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MG MGB Technical - Broken spokes,

I have parked my car up now for the winter,and have been checking it over, and found 2 broken spokes on one of the front wheels, (these wheels are only 4 years old) and have done only 20,000 miles, they had broken inside the hub, the formed end had broken off,which i only found when i had the wheel on the bench cleaning it,with the wheel on the car everything looked in order, so tapping your wheel spokes every now and then is a good idea, A.T
andy tilney

Andy. It would be interesting to know what brand of wheels you found this problem with since there are a couple of different factories making wire wheels. It would, also, be interesting to note whether the broken spoke(s) have put the wheel out of tolerance for roundness.

One common cause of broken spokes used to be one which was overly tight compared to the others surrounding it. Thus, it was under greater stress to begin with and took greater stress when the wheel was turned. It would be interesting to know if this was a front wheel, with has greater turning stresses imposed upon it when steering, or a back wheel.

Is there any form of date code on the wheel as to when it was made? As more products are being made in China, and more Chinese steel is being sold on the world market, we are seeing an increasing failure rate among products which used to last many years before requiring replacement. This may be an example of that.

Les
Les Bengtson

Les, this wheel was on the front when i found the fault, but as i swop them round every service,it has been round a few times, these wheels were made in India, and i bought them from the MGOC in britain, I dont know if this put the wheel out of tolerance, with the broken spokes, but i put a clock on it after i renewed the spokes, and it ran very true,i will not be using it again untill March/April of next year, so i will have to wait to see how it drives, A.T
andy tilney

I was advised by a friend who repairs wire wheels to have my new wheels checked and retrued after the first 5,000 miles. I did this with my MGC chrome wire wheels on my MGB and I have had no problems.

Many people cannot be bothered removing the tyres etc to have this done however I think it is worthwhile.

My wheels were from MWS in the UK and were also made in India.
Ian Buckley

My Dunlop India chrome wires probably did five ot six years and 15-20k before breaking any spokes. Then it was an occasional one some years, gradually increasing until a couple of years ago I found eight with three on one wheel after a trip of a few hundred miles. Opinion was that it is the chroming process that makes them brittle and stainless don't suffer fom it, so I had one wheel respoked with stainless as an experiment, and that broke its first spoke after just a couple of years!

It was getting to be a pain and an expense to take the wheel to a tyre place to take the tyre off, then drive to the wheel place, then back to the tyre place, so I investigated replacing them myself. Fortunately it has always been the ones in the wheel rim that break so it is just a matter of breaking the tyre bead for access, not complete removal. You have to remove a companion spoke in order to get the new one in, but using the weight of the V8 to break the bead it only takes me 20 mins or so to do the job. The ironic thing is that since I have been doing them myself the breakage rate has dropped from eight in one year to one a year since. Full story at http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/wn_wheelsframe.htm and click on 'wire wheels'.

Never had them retrued, I tighten up the new and companion spokes until they ping like the others and turn them on an axle to check for wobble and eccentricity but have never found either.
P Hunt

Andy and Ian. Both of you seem to be using the currently manufactured Dunlop wire wheels, now made in India. Paul Hunt's confirmation that the current Dunlop wheels break spokes provides the third instance which makes Andy's original report, now, statistically significant. (You have to have a minimum of three samples for it to be of statistical significance.)

It would be of interest to hear from people who have purchased the Dayton wire wheels to see if they have had similar problems with broken spokes. But, one this is clear from this thread:

Andy. You have done a fine job by posting this thread and you have demonstrated that there is a significant problem (at least statistically) with broken spokes on the Dunlop wire wheels. Everyone should do as you have suggested and check the condition of their wheels on, at least, an annual basis. I would suggest that it also be done before and during any long trips.

Good job, all. Thank you for taking the time to mention this. It could, especially with Paul's information of broken multiple spokes on one wheel, same someone's life.

Les
Les Bengtson

I have chrome Daytons and after 2 years I had 2 spokes fail on the left rear wheel. They use stainless spokes, so I was suprised at the failure. I had been using a set of India made Dunlops, also chrome, but had numerous spoke failures with theese. Since I have a lot of experience working with wire wheels as a motorcycle mechanic, replacing the spokes was a minor anoyance. RAY
rjm RAY

Morning all,

Does anyone have a good address for buying new spokes? All the places I've found seem to charge crazy prices, a bit like buying screws from DIY stores!

Thanks.

David
D Balkwill

Interesting someone else started getting broken stainless after just a couple of years

I get mine from Central Wheel Components in Coleshill near Birmingham - http://www.central-wheel.co.uk/spokes/spokes.html However they don't do car wheel rebuilding so I had to take along a good spoke for them to use as a pattern, I got 10 for £1.50 each. They don't do chrome but stainless is fine for me, although I do have to spend a couple of minutes polishing them with Solvol Autosol before fitting.

You might be better with Ray Phillips and Son 0121 544 9060 as they do rebuild car wheels and so know the correct type, and do both chrome and polished stainless. I don't know the price of supplied spokes as I've only used them to replace them.
P Hunt

David, you are right about crazy prices, i bought 2 from Moss in Bradford, and with P&P they cost me £16.00, which for 2 spokes i thought was to much, A.T
andy tilney

I am so glad I swapped over my wire wheels and hubs for bolts ons :)

Last time I went to a tyre balancing place the guy looked at me in horror when I said it was for a MGB until I assured him it wasn't one with wire wheels!
Simon Jansen

Simon. Like you, I changed out the wire wheels on my 68GT and the older daughter's 77B as soon as I could. My dislike of wire wheels stems from the time I was on temporary duty in Alabama for three months while residing in Germany. Bought an MGA from a friend in Texas and he dropped it off with my sister in Dallas so that I could visit with her and drive the car back. Great trip and there were no problems until I went to get off the interstate. As I was exiting, the car lurched to the right. Pulled over to the side of the road and found a number of broken spokes on the right, rear wheel. When I jacked the car up to change out the wheel, I found that I could move the tire inwards and outwards for several inches. Glad that I did not have to drive any further than I did. Who knows what might have happened.

This is why I mention that Andy's original post, and the contributions of the others who have mentioned their own problems with broken spokes, may well save someone's life. Now, some 30+ years after the incident with the MGA, I am not sure that my vision, reflexes, and strength would be sufficient to handle the situation I found myself in. Bolt on wheels, and a torque wrench, are my friends.

Les
Les Bengtson

Les, I had wires on my first MG, a GT. I never even considers the safety implications of them to tell the truth. I twas always more a concern that when something did go wrong it was going to be expensive to fix. I guess physical cost is a concern too though!

When I first got my roadster it was one wires which I swapped with someone who wanted those while I wanted bolt ons. He threw in some other things into the deal like a nice steel dash and some other parts. Was a good swap for me!
Simon Jansen

"with P&P they cost me £16.00"

I'll send you two for half that!
P Hunt

Used to be a guy in Leeds called "The Spokesman"-Tony Margel 0113 2680681 10 Bencliffe Lane LS17 6QF -but that was 2003
Michael Beswick

Never ever a broken spoke on painted wire wheels. I still have 2 factory OEs on my car, the rest are Indian Dunlops. I have always been impressed with this as our roads in Buckinghamshire are getting to the point where those 4x4s the Mums all drive make sense. I have heard of chome w/w spokes breaking and this was a known problem back in the 60s. The factory finish of semi matte grey on painted wheels is pretty depressing so I spray mine,silver, smooth hammerite looks good and lasts very well. I do ensure they are well greased inside the hub to avoid stress concentration in corrosion pits.
Stan Best

I have Dayton 70 spoke chromes on my GT. 2 years and 4 thousand miles and no problems (and checking spokes at least twice a year is part of my preventative maintenance).

If your interested in covering the postage, I do have some of the short spokes in chrome that I picked up some years back.
BEC Cunha

I have never broken a spoke in the 40 years I have had the car, however for the last 7 years it has been on centrelock minilites. (I became too lazy to clean the chrome)

25 years ago I regularly used the car in club competition on standard OE wheels. The MWS Indian 72 spoke set I referred to in an earlier post were never used in competition, but did cope with the V8 without a problem.

It is a pity some people dismiss wire wheels when really twice yearly removal and checking are all that is needed if they are sound to start with.

My car was approved as a V8 here, by the government vehicle regulatory authority and their engineers with chrome wire wheels.
Ian Buckley

Must be the way I drive it then, although 2 years and 4k miles is nothing. I'm glad I don't have a Bugatti Type 59 (well, not really) as they had nothing more than thickish piano wire for spokes. They took the weight of the car and the sideways stresses, a large cog taking the drive and braking forces http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/images/bug98_6.jpg
P Hunt

With my Daytons, I had problems with only 1 of the 4 wheels. That was a single incident and it hasn't repeated itself. RAY
rjm RAY

I've been a bit slow replying, but thanks for the addresses, Paul and Michael, and for your offer of some spokes, BEC. My wheels are 15 inch and painted, so yours aren't for me.

I don't have any broken spokes, but I do have some spare wheels which need trueing, but have the spokes and nipples firmly rusted together, so I know I'll have to cut some to do the job.

At £1.50 a spoke, it's just not worth doing this, so I'll just keep them as spares in case.
D Balkwill

Brings up an interesting question. Wonder if you can purchase just parts from one of the current manufacturers?

Would be interested in getting hubs and respoking the original set I have.
BEC Cunha

Bruce, good luck. RAY
rjm RAY

This thread was discussed between 05/12/2009 and 17/12/2009

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