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MG MGA Windscreen washer pump hole BBS discussion at MG-Cars.info
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MG MGA - Windscreen washer pump hole
| Hello If somebody has original (factory drilled) windscreen washer pump hole could you tell me exact position of the hole (sizes X and Y according to my picture) Thank you Nick 
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| Nikolai Skliadnev |
| I guess there will be many sets of measurements if the hole was drilled by dealerships and previous owners as well as the factory and I expect not many owners will know who drilled the hole. But I'll start the ball rolling with mine:- X = 2.125" 53mm Y = 0.75" 18mm Mine is vertically below the w/wiper hole.........................................Mike |
| m.j. moore |
| Since it was a dealer or owner installed option, you can drill the hole wherever it looks good or feels good. It wouldn't do any good for me to give you the position of mine, because I know that I'm the one who drilled the hole without knowing where it should go. But no one has ever claimed it to be in the wrong location. |
| Barney Gaylord |
Your phot looks xactly like mine. It is vertically directly below the wiper switch and "about" in-line horizontally with the lower edge of the cutout for the radio. (not the debossed edge but the actual cutout.
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| Chuck Schaefer |
| Thank you for the replies. And I still hope somebody has windscreen washer pump confirmed by Heritage Certificate as factory option. Thanks again. Nick |
| Nikolai Skliadnev |
| So next question to do with windscreen washers option. Where does the tube front the bottle on a RHD car feed through the cockpit? With the MGB, the tube goes straight downwards parrellel with the bottle but this does not seem to be the case for mga. I have a document on firewall holes but the windscreen washer tube is not on this. Thanks Mark |
| Mark Hester |
| From my memory of the practices in the UK at the time, minor accessories such as screenwashers were fitted at the dealership. Certainly the panel was not manufactured with a hole for the screenwasher. However, the original workshop manual has a few pictures showing screenwashers - 'General Information' page 3 and 5, and a poor quality photo on page S5. David |
| D Brown |
| Nikolai do you still need this measurement? Mine was installed at the factory per the Heritage Certificate |
| gary starr |
| Gary, Yes, I still need the measurements. |
| Nikolai Skliadnev |
| Gary: Do you have a 1500 or a 1600? Alex |
| A W Risk |
| I will get them tommorow,it is a very early 1600 built in June of 59 |
| gary starr |
| Thank you Gary that's helpful; it confirms my memory of how things were done at the time. Alex |
| A W Risk |
| Gary, Probably it’s easier to measure from the center of the wiper switch to the center of the windscreen washer pump knob (size Z) instead of measuring size Y. Thanks, Nick 
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| Nikolai Skliadnev |
| Nick I measured this before I came in and saw your post. It is in storage but if these measurements don't work for you let me know and I will remeasure. From the bottom of the chrome bezel of the wiper switch it is 84mm to the center of the pump shaft. It is 43mm from the right side of the chrome bezel of the choke pull to the center of the pump shaft 
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| gary starr |
| Really Gary? Your pump is factory installed? I thought that the factory always used the recessed cup mounting. That double-cup is in the parts list that I have but is only on about 50% of the MGA's that I have seen. Not trying to say it isn't so. Just saying I guess I learned something today. In any case, visually, the location looks just like what Nikolai and I have shown. So I guess it is 3 for 3. |
| Chuck Schaefer |
Don't know what you mean Chuck,here is a different picture,it does have a cup,also included is the copy of the heritage certificate.
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| gary starr |
here is the certificate
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| gary starr |
| Sorry Gary, I didn't see your cup. I thought it swas missing. Your first photo had the cup hidden by the knob. Your install is what I have always thought was "correct". I have seen other pumps mounted directly to the dash without the cup. BTW, 5 bucks for a Heritage cert? WOW times have changed since 1983. Merry / Happy ! |
| Chuck Schaefer |
| I only paid 500 for the car Chuck ;) |
| gary starr |
| Well Gary, it would seem that you may have overpaid. You paid 500 more for your coupe than I did for my roadster circa ~1979. Yours was probably more complete than mine. Those were the days! |
| Chuck Schaefer |
| Gary, Thank you for the measurements. But could I ask you to remeasure the distance from the center of the wiper switch to the center of the pump knob (shaft). If it just 84 mm from the bottom of the bezel of the wiper switch to the center of the pump shaft as you told me. In this case center of the pump shaft is in-line horizontally with the center of the choke pull shaft but according to your photo the pump knob is located below. May be you made a mistake converting from inches to mm? Thanks again, Nick |
| Nikolai Skliadnev |
| Will do Nick,don't know what happened was using a metric ruler but was having trouble holding the light and measuring at the same time while not wanting my damp feet in the car! Chuck we should have bought TC's or Deluxe's! |
| gary starr |
| Ok Nick here we go again. Please pardon my metric measurements, center of wiper switch down to center of pump is 97mm. From center of choke pull to center of pump is 56mm. Let me know if that makes more sense. |
| gary starr |
| Gary, Thank you for the new measurements. I think they are correct. They are very helpful and I think not just for me. I’m going to send this information to Barney for his web site, the information is useful for enthusiasts. Nick |
| Nikolai Skliadnev |
| "I thought that the factory always used the recessed cup mounting." Interestingly the early drivers handbook shows the washer push surface mounted sticking out of the dash. |
| Neil McG |
| Neil, I have two different driver’s handbooks with the same picture as you said. And the question is whether it was wrong picture that happened sometimes with factory workshop manual etc. or the early cars really had washer pump without recessed cup and picture in driver’s handbook was made that time. Nick |
| Nikolai Skliadnev |
| Nick Just out of idle curiosity where in Russia are you? Are there many other MGAs that you know of in the country? Steve |
| Steve Gyles |
| Steve, I'm from Moscow. When I bought it 4 years ago there were 3 or 4 MGAs in Russia (one was in classic car museum). But now I hear about 7 – 8 cars. Nick |
| Nikolai Skliadnev |
| Nick, How about a picture of your MGA with the Kremlin as a backdrop? ....................Mike |
| m.j. moore |
| Mike, There are some photos, but sorry without Kremlin. Nick 
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| Nikolai Skliadnev |
| More pic. Nick 
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| Nikolai Skliadnev |
| Beautiful car Nick, in what has to be the nicest colour scheme. I wish the factory had carried that colour over into the 1600 range instead of the iris blue and I would have chosen it instead............Mike |
| m.j. moore |
| Nick Looks a nice car with good gapping. Is it an early car with those side screens? Steve |
| Steve Gyles |
| Steve, My car is MGA1500, October 1958 and according to Clausager had flip-up side curtains. Nick |
| Nikolai Skliadnev |
| All 1500's originally had the flip=up side curtains. Hard to believe, since most people threw them out by the late 60's. I had three MGA 1500 in 1968-1969, all having replacement sliding side curtains at that time. First time I recall seeing flip-up side curtains was on one car out of over 100 MGA at the NAMGAR GT-13 in Marietta, Ohio, in 1988. The only good reason to retain or restore the flip-up beasts is for originality for concours show. But they are very nice to look at if you appreciate nostalgia. |
| Barney Gaylord |
| After a few hours of researching the Service Parts Lists, here is my best information on the recessed cups for the washer pump. MGA 1500 and Twin Cams did not have the recessed metal cups, and used a knurled nut on front of dash panel. There is only one part number for the washer kit for these cars, although the spray jets changed a couple of times, and the pump (control assembly) changed once at (c)45186 Dec 57. The recessed cups were introduced at beginning 1600 production (new kit number), using a hex nut inside. Part number for the tubing also change for the 1600 model (possibly different bore size). Larger neck and cap on the reservoir bottle was introduced in mid 1600 production at (c)80390 (another new kit number). All that said, my August 1957 production 1500 has the small neck bottle (as expected), but it also has the recessed metal cups for the pump. This looks suspiciously like an aftermarket installation of parts procured during early 1600 production. I also note that there was never any "T" fitting specified, which implies that all original MGA washer pumps had three hose barbs, one inlet and two outlets. If I'm right, then the two-barb pumps would not be factory issue, but could still be period correct as aftermarket parts. |
| Barney Gaylord |
| I am restoring a 57 MGA Coupe and my Heritage certificate indicates that the windscreen washer was factory installed. My dash is currently out of the car but I will take measurements and send them to you tomorrow. The hole is not recessed. I think it's that way since the windscreen washers were optional regardless of whether they were factory installed or dealer installed. The holes that are recessed are all standard and were probably cut during the dash panel stamping process. It would have been very difficult if not impossible to recess a hole after the dash had been stamped. Jim |
| JL Cheatham |
| Thank you Jim. Is it 3/8” hole diameter for mounting pump without recessed cups? Nick. |
| Nikolai Skliadnev |
| Nick, It is a 3/8" hole. i checked by using a 3/8" dril bit. I come up with X = 1-3/4" and Y = 1/8". My knobs and gauges are all out so I laid the dash face down on a piece of paper and traced the holes. Therefore, the tracing is the mirror image of my dash. See the pictures attached. 
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| JL Cheatham |
| Here is a picture of my dash with a tape measure showing the "X" measurement. Hope this helps. Jim 
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| JL Cheatham |
| Jim, Thank you for your measurements and pictures. It means factory installed washer pump could have different position. Gary Starr also has Heritage certificate but different location of the pump. Do you still have original washer pump? Could you send photos of the pump and pump’s knob. Nick. |
| Nikolai Skliadnev |
| Nick, What is your email address? That will be easier to send pictures since I only know how to attach one picture at a time to the messages on this site. Jim |
| JL Cheatham |
| Nick, Never mind about your email address. I have attached a picture of my pump showing the knob. I have taken all of the paint out of the letters and the ring in order to repaint them. Other pictures of my pump are on Barney's sight at http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/accessories/at105a2.htm Let me know if you have any other questions. Jim 
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| JL Cheatham |
| Jim, Thank you for pictures. My email is mganik59@gmail.com but I have already seen photos of your pump on Barney’s web site. I had purchased similar washer pump on eBay a few years ago but with different knob. The pump has two check valves. If you clean all gunk from the «jet» holes you will see brass bushes and brass balls under them. So the pump doesn’t need external valves. Nick. |
| Nikolai Skliadnev |
| Nikolai, just another washer pic. Siggi 
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| Siggi |
| Nick, My pump does not have the check valves that you indicate yours has. Can you post pictures showing the check valveless you refer to? Thanks Jim |
| JL Cheatham |
| "My pump does not have the check valves that you indicate yours has. Can you post pictures showing the check valveless you refer to?" Nor did mine. It seemed to work just fine with the one check valve in the bottle. |
| Chuck Schaefer |
| Picture of the check valves. Nick 
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| Nikolai Skliadnev |
| Nikolai has beaten me to it with the picture ( and his is clearer than the one I took last night ). I too am reassembling a September 57 MGA Coupe and my Heritage certificate indicates that the windscreen washer was factory installed. My pump is the same one as Jim Cheatham's with the same knob ( or it was, I've fitted an electric pump ) and does have the valves as described by Nikolai. There was also a check valve in the tube fitting in the bottle cap. I'm not sure if the pick up at the bottom of the bottle was just a filter or also had a check valve. No recessed cup, small neck bottle. ( But who knows what might have been original or changed over the years ... ) My dash had two extra 2" holes for an ammeter and temperature gauge - added by some previous owner. The washer pump had been relocated to a completely different postion, to allow one of those larger holes. All of those holes have been filled in - picture attached. So I don't have a hole for the washer pump, I am looking for a suitable switch to operate both the wipers and the electric washer pump. [ So, people from four countries involved in a relatively minor detail, that's pretty cool I think ] 
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| J N Gibson |
| J N, You can use standard MGA «Lamp Switch». In the first position it will switch wipers, in the second position – washer pump. It’s better to connect them in such a way that switching on washer pump the wipers are still working. Nick |
| Nikolai Skliadnev |
| JN, Do you still have your original washer pump? If so, would you sell it to me? Jim |
| JL Cheatham |
| J N, You can use standard MGA «Lamp Switch». In the first position it will switch wipers, in the second position – washer pump. It’s better to connect them in such a way that switching on washer pump the wipers are still working. Nick You beat me too it Nick! And the good part is that is how the switch is configured anyway. |
| Neil McG |
| Nikolia & Neil, My first idea was to use the standard 'Lamp Switch'. I did think that it might be a bit fiddly to operate, but of course no more so than in its normal use for the lights. ( I can't imagine how anybody came up with the design instead of a simple two position rotary switch. I suspect it might be something to do with keeping the size down for installation on a cramped panel ) I was really looking for some switch with a spring loaded second position; I thought about using a "Land Rover Series 3 and 101 Forward Control Wiper Washer Switch ( Part No. 579006)". That is turn on for wipers then push ( against a spring ) for wash. But that operation is a bit different from the pull on for most MGA switches, and it might also be a bit big to fit in the wiper switch position which has the ignition switch next to it. So, I picked up a spare MGA lamp switch this last weekend. Jim, I'm not sure my original pump would be much use to you. One of the outlet check valves doesn't work very well, the other not all; they might improve with cleaning but the in/out piece has some more damage at its edge than the one in Nikolia's picture. The rubber bulb is hard and cracked so probably doesn't really work well. I made a half-hearted search for a similar bulb - from a hydrometer or burette or something - but found nothing. , |
| J N Gibson |
| I did that trick a few years back of using the light switch for the wipers and electric pump. Unfortunately the repro switch I used was not up to it and rather intermittent. On one occasion I could not stop the pump. The water jet on the passenger side was aimed a tadge too high and my wife got quite a soaking! (remember I have a lowered sports windscreen). Took the switch out and hid a simple on/off switch on a plinth under the dash alongside the lighter socket (for sat nav). Unfortunately that has not been entirely successful either. My wife's knees keep catching the switch and giving her a shower! (not adjusted the jet. I find it useful to have a way to keep the passenger occupied). Steve |
| Steve Gyles |
| You will never believe what I have found! First, I did like Barney suggested and went to a pet store and bought two small check valves. I attached the rubber bulb to the back plate of the pump and attached the two check valves to the jet outlets of the back plate and connected the supply line to the washer reservoir bottle and the pump worked. So I was thinking how I could make it look a little more original and thought I would try and attach the check valves to the nozzle end of the tubing so it would be more out of sight. Then it dawned on me! The British couldn't have been that stupid so I decided to check the washer nozzles and sure enough, there is a check valve built into each of the nozzle assemblies. See the attached pictures. The tail piece that the tubing attaches to is the check valve! Now all I have to do is clean the nozzle assemblies up, glue the rubber bulb back to the pump back plate and I should have a functioning windscreen washer assembly!!! :) Jim 
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| JL Cheatham |
| Jim, Is it a picture of the dissembled washer jet? It looks like not original MGA part. Nick. |
| Nikolai Skliadnev |
| Nick, It is the disassembled washer jet and I think it is original. Here is an email from Barney Gaylord. Jim, This is way cool. Since you have a Heritage certificate indicating the screenwasher was factory equipped, it is very likely this one is original equipment. In the SPL there are three different jets listed, and three different pump assemblies. It also notes which jets are to used with which pumps. So there is some attention to matching check jets to non-check pump, and vice versa. I have posted your photos and notes here: http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/accessories/at105a2.htm Thanks, Barney |
| JL Cheatham |
| Sorry Jim. May be Barney is right and early cars had different washer pump and jets. I have never seen pictures of similar washer jets before. Nick |
| Nikolai Skliadnev |
| Did the MG supplied optional washer kits have any names on the parts? Just had a look at the pair of spray nozzles I took off the car during the rebuild in 1997 (car had been in a field for 22 years). The nozzles have 'TRICO' etched into the spray adjusting screw heads. No valves in them. Steve |
| Steve Gyles |
| There are no manufacturer names on my pump or the nozzles. The only name on any of my windscreen washer parts is Tudor on the bottom of the plastic bottle. Jim |
| JL Cheatham |
| These are my two washer jets. No idea if they are 'original' after market parts, but were definitely on the car back in 1973 (car is a 1958 USA export). I note that TRICO is an American company, but it had a production facility in the UK from 1928, so they could have been either UK or American sourced. No mention of being factory fitted on my Heritage certificate but could have been supplied as part of an MG after market kit? perhaps a mention that my dashboard was never drilled so goodness knows where the pump was fitted. Steve 
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| Steve Gyles |
| Jim, I think your washer jets are Tudor brand, see attached image of some NOS spare parts from a Tudor Windscreen Washer Spare Parts Kit. I don't have the jet itself or the small brass balls in the kit. These parts look exactly the same as yours. Garry 
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| Garry Kemm |
| I have the same jet/nozzle assemblies as Jim, I had forgotten that they have check valves in them. Current supply jets are smaller, almost too small to fit the mounting holes so I shall be re-using the original jets, although the chrome is not too good, until I come across something better. The washer bottle has 'Tudor' on the bottom, any printed name is long gone. There are no brand markings on any of the other parts. I think Tudor ( and Trico ) were mainly suppliers of such equipment to the 'accesories' aftermarket, although some companies including MG would have used them for factory or dealer installation. As such the designs might have been changed in small details by the supplier, with little if any input on that by MG. But, as Barney suggested, they probably needed to keep track of which jets needed to match which pump; I'm impressed that the 1500 SPL even lists a Car Number change point for these items. ( But no change in part number for any change in the bottle, which has no effect on any other items. ) Jim |
| J N Gibson |
| Steve I have washer jets like yours and they came from a Riley 4/72, circa 1962, reg KPO 666, which my parents owned. I took them off when we scrapped the Riley and put them on the A. They were original fitment on the Riley. |
| John Francis |
This thread was discussed between 14/12/2013 and 17/01/2014
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