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MG MGB GT V8 Factory Originals Technical - Inspiration strikes for a dilapidated old XKE ...

I thought this might amuse some of you ... I recently inherited a Series I Jag XKE coupe ... after looking through the car (it's not in terribly good shape, especially mechanically, but there's no rust at least), I've decided to mate it with an '85 Corvette, and take the FI drivetrain out of the 'Vette and make it work in the XKE. Getting the rear cage shortened oughta be interesting, but it's so easy to just use air bag springs like the hot rodders so. One cool Brit street rod, comin' up!! This promises to be a ton of work but I thought someone here might take pity on me. Oh, I'm going to try putting a Webasto sunroof in just to take it over the top! Come visit me at the mental hospital in a couple of years ...
Ted

Why not just use the Jag rear end? They are more sought after than the Corvette rear and may be stronger, with less unsprung weight. I would think that getting narrower spings for the Vette would be a problem.
George B.

Ted,
I tend to hold the XKE in the same regard as a pristine MGC. They're beautiful, they're just plain beautiful. I know putting the drive line from a vette in the car would be an amazing site, but after seeing a pristine, clean, gorgeous original 6 cylinder in one, I don't think you should molest the car. I think they're just too beautiful, and too rare to do that to. I'm certainly not goin to shun you or put out a bounty on your head if you do it, in fact, I'll want to see pictures of it while you're working, and when it's done. But damn what a beautiful car. Have you any pics of how it looks now?

Best of luck in whatever you choose to do =)

Justin
Justin

George,

Remember that the Corvette has an all-aluminum rear end -- it is much, MUCH lighter! It also comes with a posi, and mates up to a nice alu. driveshaft (of course I'll have to have that finagled with). The 6-cyl. XKEs, as you'll recall, all had spline-drive wheels, so I'd need to get different hubs, etc. to use bolt-on wheels. And they didn't include posi's until the V12s came along. But the real killer is the rear brakes -- you'll recall that an XKE has inboard brakes and something as simple changing out the brake pads is just absolutely brutal. Corvettes have wonderful brakes and I'm going to scavenge both the front and the rear suspension.

The Vette springs, nice as they are, have to be discarded entirely, as each side has to be shortened considerably. Most of the hot-rodders just use air bags, and supposedly the ride is just superb. You can also use coil-overs if you are very good at math!

Justin, I hear ya, but a motor rebuild on the 4.2L I6 is about $8K and then you're still left with endless headaches. I really don't need a vintage Jag in my life just now. I think I'll try to take what I've learned with my MG V8 conversion -- which has proven nearly bulletproof once I got it sorted out (yes, I admit, that took _forever_) and try to apply it to the Jag. The engine bay is, for one thing, infinitely roomier and more accessable.

The challenge, as I see it, is to try to do this while leaving inside and outside absolutely bone stock. Track, ride height, etc. will all appear factory. May have to tub the rears to get more rubber under there -- the Series Is have a very narrow track in the rear. I am thinking of using Minilite wheels though; I think they look just awesome.

One serious task is going to be leaving the console and shift stick just as they are. I've seen lotsa yecchy Jag conversions where they just rip everything out and put in a Ford toploader, stick comes out any old place with a nasty old Mr. Gasket shift boot. I think the 'Vette gearbox would be a BAD idea, because it is so wide. I'm thinking T56 if I can figure out what to do about the fact that the stick comes out at an angle.

As far as the motor, I could just use the Vette FI SBC, or there is a crashed Camaro with an LS1 in the local wrecking yard. I don't know which would be better; those SBCs are cheap to maintain, but the LS1's a featherweight and simply a gorgeous design.
Ted

I shoe horn a 302 into a XKE. The challenge is the front cage of tubing. The two top rails will get in your way with the exhaust headers and the heads, the flex center chassis plate that houses the torsion bars will have to be modify, motor mounts will have to be low due to clearence for air cleaner, this puts the tail shaft out of alingment with the diffrential. The rear suspension is best to convert to Corvette with coil overs, these can be bought. etc... Yes it can be done, it really makes a fun car to drive.
Remember that Chevy V8's were put in in those early jags, they were call.....Listers
Bill Guzman

Guys,

Not to bore you with this non-MG project, but I do really respect your opinions: do you think I should use the EFI Chevy 350, or should I go with the LS1? The more I think about it, the better idea the LS1 sounds like, although I realize parts are much more costly. The LS1 is of course much, much lighter -- I think 200 pounds or so. Any opinions?
Ted

Ted,
Although that 6 cyl Jag engine is a thing of beauty, I can sympathise with the problems of rebuilding and maintaining it. In my opinion, the SBC, although simple and reliable, is just a little too basic and unsophisticated for an XKE. If you're going to change it, I think the Jag deserves the LS1, being a more advanced and exotic design. You should be able to sell off the Jag drivetrain to someone who's more of a purist, to help finance your project. Have fun!

Joe
Joe Ullman

I must admit my bias right off - I own a 64 E type roadster. I'll mention a few things you might think of before changing motors, rears etc. The brake pads are easy to change. Yes, they are inboard, but designed for servicing. Its simply a matter of pulling the old ones out, and inserting new ones. The suspension stays in place.
A T56 box won't come close to fitting in an E, its simply too wide and too long. Even the T5 box requires a custom shortened tailhousing, and it it just barely fits. There isn't even room for the mechanical speedo drive off a T5.
You don't mention the year, but all series 1 E types for the US market had 3.54 posi diffs. The rear is incredibley strong on these cars, the diff can handle 800 hp, plus most of it is sprung weight.
$8K for a motor rebuild? Are you gold plating everything? The best rebuilder could be considered to be Classic Jaguar and they charge $6K. Assemble it yourself and parts and machining shouldn't cost more than $3K, and that is replacing everything except the block, crank and head. If you really want to go cheap, pull the motor out of a rusty pre 87 XJ6. You can often pick up good running motors for less than $500. However, try the 6. Its part of the charm of the car, and has lots of torque. Its simple to maintain and easy to work on, plus very tough. I have a friend with a 1968 that has 600,000km on the original motor!
A final note, be careful of the front tubular subframes that carry the engine and front suspension. They are a special alloy that is furnace brazed and heat treated after assembly. The manual is very explicit that they must never be welded, brazed, or any attempt made to straighten bent frame rails. If you need to do any of that to shoehorn in a V8, you seriously comprimised the strength and safety of the car. Is your life worth a V8?
Craig

Ted,
Reconsidering my posting, I tend to agree with Craig, especially since he seems to know E types. What you spend on an LS1 conversion I think would pay for the rebuild. And by the time you get all the bugs sorted and the computer wired in, you could do lots of maintenance. I also have heard from Jag mechanics that they can change the rear pads without much trouble. Thinking about it, you should keep that six; they're just too pretty to rip out if you don't have to. Joe
Joe Ullman

That's a super heads-up Craig. I really don't care to use the Jag I6 in this instance but I'm certainly alarmed at the possible weakening of the alloy frame. Hmmm, gotta really think about that. Maybe our good old friend BOP/R will fit!
Ted

I think the Jag is a much stronger engine than any of the BOP/R engines, but I'll duck the flames.
George B.

Ted - I tend to go along with Justin on this one. The car is yours and you have the right to do what you like with it. (my next door neighbour is obsessed with diesels and puts them in everything he buys).
The main draw back in buying a Series 1 E type (incidently one of the most sought after models) is always going to be rust and body condition - the rest you can deal with. As a restored car it is going to be worth three or four times that of a chopped special. If the motor is on it's last legs you can always stick a 2nd hand XJ unit from a scrappy as a temporary measure. I would keep it original mate and do what you can with it! (failing that we could always negotiate a reasonable price + postage and packing (only joking!))
Martin

Why don't you consider joining the E type list on Jag Lovers? There are lots of good people there who can walk you though any problem your car might have. It's an invaluable resource for restoring and maintaining an E type. http://www.jag-lovers.org/e-type/

I hate to see the originality of a good car taken away, espcially considering how valuable the E types have become. Have you considered selling this car an then buying one that already has a V8 conversion done to it? Or even better, drive a well restored 6 cyl E Type, and you might think twice about changing the motor!

Pardon my ignorance, but whats a BOP/R engine?
Craig

BOP/R

Buick (olds pontiac?)/Rover
The alloy V8 215ci/3.5l or bigger same as in an MGBGT V8
Paul

Ted,
follow your heart and not your head- yank the XKE's driveline, the whole thing, IRS too and sell it all to me, cheap. I'm converting my XK 140 to a retro-racer and I could use that junky old XKE driveline of yours. While you're at it, would you mind throwing in those old bucket seats too? I bet they're trashed by now anyway so I'll take 'em off your hands, cheap I hope.
Vist the conversion pages at
http://www.jag-lovers.org/lumps for the real skinny on XKE lumping. Sooo much outstanding knowledge for free.
Cheers,
JM
75 Jaguar XJC/350(LPG)/700R4
55 XK 140 OTS

ps- anybody got any Lucas 7" Flamethrower driving lights for sale?
John Morgan

Hi Ted,
I drove an XK120 Coupe once and the damn gearbox was so bad I had to start out in 3rd a few times. The engine didn't have any trouble doing it! Your XKE has the later tranny, I think? So you probably won't have any such problems, but if you are worried about your XK engine having to "show off", I have a Mark 2 that needs a four-speed which I'll be getting to when I'm done with my wife's Bugeye and my other 'B. Let me know if you feel the need to part with you Jag's tranny, I'm philosophically opposed to driving an automatic!

Also, I had heard there's an MG museum in Keene, New Hampshire. Do you know anything about this?
Wade Keene

Guys, you can probably have the driveline stuff dirt cheap. I know this will offend many, but heck this is the "V8 Conversions" board and this is about as good an audience as I'm gonna get! The problem with keeping it bone stock is that I don't want just a weekend car; everyone I've ever known who has owned one has had to confine their use in this way. I want it to be dirt cheap to maintain, and totally reliable. My V8 MG has also made me a sucker for serious power in a nice light car.

Craig's heads-up is vitally important ... this BBS is just so awesome. I talked to a race car shop -- tons of expertise in fabbing safety cages -- and they can indeed do the modifications to the frame that will be required to allow the V8 to fit. They will document every mod, too. So hopefully that'll work. Additionally, the LS1, being more compact than an SBC/TPI setup, just may cram in there but I'm dubious about the upper rails.

(To put some of the bad vibes to rest, I want you to understand what a complete beater this car is. The one and only thing it has going for it is, it has very little rust. Other than that, it's shot. The motor hasn't been run in years ... just for s^&ts and giggles, I have half a mind to try and start 'er up!)
Ted

Then the car has a lot going for it. Rust is usually the E Types worst enemy, mechanics are easy to put right, its the body work that costs the big $. As for a weekend driver, that could be expected for a car that is 35+years old and on who knows how many owners.
It doesn't have to be that way, however. A well maintained and cared for car will be dependable. Do search on the E type list at www.jag-lovers.org for Pascal Gademer. He thinks nothing of driving from Miami to Limerock for the weekend, and typically does it in one day. He slaloms and races his E (http://www.jcna.com/library/news/2002/jcna0088.html) and it has always been reliable.

However, if by weekend car, you mean you can drive 1300 miles in a weekend comfortably and relaibly, then I'm guilty as charged!
Craig

Ted,
I'm assuming that from your comments about attempting to start the old girl up, the engine is not frozen. If that's the case, then my unsolicited and hopefully, unnecessary advice is to treat the valve train with a great deal of suspicion before your actually spin the beast for a start.
Based on a couple of bitter experiences with "barn-found" XK's, inlet valves can become lazy on re-seating fully in XK engines that have been static for extensive periods of time. On the first few cycles of the camshafts, gum, corrosion etc can slow affected valves return in the guides on closing, result- tipped valve, no compression, possible piston damage and in severe cases, a trapped valve head that can get driven further into the extremely narrow land between the spark plug hole and the inlet valve's seat.
Put me on the list for parts f.s. if you decide to lump the old girl then please-
cheers, JM
John Morgan

Put me on the list for jag parts you don't want as well. Never hurts to have a spare motor in the garage.
Craig

The E type is a marvelous looking car. Did many come with the V-12? Did many come with a standard transmision? Did any come with the V-12 and standard tranny?
Saw a gorgeous one in the movie '52 Pick Up' on TV last night. Too bad it got blown up in the end. The movie also had a rubber bumber MGB involved in an accident.
Dana

To answer your questions, the E was built between 1961 and 1974. The V12
was introduced in 1971 and replaced the 6 cyl engines in the E types
only.

There were 3 models over the cars lifespan, the roadster, coupe and 2+2.
The 2+2 was a coupe stretched 9" and with a slightly higher roofline to
allow more space for the rear seat passengers. When the Series III (V12)
came out in 1971, this wheelbase is what roadsters were built on as
well, and the coupe was dropped. Automatic was only available on the
long wheelbase models, so all 3.8 litre cars (1961-64) were manual. Most
4.2 litre were manual, with the automatic option only on the 2+2 , 4.2
litre. No 6 cyl (4.2 or 3.8) roadsters had the option of automatic.

You will see V12 (5.3 litre) automatic roadsters, but its probably a
50/50 split to the manual cars. So yes, you could get a V12 manual
transmissioned car.
anonymous

Check out page 74 of the current (December) issue of Hot Rod magazine.
Dan Masters

Dana,
E-Type Series III production numbers - 7955 OTS and 7298 2+2, of which approx 65% were exported to the USA. No stats to hand on auto V's manual. BTW, there are E-Type bulletin boards if you want more info. I did consider an e-type before embarking on my V8 conversion, but my head won over my heart. I came to the conclusion that there is no such thing as an affordable e-type (roadsters at least). There are 2 kinds of e-type ....those that have had big money spent on them and those that need big money spending on them!
Pete Green

> There are 2 kinds of e-type ....those that have had > big money spent on them and those that need big
> money spending on them!

That's what I hope to get around here. Using a Corvette driveline and suspension, except swapping in an LS1 and T5 to go behind it, will hopefully make for a thoroughly bombproof daily driver. Among other things, I'm going to just install a street-rod-type Painless or Centex wiring harness.

Of course I could just get a Vette. Simple problem: I don't like Vettes. Case dismissed.

I am hoping to get the car down to 2700 lbs., and 350+ horsepower. If achieved, should be pretty sprightly, and by using the Corvette suspension there should be perfectly sufficient braking.

The one thing I'm totally confused about is gearboxes. There are about a billion models of the T5 out there. Clearly I want a World Class model with the less-extreme overdrive ratio of .73. Beyond that, I'm stuck. Any suggestions? It sure would be sweet to have the gear stick in the stock location -- even though in stock E-Types it's so far forward that first and third are a real stretch.
Ted

Here's all you need to know about fitting a T5 into a Jaguar: http://www.5speeds.com/

The short answer is that there is no way a T5 from a Ford or GM application will fit, you need a custom tailhousing and gear set. Not cheap either way you look at it.
Craig

Craig: super, ultra-helpful. Molto grazie. This BBS is the best, the best, the best!

I just called those guys and ... it seems almost impossible to put a T5 behind and LS-1. The LS-1 doesn't -- apparently -- use what we normally think of as a bellhousing, and they said while you could get something other than a T56 in there, to do it it would be murderously difficult. So they urged me to just use, instead of an LS-1, a good ol' SBC/TPI setup, and then there a tens of millions of bellhousings available everywhere you look. Big weight penalty I suppose, but at least parts are dirt cheap.

They were of the opinion that I could get a T5 in there without modding the tranny tunnel at all, and can put the shift stick in precisely the stock location. How great would that be?
Ted

6 cylinder to V8 ford


http://www.jcijag.com/xke/xke6.htm

says SBC won't fit without MAJOR rework of the frame.

You know you're going to burn in hell for this, right?

I'd like the compay and all, but just so we're clear.

Regards,

Brian
Brian Corrigan

It really does not require much reworking at all ... not nearly so dramatic as you'd think from reading the John's site. The nice thing is that the engine bay is SOOOOOO much more open than in the MG. E.g., the headers should be a breeze.

I will, concededly, burn in hell. Such is life!
Ted

Ted,

When you get done stripping the drivetrain out of your corvette, can I have the body? I'm looking to convert a Corvette to an XK engine and need a donor body.
Roger

Ted,

STOP - DROP & ROLL! Your mind must be ablaze. I have a 1971 E-Type, V12 manual, had a complete rebuild, no rust, and the car drives fantastic. After reading all the things you'll have to do, I wonder....If you are mechanically inclined enough to do this Frankenstein thing, you should be good enough to maintain the original. I can't imagine "mating" the two cars you mentioned. There ought to be a law against doing that to a Series I XKE. Surely, hellfire and damnation awaits you. :-P
Ginger

Ginger, I have no doubt it would drive great in OE spec. Having had great success with my MGBGT V8 conversion, I want to take it up a notch, that's all, and build a first-class sleeper. No reason other than because I want to do it! I wish you'd not go into the "there oughta be a law", though. I live in New Hampshire, where license plates say, "BE FREE OR DIE"!
Ted

Shouldn't that be "Live Free or Die"?
(General John Stark, July 31, 1809)
Dana

A series 1 E-Type is recognized as a Milestone Vehicle, a Classic, and a historic vehicle, that's why a complete matching number car needing a total restoration is worth between $7000 and $10,000
(http://www.classicjaguar.com/evalue.html) Why not trade your car for another thats not a complete vehicle? Of course by cutting up yours, it increases the value of surviving matching number cars. By the way, that's a Dana rear end with posi under that car, and if you want to use something other than wire wheels just change to XJ-6 rear hubs.(the're Chevy bolt pattern) You won't have much of a sleeper though as you are going to have to modify the bonnet. I helped build a Jag-Chev halfbreed back in the 70's and since then have only recommended the Ford 5 litre. It's narrower and lighter and can produce the same hp.
Just my thoughts
Phil '64&'67 E-Types
Phil

Dana, sorry, I hadn't had my coffee yet ... what a moron I'm capable of being!

Phil, I'm not gonna have to modify the bonnet -- the SB Chevy w/TPI isn't terribly high. With the Corvette IFS there's gonna be plenty o' room since it can nestle right down there.

I know this whole projects strikes many of you as utterly lacking in fundamental human decency, but I would respectfully say, just sit back and enjoy ... it's going to be super!
Ted

Ted;
Save yourself a lot of work, just buy this one and make it SAFE. It looks like your kind of project.
(http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=187204079)
Sorry the site wouldn't fit all on one line. You might want to consider it. You would have to change out the front subframes for series 3 so the chevy engine would fit properly(ie not cutting away the top frame rail) but it would save another original, complete vehicle. Just a thought.
Phil
Phil

Ted;
I guess it did all fit but I forgot a number,it should read, (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1872704079) Sorry 'bout that. With this wide body version you might not have to narrow your 'vette rear end if you choose to use it. As far as spline drive wheels, series 3 E-types came with STEEL wheels(chevy bolt pattern) wire wheels were optional.
Phil
Phil

Phil, awesome find! That has to be the best looking Jag I have ever seen! Wish I had the funds to get her.

Galen
G.P. Copes

Phil, thanks for pointing that out ... interesting, but not what I'm trying to do ... am much more interested in creating a true sleeper with modern brakes -- that car sounds downright terrifying! I must say that even though my intention is to leave the body and track bone stock, I must say that the converter of that car looks to have handled the rear flares with great aplomb. The side pipes look absolutely, totally wrong to me though!

Are those Fiero seats they've got in there, BTW?
Ted

This thread was discussed between 04/11/2002 and 16/11/2002

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