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MG MGB GT V8 Factory Originals Technical - Got my T-5 today

I bought it off eBay. It's not what the seller said it was (surprise, surprise) but it looks like it is the M39 V8 F-body T-5 with the 2.95 1st gear and the .63 OD gear.

It was supposedly a world class T-5 from an '89, but it seems to be a non-world class from an '85. It should do if it's ok.

I'm a little ticked and wish I would be in NY soon.
Glenn

heh IT should be just fine for your MG, no worries. Rememebr those Fbody guys are hauling aroun 3600+lbs cars with lots more torque at the crank than a 215 will put out without major boost/modifications.
Larry Embrey

Larry has the idea!!

The WC or non-WC should last forever in a 2000 to 2400 lbs car that produces around 200 ft pounds of tq. in stock form. Besides, I would rather have a non-wc then a wc with poor gearing such as the S10 gearbox.
Regards,
-BMC.
BMC Brian McCullough

Glen, email me the numbers on the attached metal tag and I will try to run the numbers for you. Also mention the shaft length from the mounting surface to the tip of the input shaft. Include how many splines the input shaft has and the O.D. of the splined shaft. Dann
Dann Wade

Is it correct that the WC T5 is easier shifting than the non-WC T5?

Jim
Jim Blackwood

Only in the bigger cars because they do not go bang quite as easily. Only reason they might shift better is they handle the abuse a bit better. When fresh though, both should feel the same.
Larry Embrey

Dann, it's a 1352-072 which makes it an 85. It's the F-body T-5 because it has a 26 spline 1 1/8" diameter input shaft. I asked about all of this before I bought the tranny. When I asked the guy if it took ATF and said Timken on the countershaft bearing race he answered yes, which would make it a WC T-5. It was represented as a WC from an 89 IROC Z-28, but it's a non-WC from an 85 - he lied. The pilot shaft is about 1.075-1.080" long.

Jim, I don't know. Maybe the WC versions shift easier because they use ATF instead of gear lube.
Glenn

I am a novice to the T5,having just put mine in.The metal ID tag is completely rusted and un-readable.It does however have the above mentioned Timken showing on the bearing race and does have ATF and a 10 spline input shaft.I pulled it from a wrecked Mustang GT, not sure of the year other than it's pre '86,but it was not the original tranny the owner told me.I did not have time to even look inside the thing,just chucked it in but it works perfectly,no noise and first gear synchro even works great.Does this sound like a WC tranny? Dale
Dale

P.S. Glenn,I hope you left that guy some nasty negative feedback!!
Dale

Welcome to the land of ebay! I won't use ebay for something I can 100% verify either through pictures, or through an independent source. Even then there is still a huge risk involved. I've been burned a few times on ebay, but been rewarded many more times.

Most things in life are relative.
Justin
Justin

Glenn, On the side of the case is a circle with a two digit number inside. that is the year of manufacture. The mark around the circle represents the month. (Read that as you would the position of the numbers on a clock.)I don't have any info on the tag number. As long as you didn't get stuck on the price, it sounds like you have a good trans for your conversion. You can always check the ratios by putting some tape on the shafts with some marks and counting the turns as you rotate the input shaft.
J Davis

Dale
I believe the WC only started out in 86 --but not positive. Mine is from 861/2 Mustang V8. There is also a difference from he V6 applications.
The basic differences between WC and NWC according to the service manual is :WC has needle bearings under gears NWC has journals.
WC on blocking rings has fiber synchronizers --NWC has brass synchronizers.
The countershaft bearings on WC has tapered roller bearings --NWC has straight roller bearings.
Gil Price

Dale & Gil

Have a look at this.

http://66.96.130.106/archives/2000/09/t5swap/index2.shtml

Cheers

Pete
Pete Mantell

Dale,

GM switched to WC in '88 for the Camaro/Firebird line. Ford started using them in late '85. Look for the year in a circle on the main case. Timken tapered roller bearing would indicate WC.

'Bout time you got rid of that "sissy shifter"! :)
Carl

This is where it gets fuzzy.It indeed has the Timken race,I went to a site that illustrates both options and there is no question thats what I have.However the year on the case indicates it being an '84.I would like to think that the presence of the Timken race overides the year.Show of hands for a yea vote on this?On a related matter,I'm hoping that the new stroker will rid me of the "sissy shifter" label that I've carried for lo' these many years.......
Dale

Glenn, I could not find a reference for the number you gave me. It's a good number and I will keep trying.
Sorry, Dann
Dann

Here are a few links from my links page that help with the GM T5 identification.

Visual ID
http://garage-scene.home.att.net/t5_install_identifying.htm

Number ID
http://www.5speeds.com/t5/index.html

Gearing by Engine
http://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/calculations.shtml

My site
http://www.roverv8.com

Hope this helps a little.
Jake

Jake, I was going to try to post the first three links you posted - now I don't have to. I didn't have the Rover link.

T-5 info is hard to find, and those links are about as good as it gets from what I've seen.

Dann, you can select any T-5 number into the 5speeds.com link at the bottom of the page and it'll show the original application. Thanks for the effort.

Dale, if it says Timken it's a WC T-5.

John, I check the 1st and 5th ratios as soon as I opened the box using a method very similar to what you suggested - tape with a pencil mark on the pilot shaft, and some wadded up paper towel stuck in one of the output shaft splines. I'm pretty sure it has the 2.95 1st and .63 OD.

I was bummed about the non-WCness of the T-5 from eBay, but I'm glad it has the gears I wanted.

I'm pretty sure that if you want a GM T-5 with the 2.95 1st gear you need a 3rd generation (82-92?) Camaro or Firebird that had a 305/5-speed setup. It'll have 1 1/8" input shaft with 26 splines - 14 splines for a V6 and a lower 1st gear. I think the 4th generation F-body T-5s are modified Ford transmissions which use a different bellhousing.

I just hope the 3rd genie V6 F-body T-5 bellhousing will mate the 3rd genie F-body V8 T-5 to the V6 engine with no snags.

Thanks to all for the input.
Glenn

I almost forgot...

Not sure, but I believe the 4th genie GM F-body V6 T-5s (the Ford type) also have a 26 spline input shaft - so just because it's a T-5 with 26 splines from a Camaro/Firebird doesn't 100% guarantee that it'll have the 2.95 1st gear.

Check out Jake's first link and you'll see what I mean.
Glenn

Glenn,
I can confirm the fact about the 4th gen camaro T%, the V6 tranny does have the 26 spline, but it is a longer input shaft and is mounted to the bellhousing via the Ford bolt pattern. I learned this by eBay trial and error, but luckily was able to resell it and recoup my funds.
Jake

How does T-5 releate to Tremec transmission from Ford motorsports?
Boyce

Boyce wrote:

"How does T-5 relate to Tremec transmission from Ford motorsports? "

ALL T-5s are now made by Tremec - BW no longer makes them, and sold the tooling and the rights to Tremec a few years ago. In addition to the T-5s, Tremec also makes a transmission called, oddly enough, the "Tremec." It is quite a different transmission than the T-5, much bigger, and much more robust, but still a 5-speed.

For most of us, the Tremec is major overkill. Except for Les Shocky, of course! In the May - August 2002 issue of the newsletter ( http://www.britishv8.org/may2002.pdf ), Les has an article on putting the Tremec into a TR6. In this car, the Tremec was needed.
Dan Masters

"The Tremec" usually is what the TR-3550 and its TKO version are called - found in Mustangs and there are also come GM conversions for the old V8s.

http://www.ttcautomotive.com/
Glenn

3550 are basicaly very heavy duty T5's and TKO's are for supercharged 351w putting out 600rwhp. Might need a 3550 if you beat the crap out of a 302 mg (or put a nice vortech centrifical supercharger on it) but realistically, a world class motorspot t5 with a 2.95 first gear and .63 overdrive is a very happy trans for an mg with around a 3.27 - 3.55 gearing.

Justin
Justin

Glenn, I already had the link you suggested but I appreciate you passing on the info. I know that the number 1352-072 equates to the M39.The M39 is a 1985 V8 Camaro as you already know. I called Medatronics and they said they did not have any info on the ratios for that particular transmission or many others. Sorry, Dann
Dann Wade

Glenn,

I can't answer about the 5th gear ratio, but if you have a '85 V8 Camaro/Firebird (which is what 1352-072 is) it WILL have a 2.95 1st gear.

<<All 1983-1992 GM V8 T5s have a 26-spline ´ 1⅛-inch input shaft, a 2.95:1 first gear ratio, and a standard GM bellhousing bolt pattern. >>

Dale,

Was your tranny rebuilt from pieces/parts? :) Maybe you just have an older case. I don't know if the non-WC case and WC case are interchangeable, but why not?

Run it 'till you can afford that heavy-duty Tremec for your stroker engine. Just don't break it before next year's V8 Meet in Michigan.
Carl

Glenn,

If 1352-072 is a M39 (like Dann said) then it should have a .63 5th gear according to this chart:

http://garage-scene.home.att.net/t5_install.htm

Click on item 23. Gear Ratios on the left.
Carl

How do you know which is an M39 and which is a Mk6? My tranny is 1352-175, GM 1998 F Car B9 Racing 5.0L V WC, what will the 5th gear ratio be?
Regards
Tony
Tony Bates

Tony, yours if an 88 T-5 according to the link. As far as telling which 5th gear you have, I know two ways:
1) If it's in the car drive at 60 mph in 4th gear with someone driving beside you at 60 mph. Note the tach reading. Shift to 5th and drive along beside the car going 60 mph. Note the tach reading. If the 5th gear rpm is about 2/3 of the 4th gear rpm, you probably have a .63 5th gear. If it's about 3/4 of the 4th gear rpm, it's probably a .73 5th. You can use a calculator for better accuracy.
2) If the trans isn't in the car, mark the input and output shafts at 12:00 o'clock. Turn the input shaft until the output shaft comes back around to 12:00. Take a look ar where the mark on the input shaft is. That'll give you a good idea of the ratio.
Glenn

<<My tranny is 1352-175, GM 1998 F Car B9 Racing 5.0L V WC>>

Sounds like a serious tranny, Tony. If that Racing part means anything, I'm betting you won't find a .63 OD if that's what you want. The spread between 4th & 5th is too great. From my experience you only need a .63 if you are going to run the stock MGB gears.

I couldn't find any more info than you already know about your tranny on the web. Glenn's suggestions will get you a good idea of what you have.
Carl

Carl,
The tranny came from eBay, having just been rebuilt by the PO. The tranny is on the engine, "sitting" in the car. I am in the middle of a 74B roadster conversion including:
Sebring body kit with MGC hood
4.2L EFI Rover engine and T-5 tranny
Full A/C.
So the engine is not in a running state and is "in and out" of the car almost weekly.
Tony
Tony Bates

Glenn said:
"I just hope the 3rd genie V6 F-body T-5 bellhousing will mate the 3rd genie F-body V8 T-5 to the V6 engine with no snags."

Yes, the 1982-1992 CAMARO/Firebird and S10 V6/V8 bellhousings had the same shafts lengths and bolt pattern, so it is a direct match up... At least for the Camaro/firebird and S10 V6 engines.

Depending on what motor you are using, you will find different clutch/plate and flywheels to use.

-BMC.
BMC Brian McCullough

Tony,
I have the same transmission, the numbers match. In the ID program it says that the engine type is a B9 that corresponds to a .73 5th gear. The number you want to get a .63 5th is 13-52-176.
Jake
Jake

Hi Jake, thanks, that's clarified everything.
From another site, http://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/techdb.shtml , I have established that the 1988 B9 5.0l engine was only fitted in the IROC-Z Formula Trans Am GTA. End of mystery, I know the car and the ratios.......Yeh!!
Tony
Tony Bates

Brian, thanks for clearing up the bellhousing question.
Glenn

This thread was discussed between 25/09/2003 and 04/10/2003

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