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MG MGA - Source for Ice Blue Top?
| Does anyone know a source for the ice blue convertible top (hood) or a colour that would be close in Light blue. I presently have a white top and may experiment with dying it a Light blue. Has anyone done this... and if so ... how did it work out? |
| CR Tyrell |
| CRT: Moss said some time ago they would try to arrange production if they could obtain a sample of unweathered Ice Blue; have you checked the current situation with them? I have only one new IB top and tonneau left now; the top will go on my 1600 but the tonneau will have to give up its life for the sake of the sidescreens. Ice Blue surely looks very good on an Iris Blue car; however it is a difficult colour to replicate by dying. If you were to try this on a white top, it might be made to work by applying several translucent coats in succession until the results looked right. Whichever route you decide to take, good luck! Alex |
| Alexander_R |
| Check with Little British Car Co. in Michigan. He has many in stock and some with zip out windows. Jeff Becker |
| JEFF BECKER |
| there was a thread a long time ago, i think it was on here, where someone had discovered a firm in the UK who still had the original material in blue sorry I have no more detail |
| nnpfcwrq |
| My car is Glacier Blue and the Heritage certificate specifies Light Blue for the Hood. I have got the car repainted to a direct match to the original paint that was on the car. I have never even seen a light blue hood, so i really don't know what colour I am looking for. I am doing the seat covers in Black with light blue piping, even though the light blue is not the right colour. Will look good . Alex, could you send a photo sometime of the Ice Blue hood colour, even that would help. |
| CR Tyrell |
| A navy hood (dark blue) goes well with a light blue car. |
| Gary Lock |
| CRT: Don't think a photo will really cut it; monitors vary so much. If you would care to let me have a suitable postal address, I'll mail you a small sample. It will be small - about a square inch - but it should give you a fair idea of what Ice Blue looks like in your sort of light. You might or might not like it. If this is convenient, let me know and I'll email you. Gary: I agree dark blue Stayfast tops look good; not so sure about dark coloured Everflex though. Besides, many years with double duck tops on my '39 TA taught me to be very wary of large birds and saponaceous trees - and I just can't be bothered with that anymore! Cheers Alex |
| Alexander_R |
| Hi can anyone tell me why name and email seem to have become corrupted ? cheers Gordon |
| nnpfcwrq |
| Gordon: Have you not logged in for a while? This board was revamped a couple of months ago; at which point my own details reverted to an incorrect earlier version, which I was unable to change without taking another avatar. What happens when you try to edit? Alex |
| Alexander_R |
| Alex. That sample offer is very kind of you, and just the ticket. Please send me an e-mail and we will go from there. If at all possible I would like to get the car to as close to how it left the factory. In the mean time if any one knows a source for the Ice blue top , I would be grateful. Thanks. |
| CR Tyrell |
| Hi Alex haven't logged on for many moons so i guess that is the reason, editing seems to be ok |
| nnpfcwrq |
| I believe there were two pale blue Everflex colours, 'Ice Blue' and 'Light Blue'. It's possible that the 'Ice Blue' shade was unstable in sunlight and took on a greenish hue and maybe they discontinued it and introduced a more stable 'Light Blue' I have some Light Blue Everflex and the colour is a nigh on perfect match for the original Iris Blue paint which I found on my car. The picture shows how close a match it is.....................Mike 
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| m.j. moore |
| Gordon There was a server crash a few weeks ago, and some names and emails were corrupted (including mine). You just have to go into your profile settings and you can reenter them correctly |
| Dominic Clancy |
| Mike, The light blue looks good. Problem is that here it seems it is not available. I checked both the Moss US and UK sites. The closest i got is to have a top made from pinpoint vinyl at almost double the price of the most expensive top. I would order from the UK if they are plentiful there, but so far have not found one. The internet is a wonderful thing but it is still limited. And of course I would love to get the corresponding Light blue Tonneau as well. |
| CR Tyrell |
| Bob West or MotoBuild both have trim shops and would make you one in the colour required for a sensible price if they can find the material |
| Dominic Clancy |
| Mike: Interesting, but . . . apparently there were two hoodings used on these cars, ICI Vynide (from the start of production) and then with the introduction of the 1600, Wardle's Everflex. Clausager states that the colour's name was Ice Blue until the introduction of the late style canopy and accompanying modified sidescreens. Then the name changed to Blue; at which point a confusion arises. Some believe that this meant Dark Blue, and this would seem to be supported by the appearance of the term Light Blue on later Heritage Certificates, while others think Ice Blue continued. All I am certain of is that my car was produced with the later hood frame, canopy and matching sidescreens in Ice Blue. That is why I've been at such pains for the past fifty years to keep it so. But the only NOS canopies I've been able to find are of the earlier type, and to make those work with the later screens means modifying the valances; the source of the material being NOS Ice Blue tonneaux. At the moment there's only one of those left, which won't give enough material to recover the screens AND modify the hood valances. So . . . You are right about the weathering of the hoodings. Scrubbing with "Brasso" got rid of most of the greenish cast of the originally-fitted Everflex top; something not necessary with its replacements, as in due course the country changed from using anthracite coal and high-sulphur oil to cleaner fuels. Incidentally the Heritage Certificate for my Tourer dates back to the days when it cost just two pounds; it gives the hood colour as "Blue". Cheers Alex |
| Alexander_R |
| Alex; If I can get a "swatch" for colour from you I could get a dye formulated to match. The only thing about dying the current white top would be where the clear windows are fused to the vinyl of the top. It may not accept the dye the same as the white. The body of the car is a 1600 body without the "B" prefix on the body #, so a 1600 top would fit fine and it came with the fabric covered sliding glass side windows, that are black and would have to be dyed as well. Still working on how I would have to do that. |
| CR Tyrell |
| CRT: On original Ice Blue hoods the welded seams show pale grey in colour; not really noticeable against the blue. Not sure how you could simulate this. The black sidescreens will certainly be a challenge. Would you not need a very dense basecoat to "smother" the black - something like aluminium paint? Ah, the things we do for the sake of our cars! Cheers Alex |
| Alexander_R |
| That was the plan to vinyl paint the covering white as the present top then dye with the same dye as the top. A lot of things could go wrong dealing with solvents and adhesion promoters. A bit of experimentation will be done first. |
| CR Tyrell |
| Alex, Did you have your new ice blue hood made up for you and if so can you remember how much material you used? I have a quantity of light blue everflex which I was hoping to have made up into a hood and tonneau with enough left over for the side screen frames. A medium length tonneau will take a bare minimum of 1 metre (54" width) and SS frames require a half metre. I was hoping to be able to have a hood made up with 2 metres as this is all I would have left but I don't think this will be enough. CR Before you get your seats made up check on the colour of the piping that will be used. I asked various trimmers for a sample length of their 'light blue' piping and I was surprised at the variation; one was charcoal grey! So I hunted around for a better match of piping material and the trimmers I eventually went with had no problem in using this. I used the same stuff throughout the car (see pic.) and had enough left over to make a Syd Enever type tonneau bag.........................................Mike 
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| m.j. moore |
| Mike, I already have the seat covers and they look very similar to yours. The "charcoal grey" colour piping is actually an original colour piping for the glacier blue cars with the black interior. I have a friend with a Glacier blue car and it still has the original piping around the cockpit pieces, and it looks like a medium grey to dark grey in the light. I chose the light blue piping and as yet I have not compared it to the car. I am still finishing up the rolling chassis. Mike your car looks good.... |
| CR Tyrell |
| Mike: Your car looks marvellous! Can I ask what type of paint you used, who manufactured it and who was your supplier? And where did you get the silver wing beading? I have always used NOS replacement hoods and tonneaux for my car, bought mainly as a job lot from a NOS supplier many moons ago. They have been well-fitting and leak-free. If I had new material to play with, I would make up the hood, sidescreens and tonneau in that order. And yes a bag for the tonneau cover would be very nice! By the way, does your car use the late-pattern sidescreens, used from Chassis No. 97104 onwards? Cheers Alex |
| Alexander_R |
| Hi Dominic that seems to have done the job thanks Gordon |
| Gordon Pugh |
| Alex, I chose cellulose because I wanted to paint it myself and live to tell the tale! I followed the paint schedule given in the Workshop Manual (S.20)as closely as I could using:- 1. Bernardo Ecenarro F714 shop primer onto both steel and aluminium 2. Churchill high-build primer 3. Lechler MAC5 cellulose finish The Lechler iris blue finish was quite a bit deeper blue than the areas of original paint on the car so I made it paler by mixing 2 parts blue to one part white. This made the colour spot on with the original iris blue. I don't think my local supplier is still an agent for Lechler but I know the paint is available elsewhere. As for the wing piping I got that from Simon Robinson but it's nothing special. I think if I wanted more I would try Bob West next time. I believe his piping has a larger tail width. I bought my car (1600 Mk.1) without fabric covered screens but it had a pair of Weathershield aluminium ones. I got hold of a used pair of original FC screens a couple of years ago but have so far failed at my first attempt to cover them; it's the only job I have remaining. The only professional trimmer I have found so far who can cover these frames is Bob West but I've seen an example of their work and I wasn't too impressed. I didn't realize there were two types of FC sidescreen, do you know the differences? As a stopgap I've cleaned up the Weathershields and painted them navy blue to match my hood and they don't look too bad (see pic.)......................................Mike 
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| m.j. moore |
| Mike: Ta muchly - that really is very helpful. Hadn't heard of Lechler, but I shall follow that up especially as I've recently been thinking of going back to cellulose. Tekaloid coach enamel has worked well for me in previous resprays but that product has been re-formulated and I no longer like it quite so much. Forgot to ask, did you use a conventional gun or HVLP? Surprised to hear about the wing beading; it looks so good on your car I was sure it was the proper stuff. I have sent back more than one purchase of this item for being too thick, too short or not at all silvery; or even all three. I live in hope! Sidescreens. Yes there are two distinct types of FC screens on 1600s and each needs to be used with its own matching canopy. Change point for IB cars is Chassis No.97104. Use the late-style screens with the earlier hood and the car will be draughty; other way around and water leaks in at the rear of the sidescreen. Main difference to the eye is the absence of the rear flap, now trimmed down to an angled gutter. However there are now two shaped Vybak stiffeners, one at each end of the flap that rests against the doortop; and this flap itself is cut at the rear at a forward angle. (Look at the lower left illustration on Page 44 in Clausager to see what happens when the flap is cut incorrectly). On the underside of the sidescreen frame, right at the front, there is a lengthways clenching stitch one and a quarter inches long. This draws the flap inwards slightly against the tension of the internal stiffener; this seems to be what prevents the slipstream pulling the flap outwards. Damn clever those Abingdon chaps, what? I had my sidescreens copied on new frames rather than recovered, so the originals are with my car still. The trimmer doing the job remarked that the clenching stitch would be the most difficult part for the amateur - "because you only get one chance" - in other words there isn't enough material in the "gather" to be stitched twice. Frightening! On my original sidescreens, the top channel cover is formed from two stitched pieces joined together in an overlapped seam just at the point on the rear of the frame where the previous long weather flap began. This is not especially neat, and it may well be a modification of earlier style screens which were in stock. (I worked for BMC for six years, and got to know their little ways!). I notice some of the repro screens have the top channel covered without that overlapped seam; it does look better. I hope you have another go at your sidescreens; given the poor fit of some of the repros - and their cost - surely some persistent fellow could do at least as good a job? Thanks again for the paint details - I may get back to you with some more questions on this. Cheers Alex |
| Alexander_R |
| Alex, The gun I used was a Devilbiss JGA558 suction type and I was very pleased with it. On the SS frame covers I dismantled I noticed the stiffening pieces at each side of the bottom stretch. I assumed the makers had used the same material for these as for the front window but I couldn't see why they hadn't used a piece that extended the full length of the flap. I hadn't noticed the clenching stitch you mentioned but I've now seen it on going back to the covers. The frames I bought seem to be the later style with the 1/4" 'flap' along both the top and rear sides but I'm not sure of the design of the hood which I had made. I don't think hood manufacturers are aware of the difference between early and late 1600 designs. When I ordered my hood I certainly wasn't asked for the car chassis number. I've looked up a picture of original frames for a very early 1600 and it looks like the rear flap starts at the top with the same width (1/4") as the top flap but gradually increases in width until at the bottom rear it seems to be 1" or so in width The frame material patterns sold by Todd Clarke appear to be for the later frames but you can't be 100% certain because he doesn't give stitch positions; he makes no mention of the two different styles. I suspect not many people are aware of the differences so I guess there are lots of leaky 1600 frames out there.................................Mike |
| m.j. moore |
| Mike: Very interesting. Would it not be the case that if there was a stiffener all the way along inside the lower weatherflap the flap would not be able to conform to the shape of the door top? How much information have you been able to glean from your original-style s/screens? Do you still have the Vybak stiffeners? I think they would be worth keeping; yours weren’t stitched in were they? On mine (meaning those which are original to my car, not the copies made later) the two rows of stitching on the bottom weatherflap, while parallel to each other all the way along, curve down towards each end of the screen. So the distance from the top row of stitching to the top edge of the lower frame channel (where the covering is folded over into the channel itself) is greater at each end of the frame. This seems to be the method Coventry Hood & Sidescreen used to give the covering its conforming shape. Examining the original items, it seems to me that the large rivet at the rear, whatever other purpose it may have, secures the cover in the correct location; which is to say, the drooping seam-line at the rear is held at about one-quarter of an inch below the bottom edge of the frame at that point. And at the front end, performing the same function, we have that awkwardly-placed stitch which you will have noticed, catches only the inner laminate of the lower weatherflap and is located ABOVE the long line of stitching. Recovering, providing the order of stitching-up the pieces is right, seems to me straightforward enough (remember I have only ever watched this being done by a professional) – until one gets to the front. There is quite a lot happening there; getting the clenching stitch in the right position, placing the stiffener, slipping the rubber moulding up into place and then (using one’s third hand) stitching the front cover to the bottom weatherflap. Would you like to be the one to try this first!! Cheers Alex |
| Alexander_R |
| Alex, I found several difficult areas when trying to recover my frames:- 1. Sewing together the top edge two pieces of material and the rear edge two pieces. ( The front and bottom sides, of course, are each covered with a single piece. ) I found that sewing two pieces of the vinyl together was tricky because one of the pieces tended to move through the machine at a different rate than the other and this caused puckering of the sewn up piece. I managed to reduce but not eliminate the puckering by fitting a roller foot to the machine but I had the feeling that a walking foot would have eliminated the puckering altogether. 2. Then there is the problem of sewing several thick layers together. Where the top and rear double pieces are sewn together at the frame curve there are as many as six layers of material in places! This was hard going and the end result was far from neat with additional puckering. At the time I had the feeling that the material I was using, which was the same as the Everflex hood material, was too thick. Since I abandoned the job six months ago I have been thinking that perhaps the material used originally by Coventry Hood was not Everflex but a thinner Vynide. The Everflex hood material I was using was around 0.75mm thick, this is also the thickness of the Light Blue Everflex I have. But I have some original light blue cockpit piping exactly the same colour and texture to the Light Blue Everflex but the Vynide covering is much thinner at 0.45mm. I’m absolutely certain that making up frame covers using this thinner material would be much, much easier. Unfortunately anyone searching for an elusive light blue hood would also have to look for a supply of thin light blue Vynide to match which might be even more time consuming. 3. Another, and perhaps the most difficult, job is the sewing together of the pieces at the bottom front and rear and front top corners with the required mitres. The position and angles of these short sewing stretches need to be very precise and what makes the job even worse is that the sewing has to be done from the wrong side and the stretches are not flat but concave! The old covers I removed from my s/h frames were a bit moth-eaten especially at the corners and so I can’t get decent stitching patterns from them. I still have the Vyback stiffening pieces; one of the front ones is ten inches long, 1.5 inches wide, 35thou thick and it was stitched inside the cover 5/16” from the top edge. Isn’t the ‘rivet’ you mentioned on the bottom rear outside face the channel water drainage point? The hole was covered with an eyelet after fitting the covers. I have the eyelets but I never had occasion to use them because I didn’t get that far!! I think your point about the order of sewing pieces togther being important is a very good one and I often wondered whether my sewing order was correct. When you watched your covers being made up can you remember the precise order of sewing? What I would give for a video of your man doing that job……………………………………….Mike |
| m.j. moore |
| Mike: More and more interesting. The original Everflex hoods came complete with a separate cover for the front frame rail that although in outward appearance identical was actually thinner than the Everflex canopy. It had a backing of fine woven canvas, without the brushed cotton lining of the hoods. This is the type of material that was used to cover the sidescreens You are trying to do too much through stitching. Think of the rain guttering along the top of the frame as two tubes placed back to back. At the point where the top cover overlaps the end cover stitch only through to the back of the front tube; from the rear, only through to the back of the rear tube. This is simplified, but it will have to do for now. And of course the actual overlaps of the front and back “tubes” are offset on the frame. At the most tightly-curved section of the guttering at the rear, there are the two visible rows of stitching but also another internal invisible row which I assume is to help stabilise that area when doing the final stitching. I think that if the s/screens are to fit properly on the car, then the bottom weatherflap needs to conform to the shape of the crown line through the front wing and door – which is a curve. I can see no other purpose for the clenching stitch at the front of the frame and the rivet at the rear, than to keep the cover in an alignment which makes this possible. I'm back in Scotland for a few days, which will at least give me a chance to look at my original frames in detail and post accordingly. Cheers Alex |
| Alexander_R |
| Colin, I have an old top that is light blue in colour. I do not know if it is light blue, ice blue or some other name. It is dirty and faded, however where it was folded over to attach to the front is nice and bright. I just now removed it to be sure that there was something you could reference. I would be glad to drop it off one of these mornings for you after I take the grandkids to school. It was taken from a black 1957. I do not know if it was original to the car but I do know that nothing has been changed on the car since 1966. Don |
| D Hanna |
| Don, We will be in touch. |
| CR Tyrell |
| Getting there with the Ice Blue Hood. Don provided me with a "distressed" hood that is no longer serviceable. I cleaned it up as best as I could and was able to get swatches of unmolested colour from it. Their was a few places on the hood where sunlight never got to it and I was able to have some pristine material. I have been able to get some vinyl paint (dye) mixed up to a colour match to the swatch. Now i am cleaning the white top in preparation of having the colour changed. I will post how I made out with this experiment. By the way...... the Ice blue hood colour looks absolutely fabulous with the Glacier Blue paint. Unfortunately i can't take a picture as the Glacier Blue does not reproduce with the digital cameras. (looks like Iris blue) |
| CR Tyrell |
| Well the experiment continues. I now have my old white hood sprayed the "Ice Blue" colour and it is on the car. I have not folded the top yet as I am going to let the top "set" for a week or so just to make sure the paint adheres properly. So far, so good. I have a new top in the wings awaiting the results of this test. Alex, you showed concern over the welded seams of the top not being a lighter colour , due to the weld of the clear material. Well, I got a big surprise when I opened the new top. The Clear windows are not clear, but a blue tint. The welded areas are already a light blue in colour. If the colour sticks and performs like I think it will, it will be perfect. 
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| C.R. Tyrell |
This thread was discussed between 25/02/2014 and 11/06/2014
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