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MG MGB Technical - Balancing bolt-on wheels

Maybe someone has already fought this battle and I can learn from your experience....

I realize that Rostyles are designed to be balanced lug-centric. The hub ID is there to provide clearance for the hub and little else. The weight of the car is supported by the lugs. I, however, have some older Minator (real ones made in UK) 14" alloys. In a perfect world I would have the new tires I plan to install balanced lug-centric, just like the Rostyles.

The problem is that few tire dealers in my area even know what I'm talking about when I ask about lug-centric balancing and the ones that do either use some sort of clamping scheme to approximate it or have the adapters but can't remember exactly what they did with them. Certainly either way those who claim they can do it want to charge extra for this service.

The question is: Is it possible that the Minators (or any alloy wheel for that matter) are machined precisely enough that normal hub-centric balancing would be effective in the MGB, lug-centric application; assuming of course that the hub ID will mate up properly to the balancer?

Any information would be appreciated.

Greg Oakes
G Oakes

Greg,
I have found that you have to try a few different places to find a machine that "accidentally" works with lug-centric wheels. Insist on being present when they do the balancing and watch the lower part of the rim where it sticks out from under the protective cover, looking for runout. If you see more wobble that you do when it is on the car, it will NOT end up balanced. I have done well with Just Tires and with Discount Tires. Talk to the manager, explain that it is for an old MG and make it a point of pride for him to take the extra effort to make them right.
David "if the weights are more than 2 inches long, it is not balanced" Lieb
David Lieb

Greg. I think you are making this overly complicated.

"The question is: Is it possible that the Minators (or any alloy wheel for that matter) are machined precisely enough that normal hub-centric balancing would be effective in the MGB, lug-centric application; assuming of course that the hub ID will mate up properly to the balancer? "

My Minators balanced up just fine at the local tire shop. So did a friend's when he had new tires installed and balanced. Several people, using other brands of aluminum alloy wheels have had no problems having their tires balanced properly.

The problem seems to lie in the Rubbery Owens wheels which were not designed to be balanced on the machines currently in use. Replace the Rostyle wheels with modern wheels and you do away with that problem. Plus, you will not have thirty year old wheels known for having a tendency to go out of round and be easily deformed.

That being said, I still have Rostyles on one of my cars and my daughter's car. The last several times that we have had tires installed and the tires and wheels balanced they came out quite well. But, we give that shop a lot of business, have dealt with them for almost 20 years, and they take some pride in the quality of their work. It might be that an interested, competent balance machine operator is more important than the mounting system if the Rostyle wheels are in good shape.

Les
Les Bengtson

I have never had any problems balancing either Minators, V8 wheels or RoStyles using the standard cone mounts.

For perfect balance go and find a place that has "on car" balancing machines where the wheel is spun up on the axle.
Chris at Octarine Services

Modern wheels are designed to be mounted by the centre hole, MGB era wheels aren't. I've had a tyre place show be horrendous imbalance with a Rostyle mounted with the centre hole, which vanished (much to the tyre fitters surprise) when mounted using the stud adapter that I asked them to use in the first place. Having said that when I first fitted wire wheels and had the tyres changed over I didn't have any balancing done as I didn't want to spoil the wheels, and I've never had any balance problems. Modern balance machines can't mount centre-lock wheels at all as they must be held on the internal surface on the back of the wheel and the external surface on the front, but the cones available can't do that. The only place I have come across is the MGOC at Wavesey who have their own machine, they told me it's because they couldn't find anyone near them who could do it properly. But on the V8 ever since the first change of tyres in my ownership despite repeated rebalancing using the stud adapter I have always had problems. I'd dearly love to get them balanced on-car, if someone could tell me who still does it!
Paul Hunt

Greg, the Minators should balance fine on a standard machine. Most alloy wheels are precision machined and the inner section of the hub is true to the lug holes so can be used to locate the wheel on the balancer. The problem with the Rostyles was that because of the design of the stamping there was no inner "ring" at the rear center of the wheel and the machine had no true surface to register on.
Bill Young

Re: "...using the stud adapter that I asked them to use in the first place..." (Paul Hunt)

I've had the same problem. I used one shop because they had great luck balancing my Rostyles, but on the last go around they failed three times and decided the wheels were out of round. (Mounted on the car they're perfectly round, but the manager refused to acknowledge the fact. I don't shop there anymore.)

I looked for an adapter plate online, but only found a commercial model that serviced various bolt patterns and cost almost 300 USD. Does anyone know of a source to purchase an adapter plate for a reasonable price? I've considered having one made, but I suspect having a custom item fabricated will cost more than I'd want to pay.
Matt Kulka

Paul & Bill - my shop balances RoStyles without a rear cone - i.e. against the flat surface of the machine spindle and with a small cone on the front in the central hole.

Matt - How about machining an old front hub to fit the machine? This is what I have done for balancing wire wheels.
Chris at Octarine Services

In interesting thought about machining an old hub for wire wheels, Chris. Although the place I go to has the correct cone to mate with the back of the wheel, it is the opposite cone on the front of the wheel that is the problem. I've pondered a couple of times the possibilities of machining an old *spinner* to cope with that, with their standard fitment on the outside of that.
Paul Hunt

Chris, Not a bad idea at all, thank you.
Matt Kulka

Thanking everyone for your comments. If I had to draw conclusions I would say its probably OK to balance MGB alloy wheels either hub-centric or lug-centric. On Rostyles it really depends upon the skill and experience of the operator. I think at most US tire dealers balancing Rostyles hub-centric would be a big mistake.

Also, and based on my own experience, I've concluded that as time progresses it is going to become increasingly harder to fine anyone capable of lug-centric balancing. Hopefully someone will come up with a creative solution to this.

On a related note this very same discussion is a big topic on the Toyota Tundra BBS's. It seems this particular model was designed lug-centric. What makes it worse is that the hub bore is so large that even alloy wheels can not be balanced hub-centric. They won't fit on the machines. Apparently Toyota dealers know this and have adapters but not all tire dealers do. Anyway lug-centric balancing is not just for 30 year old vehicles.

I guess I'm just glad I don't have wire wheels.


Greg Oakes
G Oakes


Most motor repair shops(at least here in OZ) used to have a dynamic balance machine that could balance the wheel in place on the vehicle.
They are great as they balance the whole assembly. The wheel must be fitted to a non drive axle of course. I had one in my shop but it went with the business when I retired. I know they are still available new as I have seen them in tool catalogs. They are used more by repair shops than tire services. Denis
Denis4

Paul,

Been there, tried that! The machined spinner doesn't stay true - even though in theory it should - the problem is that the contact area for the outer cone is outside of the contact area between the spinner and the wheel so they wobble out of alignment.

The only way to do it would be to make up a threaded collar to screw into the spinner and then machine a bore through collar and spinner which was a tight fit on the machine spindle. Using an old hub and just machining thru the spinner to the diameter of the threads means you can use it on any machine.
Chris at Octarine Services

To balance my wire wheels, I used a hub adaptor from a Triumph, and had a machine shop drill a perfectly centered hole in an old spinner. I mounted this to the wheel, back coned the assembly on a standard tire balancer, and got by with a static balance. I did not want to put weights on the front if possible! Worked like a charm!
E. Kafant

This thread was discussed between 15/04/2009 and 18/04/2009

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