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MG MGA - Sidescreen refurb

I'm replacing the RHS sidescreen windows with polycarbonate sheet. I have cut the slider from .118 sheet and the front fixed pane from .065 sheet. On my LHS screen, the rear of the fixed pane has a metal stiffener wrapped round the edge and welded to the frame. I want to stiffen the rear edge of the new pane and to that end I have cut out a piece of steel from the corner of a square section 16 ga tube, so it is 1/4" wide and has a 1/16" "hook" on the edge. I want to fix this to the pane and the frame. I can't see welding it to the frame due to heat damage, so I guess its glue. I tried gluing a test piece of the sheet to metal with epoxy, but it fails. Any suggestions for either joint?
I have no idea how the original mfg managed that weld.
Art Pearse

My frames came without the diagonal brace but you could see where the ends of the brace had been welded to the top and bottom of the frame. I made up a couple of braces from 1mm steel sheet which started just over an inch wide and around 15" long. I folded the sheet in half lengthways so they ended up 1/2" wide with a slot width wide enough to take the 1mm thick polycarbonate sheet I've bought plus two thicknesses of vinyl.
I welded these to the frames after cutting to length.

I remember thinking it's not going to be so easy to fit the windows in with the brace fixed but thought this was the only way they could have done it originally. I've yet to cover them and fit the 'glass'.........................Mike

m.j. moore

Nice Mike. So - how do you fit the pane after installing the brace? There is interference on all 4 sides!
Art Pearse

I have some original unmolested screens tucked away for restoration, maybe I can dig them out and have a look how the factory did it.
Neil McG

When I did my Weathershield frames I saw there were two ways of making the windows smaller than the opening. One was to prize apart the aluminium sides and the other was to curve the plastic. I found that there was very little give in the sides and so I resorted mainly to flexing the plastic; it wasn't easy.

With the steel frames and the diagonal brace in position there is virtually no scope for prizing the sides apart so that you'd have to rely entirely on flexing the perspex. The front pane plastic is so thin there shouldn't be a problem with this but the 3mm rear one is a lot harder to flex.

I wouldn't mind betting that the manufacturers had a jig or clamp that would curve the plastic prior to inserting in the frame.

Another way would be if the diagonal brace were folded after first welding and then after the plastic had been inserted. A folding machine would be required for this.

Finally perhaps the welding was left until the pane was inserted - it might just be possible to do this without causing heat damage.

Neil might be able to shed some light on all this on inspection of his old frames..........................Mike
m.j. moore

OK, I think I have figured out how its done.
The stiffener is welded to the bare frame. Then the frame is covered with the vinyl. Then the brackets are riveted on.
The front pane is flexed horizontally so it goes in between the top and bottom edges. Then it is slid forward as far as it can go. At this point, the rear edge is overlapping the stiffener. Because the U-channel is not yet in, there is room to flex the pane vertically and get it to enter the stiffener.
Then the U channel is inserted and finally the rear sliding pane which flexes easily to go in.
I must try my theory in practice before I get out the MIG.
Art Pearse

One for Mike Moore -
Mike, what did you use for the rubber fill piece at the front of the screen?
Also, I've made the reinforcing strip for the front pane out of 26ga steel, folded over with the right gap, so no gluing. I am a bit hesitant about welding it to the frame b/c its so thin, so I'm contemplating soldering it.
I will not cover this bit, but paint it black to match the vinyl.
The Singer is all tuned up for stitching the vinyl. I plan to glue it to the frame as I don't see how it can stay in place during assembly, I only have 2 hands.
Art Pearse

Art, I got most of the side screen bits from Todd Clarke except the window channel which came from Woolies and the plastic window material from a local supplier.

The solid sponge rubber seals glued along the front were about $6 a pair a couple of years ago. The section starts at 5/8" side to side width at the frame then it is parallel sided for about 5/16" plus a half round section at the front making a total front to back width of 7/16".

When I removed the old fabric from my frames it didn't seem to have been glued down. I think to avoid the need for glue the window channel will have to be a tight fit

I look forward to hearing how you get on with the stitching. I'm now looking for a thin navy vinyl the same colour as the hood with which to cover the frames. So far the samples I've got are too dark...............Mike
m.j. moore

Thanks Mike.
But shouldn't that be 5/16 + 5/16 radius = 5/8", not 7/16?
Yes, I know it was not glued originally, but I think it will be easier. I'm only going to glue on the outside faces.
The tricky bits as I see it now are the fabric joins at the corners. I think you have to get all 4 corners stitched on the machine before attaching it to the frame.

Art Pearse

I've had another look and the above dimensions are correct but the radiused front edge is just 1/8" deep. I agree the corner stitching will be a challenge - good luck!......................Mike
m.j. moore

OK. Well, I got the reinforcing strip soldered in place to the frame, polished off and painted. The front pane will slip in with 1/8" interference once I've milled 1/32 off the edge.
Art Pearse

Mike, since you have had 3 goes at this, I'll ask your opinion!
I think I can make pieces C and D in one piece of vinyl. Currently they are both 2 pieces, making 4.
What do you think?
I think I have to do the end to end seams first, making ABCD, then do the flap seams.
Art


Art Pearse

Art, That sounds promising. If C & D were made out of one piece then there wouldn't be six thicknesses of vinyl to sew through at the join area. It would make the stitching around the curve much neater. However, why didn't they do that at the hood factory? Doing one pair of frames this way would use up quite a bit more material but on a production scale the extra used should be much less.

So you would cut out two mirror image CD pieces, put them together with the back sides facing outwards and sew them together along the edge about 1/8" in. Then you would turn this sewn pair inside out and sew another row 1/8" from the folded edge followed by a third row about a 1/4" in from the second row creating the narrow flap. I can't see anything wrong with this but I'm still puzzled why the factory didn't do it like this. You may find out when you try it!
I've just had another look at my attempt to sew the four pieces together at the C/D join and the words 'dog's breakfast' come to mind!!

As well as this thoughts about how to accomplish the AB mitre stitching (neatly) still give me nightmares..................Mike

m.j. moore

Mike, I have come to the conclusion that the corner seams need to be hand sewn. When sewing inside-out in a corner, there is no room for the foot on my old Singer.
I just had a reasonable success on a test piece.
Obviously the originals were machined but they must have had a special sewing foot.
Art Pearse

Art, Do you think that the bottom corners were sewn up before the flap was completely stitched? It's just that on my original covering the stitch row an inch or so from the bottom edge is in two parts, a long part from the rear to within 4" or 5" from the front and the second part from the front about 6" long. They could, of course, have run out of thread or perhaps the front part was left until after the corner was stitched. It might have been easier with the material being more open.

It could be that the exact stitching order of the complete cover is important I had sewn up both halves of C & D and the bottom piece and was planning to sew the corners last but maybe it was not done this way.

To do hand stitching you must have a very good thimble!.................Mike
m.j. moore

Not sure. I'm only hand stiching the front top corner seam, not the whole lot! Maybe 30 stitches total.
I made the front rubber out of 2 layers of 3/8 thick black rubber weatherstripping, with self-stick. Shaped the profile with careful use of my belt sander! Worked a treat. The old covering at this location fits over it fine so I guess I got the depth right.
Art Pearse

Mike, I think you hit the nail on the head! I too have evidence that the flap seam (1-1/4" from bottom edge) at the front, was open for about 6" back and closed up after doing the inside-out nose seam. Just had to do that one myself and I had to unpick it that far to do the inside seam.
Art Pearse

Art, When stitching the corner mitres I'm wondering whether you traced out the position of the stitches from the old coverings or whether you took the exact shape of the new covers from the old. I've been a bit reluctant to dismantle my old covers because they are in such a fragile state..................Mike
m.j. moore

Same here Mike. I'm sort of using a combination of basic measurements from the frame and from the old fabric, examination of the old seams and modifying it to what is achievable with my hands and machine!
I'm not doing too bad now after several test pieces and failures.
I'll post some pics in a while.
Art Pearse

Saw this on ebay - NO SEAM! Is it possible to cut it as one piece?

Art Pearse

This thread was discussed between 18/04/2014 and 07/05/2014

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