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MG MGB GT V8 Factory Originals Technical - Questions for people that have put Ford V8's in MG

When you placed the engine in the car how did you know where to put the motor mounts?

What where the major obstacles you faced when trying to put the Ford engine into your cars?

Was steering shaft affected due to the width of the engine and if it was what steps where needed to correct this measure?

As for manual transmissions or gearboxes was any modification to the engine bay or transmission tunnel/ tunnel entry need to be made?

Transmission cross member how did you make this and was it in the stock location?

Exhaust issues did people have when trying to get the exhaust ports and exhaust manifolds to fit in the car?

What is the average time and money do you have into your ford V8 conversion MG?
E. Walter Johnson

Heh you really opened up a big list of stuff there..

#1, there is no kit, so teh cost of a 302/5.0 ford conversions will be dependant on your skill and ability to fabricate mounts etc on your own. You WILL HAVE to notch the cross member, unless you want eh entier motor sticking out of the hood.

The motor for me told me were it needed to be. I put it as far back as possible and the side to side set itself, just made sure I had equal space on each side. The mounts were the same thing. the only feasible way I saw to do it was off the crossmember.

I did not have any steering shaft clearance issues.

T5 tranny with stock bellhousing fit the car just fine. I did a lite clearancing on the driver's side tunnel but it proved to be un-needed. You will need to move the shift lever openeing forward maybe 1" just like for a buick.

Tranyy k member is a modified stock unit in stock location. I cut the forward strut assembly off, notched the sides of it, then drilled holes for the stock T5 mount. I also added a 1/8" spacer under each side of it for angles etc, but I will be rechecking that after doing changed this winter.

Exh is entirely custom and I saw no way of doing hugger headers with my mounting. so you are going out the fenders like the RV8 exh for buicks.

Time and $$ like I said is entirely on your skills. someone with hotrod/fabrication experience could probably get it done quickly, maybe even a single weekend if they know what to do in advance.. Making the headers would be the hardest part.

Take a peak at my site. While it can be a challenge, for me the challenge was more engine assembly than the actual conversion..
Larry Embrey

At a car show over the summer I took a REAL good look at Steve Carricks car, and his mounts were welded to the frame rails further back then the original late model B mounting points. Maybe he'll chime in with some information for those of us looking at 302 conversions.

Justin
Justin

Steve's set up was inspired by Ted Lathrop of FastCars, Inc ( Wayland, MI ). It provides a MUCH stronger mount to the body.

ric
rick ngram

Larry pretty much covered most of it.
Is your B chrome or rubber. If its chrome then you will have to make firewall mods as well.
I used mounts from an early 60's Comet with 260 as recommended by Dale Spooner. These fit nicely between the frame rails.
I had to notch the front cross member slightly as well.
If you can make it to the British V8 meet in Tennessee May 1,2,3 would be a good starting point - the wealth of knowledge at the meet will be invaluble.
Pete Mantell

<<T5 tranny with stock bellhousing fit the car just fine. I did a lite clearancing on the driver's side tunnel but it proved to be un-needed. You will need to move the shift lever openeing forward maybe 1" just like for a buick.>>

Larry,

I know this thread is for the MGB/Ford V8, but I want to clarify your above statement. Moving the the shifter hole forward only applies to the Ford T-5 with a Buick/Rover as the Ford T-5 shifter is 2 3/8" closer to the bellhousing than the Camaro V8 T-5. I made no mods to the shifter hole on my '79 MGB.

Now, back to the topic. :)
Carl

This seemed appropriate given the topic at hand:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2407827810&category=33615

Justin
Justin

Rick
I built my car long before I met Ted.

Walter
The motor mounts are from an early 70's LTD (PAW sells them for putting a 302 in a ranger) The drivers side has to be modified for steering shaft clearence. The frame mounts are hand made and welded in. The trans tunnel and (tran)crossmember requires the same mods as all other conversions. The challenging area is the oil filter and the main cross member, both areas of modification will depend on how far back you position the engine.

Steve

Steve Carrick

Man that is SOOO unfair!! I paid $750+100core charge +tax for mine!! GRRRR

Heh

Sorry about the shifter thing. I am close with Kurt Biedler and he did the standard buick/gmT5 and I know he had to make a new console panel for his as the shifter location was changed. maybe it changed side to side rather than forward. What I liked about mine was that all I have to do was remove the oval plate and then make a new console panel, so not cutting the tunnel.

I wish I had known about the commet mounts, might have made things a touch easier. As it was I wanted to keep the chassis modifications to a minimum. I only cut the original mounts off the frame rails and then cut for header exits. Everything else on my car is K-member based.

On the oil filter, that is a easy solution, you need to get a TD Performance remote oilf filter adapter. #1413 I think. It is a remote adapter that is 90*

The ford is a GREAT motor. as mentioned in my TIPS page, GET A COMPLETE 1985+ MOTOR. witht he fords you want a Roller block, I had a older one and just got tired of the constant issues with crank balance (maybe just not have acces to right people for parts?) Going to the '99 Explorer block made things very easy.
Larry Embrey

Larry/Steve:
Think the ford fuel injection system would fit under the hood with where you have your motors mounted? I was checking out some intake manifolds at the performance shop last Friday, and it looked like you could mill the lower portion of the manifold to reduce the height by around an inch or so. Not sure if it will still clear the valve covers, but the possibility is there!

Justin
Justin

Justin,
Issue will be your clearance from fuel rail to upper intake. I have looked at this a bit, then there is valve covers, though the 94/95 valve covers or low profile and ay help. Another issue is many of the ford EFI intakes do not come to eath other at parallel engles, that means milling could make bolt holes and ports not match up??

PLUS the ford EFI distributor is taller than the non EFI units like the mallory unilite, and would not fit under my hood when I checked.

I have a set of mustang EFI stuff here for my other car project, I will take a peak at it and see what I can find though.
Larry Embrey

Justin,

FWIW, the mounting flange for the air cleaner on an Edelbrock port fuel injection system is exactly the same height as the flange on a carburetor. I know that wasn't your question, but maybe it will be of some interest anyway. I'm using the Edelbrock system on my own Ford conversion.
Dan Masters

Hey I should update and clarify what I just said. ANYTHING can be MADE to fit, it is just up to the amount of modifying you are willing to do.

With my new motor I ran into clearance issues with the steering rack due to the new balancer used on the explorer block, which shortens the motor length by around 1.5" SO I was faced with cutting and dropping the steering rack. I decided to go for it (It is a project, so why not have fun!?) and I dropped the rack as far as possible before the stering shaft would actually hit the top of the cross member. That opened the door to lowering the motor further. I believe I dropped the motor a total of maybe 1/2" from previous. (I removed 2 cross member pads which is about 1/2" total) With that done on a whim I installed the factory EFI distrib I have lying around and with the hood cross brace removed over the distrib it fits!! It grases the hood a touch, but no worse than my mallory did before. SO, that is one hurdle down.

Looking at the fuel rails and intakes of the 5.0 I have for my fairmont, there is only about 1/4" total that could be milled off the intakes as a pair before the fuel rails start hitting the upper intake. One possibility may be to use a "box" upper like comp cams or one other one out there. They are designed for turbo applications and flow very well at high rpms but will sacrifice torque. While we may not need to much torque, the torque will mellow out the motor's power band and make the power much smoother. I will keep looking into this more, as ford 5.0 EFI stuff is much cheaper overall than the edelbrock or Holley kits if you know where and what to look for. I just bought a run to wreck 91 mustang for $386 DELEVERED to my driveway.. That is engine, all electronics still running, tranny, DS and rear end..

THAT SAID, in the Edelbrock and Holley kits defense, they are FULLY programable, and will fit on ANY car using a square bore cab flange. That makes then EXTREMELY usefull especially in our little cars.
Larry Embrey

Larry your site does not seem to work for me. Do you have another link that I could try?
Jim

It didn't work for me either when I clicked on the link ((Explorer), but it worked when I cut & pasted it.
Derek Nicholson

It worked for me..? The site may have been down for maintenance.
Larry Embrey

this is what I get

UNRESOLVED_HOSTNAME
The URL does not exist as typed. Check the spelling of the URL to ensure it is correct
Jim

This will work:

http://www.mgbconversions.com/
Carl

Larry,

Have you had the car out on the road with the new steering setup? I'm certainly no expert when it comes to these things, but if the rack has been lowered more than a fraction of an inch, you will quite likely end up with unsatisfactory steering, especially during any type of front suspension movement.

Regards.
Alan Raddatz

Yes I am aware it will affect toe-in right away, I am working opn flipping the steering knuckles over to attach from below to make up the difference in hieght of the rack. I will let everyone know how that goes. Car is LONG ways from the road right now, bieng off work I lost both $$ and access to a machine shop heh I Just started back to work, so onc eI get the commuter car done I can jump back to the B.

Larry
Larry Embrey

Larry, that's definately an interesting approach, would likely make a lot of conversions much easier if it turns out successful.

Good luck.
Alan

It is a trick i was told by a gentleman that had lowered his B to fix excessive toe in from when he used lowering front springs. I will of course need to get the vehicle alignment re-done once I do it.
Larry Embrey

Larry:

Do you plan to simply swap the steering arms side for side and flip the rod ends over? That might work for my lowered 67. I will have a closer look at the plan. Thanx

Pete
Pete

Pete,
The arms on the kingpins simply unblot from the kingpin. AFTER you disconnect the rack turnbuckles and balljoints from them!

So once they are off the kingpin simply swap them to the other side, so that the tapered hole for the rack balljoints faces down rather than up like nornal.

PLEASE NOTE!! A Firemd of mine did that and have clearance issuew with his wheels!! Now, he did not have stock wheels, but it may be a good idea to pop one of the ball joints out and hold it under the steering arm to do an "eyeball" check if you will have clearance issues. I have the arms swapped already as I did not know of this potential issue and have yet to check this issue...
Larry Embrey

Larry"

I had clearance issues when I first assembled the car with the centre lock aluminum wheels. As it turns out, MGB have two different tie-rod ends; one is larger than the other. I had a new set that was smaller than the old originals, and that solved the clearance problem. Thanx for a tip that was in front of me the whole time.

Pete
Pete

I say put the EFI in the car with a scoop/ram air scoop on the hood and enjoy the EFI set up.
William

heh Yeah scooping the hood would be against everything I want for THIS car though, so it is NOT going to happen. I have spent to long and too many hair pulling hours making sure the car remains stock in appearance to just start hacking now. Now that I have a spare motor I will take a look into fitting the EFI, but not holding my breath..
Larry Embrey

what about a sheet metal intake or the spider intake which looks like a regular carb intake with a little spout that goes off to the right.
jj

Like has been said anyting is possible if the determination and skills are there. Just a matter of it being done.
Larry Embrey

Use the coil packs and distributor from an explorer 302 engine. That may take care of at least on of your clearance issues.
jj

Then your stuck with explorer components, which can cause clearance issues with the crank to steering rack, believe me I just went through that problem with this new block and explorer water pump install.

Not all ECU's can use the DIS modules, though I beleive Ford now makes a unit to let them, but another $300+, and I have yet to see it used with a EEC-IV computer (87-93 mustangs widely accepted as most adaptable)

Jim, has gone an intersting route with his car. HE has 96+ mustang EFI (coil packs and all from a 4.6L modular motor) graphted to his 215. He is using an aftermarket tuner to get it running properly. THat may yet be the best all around option asie from the Holley and Edelbrock set-ups. The Aftermarket kits would probably be a touch easier for most people, but the route Jim has taken will allow a hair more tuning as he also can complete control of his spark timing and curves. BUT the aftermarket units will drop onto any Carb intake AND are usually shorter than a carb. I bought one and looked at them before I got buyers remorse and returned it, they are very trick!!

There are ALWAYS ways to make something work, just comes down to time, $$, and skills.. Not in any particular order..
Larry Embrey

The TBI from a GM will work on any engine, it's very adaptable.
Also the coil pack from GM is easier to hook-up etc.
But if you want the best look at this set up

www.wolfems.com ECU for the serious enthusiast.
Bill Guzman

Slight correction here, I used first a '93-'94 ECU from a Crown Vic (4.6L) then a '95 ECU from a SN-95 Mustang GT and both are EEC-IV and both drive the EDIS just fine. They are also almost totally interchangeable in terms of wiring.

I really believe that any of the EEC-IV units with the cast aluminum cases will drive the EDIS, and it is entirely likely that the earlier ones with the stamped tin cases will too. The ONLY signal that the EDIS gets from the ECU is a timing delay signal called SAW or Spark Angle Word, but the earlier units with the electronic distributor also have a timing signal and I am pretty sure it uses the same format so there shouldn't be any reason you couldn't wire it up and have it work. There's nothing magical about the EDIS, it just has pickups, coil packs, and it's own control module, and it'll even work without the SAW, just not the best that way.

I understand the later EEC-V has the EDIS module in the ECU. It has a BUNCH more pins to wire.

Jim
Jim Blackwood

OH, my bad Jim, I thought you were using a 4.6L EEC-V ECU Well then Jim has solved the issue for us!! heh

I will have to look into that now.

I was just struck squarely in the face with the classic MOSS leaf spring screw up. I bought springs a number of montyh back, just now getting to installing them. While putting in I notice a stocker on one of them with a part number and the 66-75 GT rear spring listed on it, DAMN!!! no wonder thay have a big arch to them! Worst part is I had to cut the passenger spring out with a saws-all becuase the botl had siexed to the sleeve in the front eye bushing and it would not release.. so that spring is toast. but I have a OLD set of leafs from my parts car.. just hope these GT ones will relax.. I will run with an extra 100+lbs in the trunk for a while, see what happens..
Larry Embrey

Actually I think all you need is the distributor piece from the explorer then you can use aftermarket coil packs. So that that should not limit your use of aftermarket items on the 302. Check out some of the mustang site and post about it if you think the efi distributor is to high. I am sure someone on one of those sites has tried the above-mentioned setup.
Painless wiring sells a Ford EFI wiring system that only has the parts you need so you should not have to worry about the ford security systems build into the ignition (not sure just a guess).
jj

It is NOT just the disctrib piece fro the explorer, in fact that piece is almost useless as it only tell s the ECU where #1 is. It is the crank wheel on the balancer and the matching sensor that are the key.

After cutting the rack off my crossmember and dropping it, then dropping my engine abouth 1/2" the EFI distributor will JUST fit, it will be touching the hood though, so after a few hundred miles you are looking at wearing through the boots on them and geting arching or the spark. BUT electronics wise, Jim's route will work great. Trick now will be getting the intakes under the hood.
Larry Embrey

Just one more reason to attend British V8 2003. We will have a complete Ford 302 engine/T5 transmission on display, Steve Carrick's MGB/Ford 302 will be there, and we will have a 302 Tech session. We will also have a modified CB MGB crossmember, modified to accept the 302, on display, which will be given away as a door prize Saturday.

If you have any interest at all in the 302, come on by and ask questions. There will be several folks particpating in the tech session, all of whom have installed, or are installing, a 302 into either an MGB or a TR6. All you guys that know Dale Spooner need to be hammering on him to bring his MGB/Ford (and his expertise) down. Pete Mantell will be there to report on his progress, and Les Schocky will be there with his 351 Ford powered TR6. Bring your tape measure, your camera, and your questions, and take home a lot of good info!
Dan Masters

E. Walter Johnson asked on 20th of March, almost a month ago:
"What is the average time and money do you have into your ford V8 conversion MG?"

Will someone answer this please? I know its different for each and every project and persons experience, but no one has asswered this here.
BMC Brian McCullough

My total for the conversion is around $4500. I kept stock rear end and did all of the work myself including headers. IH am not a machinist nor ever worked on a car before, so it CAN be done) If I had just bought a running 5.0 and then swapped heads and intake I would have been WAY less. Case in point I just bought a wrecked but running 5.0 mustang (for my fairmont project) for $385 delivered to my driveway via tow truck. Now for extras.. $1000 for alum heads (can find cheaper), sell the EFI set-up and go carb, would be about a wash. engine and tranny are there. shorten DS $100-200 depending on what done. Make my own headers and exh again another $200ish. So total is ~$1800. THEN comes the fun part, you get a mustang to part out and COULD end up makign money depending on interior quality, and exterior damage.

This fairmont project started as a $100 running fairmont, I bought the mustang, <$500 and I had what needed for a 13second 4dr family car. now I am selling the 5.0 and going up to a 351 and MAKING $50 on the deal, plus keeping the 5.0 electrics and tranny for the fairmont. Then I just locked in a deal to sellt he fairmont dash for $150, and will be installing the mustangs dash, so I got paid $50 to get the fairmont. It's all about the buy/sell factor..
Larry Embrey

Sounds like the Ford movement is doing just fine without me!Besides if the judge in my divorce found out that I did something fun she would probably assess me some sort of penalty.So once again I'm afraid I have to miss this one too.Maybe by next year I won't have to repeat that statement.The V8 meets definitely score very high on the fun-o-meter.To answer the question of how much my conversion cost it also scores very high on the moneypit-o-meter.By the time I had a reliable non-overheating car that I could drive anywhere with out constantly watching the gauges I'd say I spent $8,000.This would include things like wheels and tires,shock conversion,alum rad,complete fresh motor with alum heads,intake,carb,electronic dist,8" dif, stainless dual exhaust,coat headers, louver the hood and about a thousand etc's.Sticking with a theme here I'd say it scores EXTREMELY high on the bang-for-the-buckometer....
Dale

Dale who?

:)
Carl

Good to see you pop your head up for a bit Dale, sorry to hear about your situation, I hope it all works out for the best.

Maybe ONE of these day I will make it to a meet and we will be able to meet.
Larry Embrey

So what is the cheapest anyone has done the Ford 302 conversion?
Ken

I am $4500 total car and conversion. I could have done cheaper, probably could have shaved maybe another $1000 with really good purchase on the engine as a running unit rather than piecing together and having a shop do full rebuild and assembly on the short block. Also not buying alum heads.. right there is 900-1200...

GET A COMPLETE MOTOR, or better yet find a wrecked car with 5.0 in it, then make soem $$ back parting out the car...
Larry Embrey

Word yo. How much you think a drag MG would cost to build?
D. B. Smith

again, depends on how serious you plan to run and what classes..

To make a serious car your looking $$$ adding lots of bracing to chassis, plus a full LEGAL roll cage internal. tubbing the rear end which means making a new rear framework. Flared wheel wells in the rear, designing a new rear suspen, swhich with custome frame could be simpler than normal on a MG. Then you have to decide engine.

You can tell I have though about it a bit heh I still am debating a MG as my goof around track car. making a sun 12sec car not be THAT hard due to weight.. HOOKING UP off the line will be the key..

I saw a MEAN looking MGB on a trailer on Sunday, HAD to be a drag car, all bulged wells, 5"+ cowl on the hood, big rollbar. I wish I had had time to turn around and flag the guy down!! I will havet o keep eyes open for him.. He was only a couple miles from the house too...
Larry Embrey

This thread was discussed between 20/03/2003 and 02/05/2003

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