fixed to the windscreen sides and the body and then tightened them up ……………you can just about hear the sound of the glass cracking from 55 years ago!!

When they had the new improved slotted handles they probably tightened up the stanchion bolts first leaving the grab handle screw tightening until the end.

Which leaves the question why did they introduce a drilling stage in the assembly process for the third central hole? I agree with Steve in that this backward step must have been a pain to do on the line. It’s not easy to drill through chromium plating even though it’s less than a micron thick and they probably would have had to centre punch to break through the plating so the whole process would have been a nightmare. They must have had a very good reason to introduce this step and again the only one I can think of is glass breakage. With just two outer slots there is risk of subsequent movement if there is any force on the screen and when travelling at speed there is such a force from the air stream trying to push the screen backwards.

If all this did play out 55 years ago then any future restorers not only should take extreme care when reassembling the screen but also should make sure that there is no chance of movement of the screen frame relative to the grab handles.

The person who buys the Ebay two slotted handle will be wise to drill the third central hole at the end of his screen assembly..................Mike
m.j. moore

Just checked the 1500 and it has two slots and a central hole, very original. The 1600 has three slots and is an OZ built car. Not sure how to tell what they are made from.
DJ Lake

I wonder if they loosely attached the grab handles to the windscreen before offering the whole assembly up to the car? Then loosely attached the stanchion bolts and the grab handle anchor bolts. The whole assembly could then be tightened with the side screens in place to get the correct angles.

Steve
Steve Gyles

This thread was discussed between 22/12/2010 and 24/12/2010

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