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MG MGB GT V8 Factory Originals Technical - High Performance Rover V8

Hey!

I would like information about High Performance Rover V8s. I need some good reading material. I have read the David Hardcastle series of books about the Rover V8, but I would like to find out about High Performance Buildups. I would like to find out the potential of the 3.5/3.9 with single plane intake.

Are there Rover specialty shops that like to talk shop?

Thanks,
Jamie
H. J. Rodgers II

Again....talk with Dan Lagrou of D&D Fabrication. Dan built my bored and stroked Rover 3.9 for me.....rick
rick ingram

Jamie,

See Dan Lagrou's web site at http://www.aluminumv8.com

Are you going to be at the Townsend show this weekend? If so, come on over to the vendor area and say hello - I'll be there trying to sell some wiring kits and some books.
Dan Masters

You might consider a good starting point to be the 4.6 litre Rover V8 which is not as expensive as you might imagine.

John Eales offers a NEW 4.6 litre stripped engine (the one with the cross bolted block, and bigger main bearings) for £2,250. This is built up from all new components - more details on his website:-

http://www.rover-v8.com/

I have had a number of Rover V8 engines from John, plus an enhanced ECU for my RV8, and have always been delighted with his work and prices.

Nigel Steward

Hey!

Dan, I'll miss the conventions in Terre Haute and Townsend this year because of conflicts. I'll definitely be there for Pigeon Forge '06!

I have spoke to D&D Fabrications at aluminumv8.com before. I usually hear about the conservative figures of 200 to 250 horsepower. I want to find out about the 350 horsepower 3.5 liter monsters that are used in TVR racers. I figure 240 horsepower in a 2200 lbs MGB is equivalent to a 350 horsepower 3200 lbs stock C5 Corvette. Nice, but not scary fast. I'm thinking more like 350 horsepower in a 2200 lbs MGB equivalent to a 500 horsepower 3200 lbs Corvette. That is the league of performance I want from a MGBV8 project If I elect to start one. V8 Tuners elude to such powerful engines, but no writeup. I'm just getting information about how exotic the parts would be, like Wildcat Engineering cylinder Heads and multiple webers and such.

I love the idea of owning a MGV8 with the classic lines, the sound, and the notoriety. If 350 horsepower Rover engine costs more than a C5 Corvette, I'll get a Corvette. But I don't want a cookie cutter Corvette. That is why I'm finding out about MGV8s.

Jamie
H. J. Rodgers II

You know I sort of hate to say this, but you take that 2,250 add VAT and convert to dollars and you just found enough money to buy an aluminum 350 Corvette crate engine. Use a crank trigger to get rid of the distributor, and the only real issues left are headers and the steering shaft, both fixable. For big power, give that combination some thought.

Jim
Jim Blackwood

If you really want 350 hp, better look at a Ford 302 implant.
Edd Weninger

I don't think 350 hp is unreasonable from a rover v8. Take a 4.6L V8 or a 4.8L stroked V8 and put a vortech supercharger up front with an intercooler and that should tack on 100hp without any problems. Do some head work, get a good fuel injection system that you can custom map (megasquirt) and you'll be off to the races in no time.

NOT conventional, but who said stuffing a V8 in a 2200 lb car was conventional? =)

Justin
Justin

The RPI website is a good source of information.
http://www.rpiv8.com/homepage.htm

I rebuilt my RV8 (3.9 Rover, Hotwire EFI) to 5 litre with fast road cam, big valves with fully ported heads and manifolds, free flowing exhaust, cool air intake and new ECU chip. Not tested it but we reckon it's close to 300bhp.

David Boniface

Jamie...

The V8 meet in Townsend IS in 2006. It will be the weekend before MG 2006 based in Gatlinburg (*not* Pigeon Forge).

rick ingram
one of the coordinators for British V8 2005
and
Executive Director of the North American Council of MG Registers
rick ingram

RPI is pretty decidedly against superchargers and I don't agree with them entirely. If you go centrifugal (vortech, paxton, etc) the air is flowing into the same intake as a naturally aspirated motor, so any issues with some cylinders running lean and others rich would be an inherent problem of the design, not one of adding a new intake to hold a supercharger. (Which they are against).

I think 250hp from a NA motor is probably pretty easy. Getting 100hp from a supercharger isn't difficult either, so there you go.

If it were me, I would shoot for torque, not raw hp numbers. If you can jack up the torque significantly then you may only get say, 300hp on a dyno, but it'll drive like the 500hp C6 corvette, and THAT would be fun!

£2250 = $4175.00 We don't have to pay VAT (thank God!) so that could either 1) drop 17.5% off the price, or 2) not add it on at the tail end. Shipping a motor overseas would SUCK. Easily add $500.00 onto the price. It's not worth it. Dan Lagrou usually has 4.6L motors, or he can get you the parts to make one, or stroke out a 4.0L motor to make 4.8L with the buick 300 crank.

I think a 3.9 or 4.2 with supercharger is the way to go.

Justin
Justin

I've been trying to get a look at this book since last summer. For some unknown reason its release date keeps getting pushed back. It'll probably come out right after I get my 3.9 put together. :(

http://www.veloce.co.uk/shop/products/productDetail.php?prod_id=V217&prod_group=Performance%20Tuning%20&%20Modification

Personally, as much as I like the Buick/Rover, I would have to go with the dreaded Blue Oval for that kind of reliable HP. Though, I REALLY prefer the way Jim's thinking! Hmmm, aluminum 350 Corvette engine...... ;)
Carl

Blue oval vs BOP/Rover.....hmmmmm

It's become an article of faith that the 350HP from a Ford 302 is a lot easier and cheaper to get than the same HP from a BOP/Rover. Buying a crate engine from Ford, and then buying all the ancillaries needed to complete it, will run around $4,000 - $4,500 or so. No engine work is required - just stick on the intake, starter, exhaust, etc, and you're good to go.

What about the BOP/Rover? How much would 350HP cost, and how much engine work - boring, stroking, cam change, etc - would be required?

The amount of work required to get either engine actually in the car is about the same, the Ford requiring crossmember changes that the BOP/Rover doesn't.

Any one have some real numbers so we can make a valid comparison?
Dan Masters

If you just want the HP #'s just to embarrass the occasional Vette, Porsche, or Mustang or one of the new Jap Rockets like the WRX sti or Evolution you might consider the addition of a healthy shot of Nitrous oxide to an otherwise tame and conservative 250 HP BOP or R engine.

Just drop the compression bit and hit it with a 100 or 150 shot...no problem and wear and tear is only when you use it. A properly designed Nitrous Oxide system can now be used in the same sentence as the word SAFE as long as you utilize such items as programmed Nitrous timing and timing retard system with a WET system.

But be forewarned the giggle juice is addicting.

Just my 2 cents.
Michael S. Domanowski

I don't have any real world numbers for my theory of a supercharged 4.2L rover motor, but if everyone wants to chip in, I'm willing to "sacrifice" the motor I have sitting here for the better of all V8 B's everywhere. I'm also willing to sacrifice my car as the vehicle that holds this new motor for the sake of "rigorous testing" to make sure it's a viable option for everyone.

Should I include my address for donations to the group project? =)

Justin
Justin

I was thinking some about the running lean problem as mentioned by RPI and I figured it could be made a lot better by running the manifold and supercharger dry and using port injection to make sure the right amount of fuel made it to each cylinder. a huge throttle body on the end of the supercharger would be all that was needed and away you would go.
dave

If you look at the pictures they show, the supercharger is not covering the entire intake manifold. It is mainly pushing air into the first 3 cylinders on each bank. If you ask me, that's faulty design, not "superchargers in general" Rover motors have 19lb injectors stock on them, bump up to 24 or 30lb injectors and you'll probably have a hard time getting it to run lean....

Justin
Justin

Personally, for a blown engine I much prefer the roots design Eaton M-90, but it does require a custom intake, so that pretty much puts it out of the running if doing a comparison on a cost basis. Sorry to say I haven't had a chance to get any sort of hp figures yet either because I began re-designing the EFI system right after getting my G-Tech unit. But the good news is, you guys are gonna love the Enderle style blower scoop I'm building for it. Downsized for the M-90, it should be able to flow enough to support 400 hp or better, has an internal filter, and doubles as the throttle body for the EFI system. Definitely one very fast car, no question that the BOP/Rover can do the job, but cost? Well...
But if I was starting all over and had the nearly $5K to spend on the engine and wanted all that power? I honestly think I'd have to go dicker with Mr Goodwrench. They *will* deal on those motors.

Jim
Jim Blackwood

What about a GM LS1 and a T-56 6 speed combo in an MGB? A while back (2 years maybe)I ran across a web site about a guy doing this conversion, but the page was never updated. I am in the process of looking for an LS1 combo on e-bay and other sources. Is there anybody out there with any info or experience on this conversion?

Thanks

M. David McKelvie

1974 MGB GT 3.5
1974 MGB RD 3.5
1980 Rover SD1
David McKelvie

In your search for horsepower, don't forget the Buick 300. Mike Moore is the first to use this engine in an MGB, as far as I know. I put one in my GT, & I love it. Over 300 HP & gobs of torque, which is more important, & the cost is reasonable(?). It is an easy install, bolts in in place of a 215 or Rover, same mounts & block hugger headers. Cheap bell housings-$50.00- to bolt up to a T-5.

Come to Terre Haute & drive it.
Jim Stuart

O.k. Time to chime in here.. I just bought a Suzuki Samurai with a 4.3 vortec v6 and 200r4 tranny. It is 2 wheel drive and screams.
I keep looking at the MG engine bay and wondering. I'll take some measurements if nobody here has tried to fit one.
The samurai weighs in at less than 2000 lbs and I've had it up to 120 with 1/4 petal left to go. I don't have any test numbers for you but I've scared a few passengers in it and beat a few of the locals in their Japaneese "cars".
kids1

"Come to Terre Haute & drive it."

Oh, goody. I can't wait! :) :) :)
Carl Floyd

To Carl from TN - I am in the same boat wrt the book. I actually got an email back from Veloce saying that the book is starting to be printed in May (of this year!). Here's hoping.

I have a 4.6 in pieces and my goal is 300 street friendly HP. I've been doing a lot of research in books and web sites and in my opinion it seems that an atmo, non nitrous BOP has trouble getting over 1 HP per cubic inch without getting exotic. For example David Boniface from Tokyo and his RPI engine, all good components - big valve heads, cam, EFI, 5 ltr (+/- 300 cid) and he is estimating 300HP.

From reading performance engine mags like Engine Masters and Hot Rod's engine specials, the Ford and Chev builds seem to regularly and relatively easily achieve over 1 HP/CI.

In my humble opinion for a large displacement atmo, non nitrous Rover V8 to get significantly over 1 HP/CI (350-360HP from 4.8/5.0 ltr) Wild cat heads (kidney shaped combustion chamber, re-designed ports etc), hyd / solid roller cam and associated hardware is a very expensive but necessary starting point.

I would be very happy to learn about other atmo non nitrous combinations that well get over 1 HP/CI with rover / buick 300 heads and a flat tappet cam.

Graeme

G Weston

Carl-

You get at least 1 run on any autocross that we run, & a pass on the drag strip if you promise to shift at 5500 rpm.
Jim Stuart

"You get at least 1 run on any autocross that we run, & a pass on the drag strip if you promise to shift at 5500 rpm."

I may be a shiftin', but that don't mean I'm a liftin'! ;)

:) Many thanks, Jim., but I don't think you have REALLY thought this out. :) :)

Back when I used to play on the dragstrip with my old '68 Camaro, I would speedshift @6500, the tach would jump to about 7200 in between gears.

Dragracing can be VERY hard on a straight drive car. Therefore, I think I will let the owners abuse their own cars at the strip. It is a looong way home for many.

If everyone brings spare parts, hopefully we can all rally to fix any broken cars we might have. :)
Carl Floyd

This thread was discussed between 12/05/2005 and 23/05/2005

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