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MG MGB Technical - Choke cable issue

So having a small issue with choke cable took off the air filters so I could tune up the carbs but now I cant get the car to start from cold as the choke cable doesnt seem to engage. The handle on dash will pull out but nothing happens on the cable end cant seem to work out why this is happening worked fine before .so from the picture this is the cable in the engine bay the cable sits flush under the bulk head in the car yet pulling the handle does not seem to move the cable .any theories or solutions thanks for looking regards Paul


PW Creswell

Paul,
two things come to my mind, one the choke cable has broke at the knob end or two you've got the cable adjustment wrong at carbs end (there also seems to be a fair bit of slack on the cable).

Get someone to slowly pull the cable out as you watch carbs end for cable and linkage movement, also the jets don't start to lower until after the point of fast idle but should then move down.

For one see - 160 MG Choke Cable Repair - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQIRaHBfps8

For two see -

http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/choke.htm#control

and

http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/choke.htm#adjust

And thirdly, just for me, if you're using a phone to take the photo turn the phone horizontally to take the photo.


Nigel Atkins

ETA: I meant to put, are you sure you've got the lever on the shaft nut fully tightened to stop the lever rotating on the shaft, and have you got the lever at the right position on the linkage shaft.


Nigel Atkins

I gather if it is broke at handle it might be inside like the outer cover is still attached and only the metal part is broke as if was broke completely then the cable would simply either come out of the dash end or the engine bay end
PW Creswell

I will check nut is fully tighten tomorrow.and report back

PW Creswell

Peter,
it not just the nut but the position of the lever too perhaps.

The cable might be broke and also the stands twisted inside which prevent the handle end pulling out that broken end of the cable unless you pull hard enough to get passed this - but pulling too hard might break an unbroken cable connection. This is why you need two people, one at handle end and other at carb end, or a camera and screen for one person to pull the handle and see what happens at the carbs, or record/video it and watch on playback.

The photo of your set up looks a bit odd, and the inner cable looks a bit twisted and slack and outer cable a bit slack and astray but if the other bits are aligned the cable should work once straightened.

Are your return springs on correctly?
Nigel Atkins

The return springs as I haven't touched them myself couldn't say yes or no on that. Would assume that they would be as car was running ok until the ignition went and had to replace the electronic ignition
PW Creswell

If the cable had broken(!) the handle and the remains of the cable would pull right out.

Slacken the clamp that connects the cable inner to the finger on the air filter mounting bracket and you should be able to pull the inner up and cause the outer to lift the choke interconnection lever, which is what applies fast-idle and enrichment. That cable and lever has to be pulled up quite a bit before it is secured or it won't do anything useful at the carbs when the control is pulled.

With the dash control pulled about 1/4" for fast-idle pull the inner through the clamp so the cable outer lifts the choke lever to move the carb choke components to the position in the first picture. I.e. 'A' is part-way round the cam and just before 'B' starts to go down. Tighten the clamp on the cable inner.

With the dash control fully pulled it should look like the second picture, i.e. cam 'A' all the way round and 'B' fully down.

With the choke control pushed fully home cam 'A' should be all the way up and 'B' the same as in the first picture.






paulh4

Paul,
I've just thought, are you the chap with the PO wiring issues from a while back, red BGT?
Nigel Atkins

Not I.
paulh4

No not you the PO Paul. 😀

I don't like the look or sound of things on this car, not serious but needs sorting I think. I know you don't like electronic ignitions but if they are installed correctly they're very reliable.

The inner cable if broken usually will pull out by handle but there can be other brakes and jams and it depends on how hard you pull then.

If this Paul is the red BGT owner then he's new to classics so might think it's running ok when it is but may not be running well or as well as it could or should.

Without the 'Vehicle profile' to view I don't remember too many owners names I need the photos of the cars as a reminder.

The red BGT looked like it might have a few issues to bring up and it was something to do with PO wiring last time. I sent a few emails but I don't keep records of such or addresses.

Nigel Atkins

Oh, I see the problem I called Paul(W) Peter, sorry PaulW, and sorry PaulH for causing confusion - confirms how little I remember (I think I had that robbing Peter to pay Paul in my head for some now very obscure reason).
Nigel Atkins

Yes Nigel iam the guy with the red MG GT and I did or rather do have issues with wiring but in old cars no telling who or what was done before you bought it .I have had the car running but never as good as it should be but now think this was down to coil and electronic ignition these have now been replaced car was started last sunday just needed tuned up problem now is car wont restart and it's down to choke not operating properly guess we have all been there at one time if the cable is indeed broken how do you go about taking it out and replacing the cable
PW Creswell

Hi Paul,
I didn't catch on it might be your car at first. As we've corresponded before I'll be quite direct which some viewers might think is being rude but they're not coming in at the start.

The general *feel* in the photo suddenly switched my mind on to the same feel to your previous photos (just remembered now wiper motor drive, alarm) the work in those looked iffy, same here. Take nothing as being correct question all you see.

I think you know I've very little concern for shiny engine bays but they're usually better for being tidy (well as much tidy as a B engine bay ever was, can be).

You know if the engine is running OK but unless you've now driven other good running example(s) of MGBs then you won't know if yours is running as well as it could or should.

IIRC Mike offered to call by to offer advice/help, I'd snatch his arms off as an experienced driver/user (rather than just owner) he'll probably spot discrepancies and issues or how to prevent both that you might not see (yet).

I was concerned when I saw you put the ignition went and you had to replace the electronic ignition as generally now IF (capital letter) they are installed correctly they're very reliable now - that might have been another trigger to remind me of your car.

The coil is another item that obviously can go but usually lasts decades so I wonder if it's more likely the wiring to them than the actual units or other possibilities of the issues. If they are now replaced so be it and it they gave improvement then that's good.

You can put up two photos per post so take advantage of that as more angles and wider views can often help.

Perhaps I'm on a wrong track and you're already well on your way to having it running well but the good weather is on its way and time to be driving the car rather than repairing or servicing it.#

Nigel Atkins

Sorry PaulW,
just realised I didn't put, I also thought somewhere along the line I recognised the surname but with my memory I wasn't sure.
Nigel Atkins

It was mike who correctly found out the electronic ignition was faulty he had one with him and he swapped them over.He came over on Thursday and discovered coil was on it's way out I got a replacement accuspark one and replaced this on Saturday but still no spark so Mike the legend came back on Sunday. And having went over the ignition system worked out it was the accuspark electronic ignition was also at fault .Having got the car to start Mike set about getting it to run roughly but did add that it would need a bit more fiddling to get it running better.However I can not get the car to restart and therefore cant tune it I admit I'm pretty new to old or classic cars but I did have a Triumph spitfire which I myself tuned and got it working rather well for a novice. Then I sold it and two or three days later the MG broke down sods law lol .
PW Creswell

We need Mike here under an intense spotlight to find out why the ignition and coil failed, the video and audio will not be running at the time! 😁

No doubt the electronic ignitions can go wrong but usually now with the igniters they tend to be reliable or at least fail quickly after fitting, for the price the quality control can't be 100%.

If you got the Spitfire tuned and running well then the same principles apply to the B. Obviously you can't successfully tune until the servicing and maintenance has been fully completed. Then of course this is just the least important component of the engine and carb fiddling the rest of the car's components are more important.

Yes, rooky mistake, to sell the car you'd got running well and keeping the other but very wise not to burden yourself with two overpriced old British made cars.

It might be that it was only at point of photo but good practice would be, as much as possible and practical, to close off the carb open apertures and screw caps caps down, to prevent any crud/debris/articles getting inside.

The tuning a setting up of the carbs and linkages can be done without but it's easier to buy (or borrow) and use the correct tools, those small spanners that fit the jet nuts, and for the nuts on screws BA spanners and sockets or those in the tuning kits.

Sorting the choke cable and choke settings at linkage will help with starting and keeping it running until the engine warms so that a good place to start now. Good luck.
Nigel Atkins

Surely the coil and ignition issue is history, and the choke seems to be the problem now.

PW: Have you seen my post of 14 May 2021 at 09:13:09?
paulh4

PaulH,
I'm surprised at you, surely the source of the problem needs to be known rather than just replacing parts. 😁

I'm pulling your leg, hopefully the electronic ignition and coil are history and if it was one or other of them, or both, that were faulty within themselves, or as a pair, I'd not worry about it but this car has a history of wiring concerns so obviously if there was an underlining issue that'd also need sorting. Sod's Law it's the things you leave or ignore that come back to bite your bottom.

If Mike replaced both and said no more that might be the end of it.

Ignitors are very reliable now (in general) so was it a unit that went bad or the way it was installed, or route used in which case there'd be potential for future problems with the replacement, and what about the coil.

I like to get as much sorted at the start so there's more time for driving rather than future fiddling-about (I usually put farting about but I'm changing terminology for the more gentile B section).

As this is carb related I think I should step back and just be a viewer as PaulW sounds better at tuning them than me (easier when not dealing with new parts from the likes of SU and other parts suppliers).

I would go off in a huff but I can't remember where I parked it. I'm history here. 😁
Nigel Atkins

Ok got car started so far so good cable must have been jammed under or behind dash anyway that's sorted I think now only thing is to get car running a bit better did try and upload video but even a few seconds is too big a file.can hear idle going up then dropping back down.like constantly so need timming and carbs adjusted oil pressure is sitting at about 45 so not sure if that is good or bad rev counter isnt working for some reason was now it's not again down to wiring 🤔but at least car is now started so not all bad
PW Creswell

For video, it won't go on here but if you can put it up elsewhere and put a hyperlink to it here others can listen to it.

Oil pressure, if the needle went up from zero and is steady (or fairly) at whatever idle you have don't worry about the number as you've no idea how accurate the gauge is (or not) - what's it say in your Driver's Handbook, sounds about right to start with. No doubt you've already done a hot engine oil and filter change to get the old oil and muck out that the PO left.

Rev counter, give the glass a sharp tap with a bare finger knuckle. If that don't work it could be something to do with PO, age, wear/tear, use/abuse, of tach or anything to do with PO wiring -




. . . or coil and electronic igniter needing changing. 🤣

Nigel Atkins

https://youtube.com/shorts/YJOtLVbPYPg?feature=share
PW Creswell

Hopefully the link works let me know what you guys think on how car spins if link does work will upload a longer video tomorrow
PW Creswell

https://youtu.be/x47YMqhQApk
PW Creswell

Ooooowh!

Sounds like your tachometer isn't working! 🤣

(sorry I'm in one of those moods)

At least the YouTube link is working.

See what those that know more think, I think as often happens you might be starting at the wrong end with the carb tuning (last in line with engine set up/tuning, and engine tuning last in line on car set up).
Nigel Atkins

Engines are notoriously difficult to diagnose using sound over the internet, too many variables modifying the signal. Does seem to be rough idle and maybe an intermittent miss.

45 for a cold idle would be low so you need to say whether it was up to temp or not.

Could do with knowing the year. HS carbs and carb crankcase ventilation indicates Oct 68 to Nov 73 but that covers a change in tach type. Seems to have manifold vacuum for the distributor but that wasn't used until rubber bumpers which was after HIF carbs came in. Still shows the 'up and under' choke cable which was used until rubber bumpers.

What does the tach have printed on the dial - RVI or RVC? I suspect the latter.
paulh4

IF I remember correctly it's a 1973 but like with most (almost all) I get the impression it might be a bit of a bitsa plus there was at least wiring knitting by the PO so things like tachometer could be a Jonny Cash, but I might be wrong, I've only seen that video and a few photos in previous thread(s).

Unless PaulW had tools sitting on the bare wing I thought the engine sounded loud and running at quite an idle and assumed (always dangerous) that the car had just been started from cold or reasonably so.

But PaulW will know more than my iffy memory.

Whilst the sound is always (very) difficult the video gives a general image that has allowed some general info to be picked up and now some hi-res, zoomed-in photos of areas could be requested if needed.

I'm even smarter than I look, and modest too.
Nigel Atkins

https://youtu.be/ttsGsPOrDSA
PW Creswell

The above link is of the engine with choke on about half way
PW Creswell

https://youtu.be/F0fqJ7WiRJU


Choke off metal clanking sound is the fan it has a bit of play and think either it needs new bolts or it needs to be taken off and reattach.
PW Creswell

Yes I can see a couple of issues straight off, shiny door tread plates (with MG logo of course) and an 80s radio cassette!

Being a bit more serious I often notice small things and miss the glaringly obvious.

Oil pressure showing at 62.58 is fine for now at warming, also shows the temp gauge is moving at least.

A few notes that will drive PaulH to distraction -

you're missing the foam seal that goes between the rad and its diagram, useful in summer and the rubber type seal has a cable-tie on it perhaps suggesting it's the wrong type of not held correctly

HT lead to No.3 wants untangling

assume you're checking/cleaning/filler washer bottle as the lid is off

fuel gauge shows low(?) so low on fuel, or gauge inaccurate, you don't want to run out of fuel when fault-finding, testing or tuning.

To me the fast idle on choke sounds fast/high but perhaps you could have pushed the choke knob back in a bit more.

I'm not convinced it's just the fan, perhaps it has wrong bolt(s) but it's doing the engine no favours at all as it is. Remove it and run for test with it removed, it's not needed until the engine has fully warmed. Before refitting check the bolts are correct length.

Good point to end on, a blind and a deaf man would both be pleased to see the engine running.

Nigel Atkins

My what sharp little eyes you have I barely noticed the fuel gauge in video anyway the fuel isnt working lol another thing to sort out lots of little jobs but overall a good car being its 50 years old and let's honest once we get to 50 things start going wrong lol .cause someone was asking about age of car its was built in june 71 but not registered till july 72 so was sitting about for awhile .foam seal ? Another thing to buy like most cars always find little things missing as after taking off air filters discovered missing inner seals ,and out grommets for bolts and the rubber gasket that goes between the outer boxes all very expensive pieces I mean 70p for a grommet and £1.29 for a gasket no wonder the guy didnt replace lol .
PW Creswell

To see the fuel gauge I had to run at quarter speed and pause and then it took me two attempts, at that speed the sound is, er, interesting/torture.

I wish I could remember being 50, could remember what year your car was.

Bodgers rarely do research or prepare, don't make the same mistake, plenty of info on parts on-line, or electronic records or even paper printed catalogues. Even then you can discover there are parts you need that you didn't expect (or broke), and the parts quality of replacement parts of before and now.

The foam seal you could probably make up yourself depending what you have available to you, or how much Blue Peter you saw.

You've had the car long enough now you should have serviced it, the car not just the engine, but if you've not fully serviced the engine then you can only set up the carbs rather than tune them up.

Just remembered a very important thing - for videos and photos hold the phone side on in landscape (horizontally, widescreen) you'll get more image for your money.

I can't wait to hear if Kraftwerk are still on crank on the next vid with the fan removed played at quarter speed, be ideal on a metal tape compact cassette played on your car stereo.
Nigel Atkins

PaulW,
Sorry for the late response but I've been knees deep in one of my French facies for a few days!
Thanks for the comment and pleased to see you have sorted the choke.

As for the tacho... being a 70-71 car it should have RVI on the face. If so, could you check the indicators are still working? These are fed from the same fuse as the power to the tacho (green cables), if not then check the fuse.

Nigel, TBH I don think the coil was faulty but the ignition module defo was (much to my surprise as well). The coil was a standard Lucas one and not the larger one you'd expect to see under a MGB bonnet. Anyway, it'll do as a emergency spare ;O)

best of....
MGmike



M McAndrew

Funny you should ask about indicators I made a list of what is working and what is not.
WORKING
both indicators
Both park or side lights
One headlight drives side
Radio/cassette player
Heater/blower
Rear lights/lights on plate
Rear screen heater
NOT WORKING
passenger headlight
Horn
Window wipers
Interior map light above radio
Cigarette lighter

So I will need to go through wiring and find the bad earth as all the fuses are fine


Green wire found two not connected shorter length wire was connected to back of tachometer nothing so possibly other green wire is correct wire need to have a better look see what else I can find
PW Creswell

Hi Mike,
I didn't realise/remember the B had a bigger coil but if you've got an electronic igniter it'll show its best with coil, HT leads, rotor, dissy cap and plugs all of good quality and order, so probably for the best.
Nigel Atkins

PaulW,
you'd best open another thread for the electrical stuff. Consulting the text in the Driver's Handbook will tell you which fuses covered what (from factory) and give the relevant (from factory) wiring diagram. I've found with Haynes in a particular that some of the wiring diagrams for the Spridgets are wrong which of course just adds to the confusion.

There might, or might not, be some significance to which items work or don't if they're on the same circuit, fuse or switch.

Don't just think of bad earths also consider bad or poor connections and switches and of course what the PO might or has done, take care.

You need to add tachometer and fuel gauge to the not working list, as they share a connection point their not working might be an example of a relationship to not working.

Be very careful about reconnecting loose wires and connections check them thorough first, them being live or not might be related to a switch or other connection.
Nigel Atkins

"The coil was a standard Lucas one and not the larger one you'd expect to see under a MGB bonnet"

Explain? AFAIK only modern coil pack systems are likely to be smaller.

The first video does seem to have the engine running pretty fast, but with no tach that's only perception and doesn't help. It's a bit clattery - subject to sound over the internet as before, but smooth enough.

The second video much the same except for the speed and more rattling which is impossible from here to comment on for a source.

Oil pressure is fine for what appears to be a hot idle.

Given the oil pressure and the fact the engine starts and runs I'm not sure what help the videos are.

Horn, courtesy light and cigarette lighter all come off the purple circuit which is the bottom fuse so that is a good bet as to the cause.

It depends on the year but the wipers and heater fan can come off one of two fuses, but if the heater fan is working the wipers not working isn't down to a fuse.

Ditto with all fused ignition circuits listed as working the tach is not a fuse problem as such. Some years daisy-chain the 12v feed off the instrument voltage regulator to the tach, so if the fuel gauge isn't working either that particular feed could have failed. It can come from a 4-way bullet connector behind the dash, which feeds other things like the indicators and the HRW, so with those working the supply to that bullet connector is good.

What about the reversing lights and brake lights?

The headlight is obviously a problem specific to that corner.

You will just have to work through things one by one as there are multiple problems, so no magic bullet i.e. no common point.
paulh4

Paul,
PaulW wanted to put up a video as "idle going up then dropping back down" (at the time?, as I didn't notice that in the vid).

The videos have helped, they have given a lot of visual information and the audio has brought up the possibly(?) loose fan (I'd still sooner that it was removed to see if it is the fan causing all the rattle).

In my opinion, initially at least a direct, black and white approach isn't always the only or best way to get the overall picture or repairs or improvements especially where the vehicle has had a DPO.

I totally agree the electric issues will need to be sorted one at a time and with great care and thoroughness given the PO wiring (IIRC alarm fitted, now removed?).

The car was built in June '71 but not registered until July 72.

Don't forget the coil is now history so what's it matter about the previous one. 😁
Nigel Atkins

I said the reason for the coil failure was history, it's the quote about 'larger' coils I was seeking clarification on as it's not something I've come across. Have you? Different resistance values yes but of the same physical size.
paulh4

I don't know if the different models/colours of Accu/Power Spark are slightly different sizes or the PerTronix or other makes.

I do know the Elta 'VXPRO' 5001 sports coil (sometimes with 'LUCAS' in the plastic top cover) is lightly slimmer and a different colour to previous Intermotor sports coil. Elta make the green label and now red label 'Lucas' and possibly 'Intermotor' label too.

You'd have to ask PaulW to go back to history and measure the physical and electrical sizes.

There are so many possibilities as to what could be put on these cars in 50 years, especially the last few decades, that's excluding copies and counterfeits.

Nigel Atkins

PaulH,

I'll see if I can find my "larger" coil in the tip I call a garage and take a couple of photos at the weekend.

It's an old one but goodun :O)
Back in the day I replaced the coil and was given "the right one for the car" gold in colour and IIRC was badged as a sports coil. Anyway it's way bigger than the coil fitted to other BMC/BL cars of the era. I'm kind of assuming it's got more oil to aid cooling but why I've not really thought about (until now).

Best of....
MGmike


M McAndrew

Mike,
(the roving mechanic?) you don't just mean the Lucas/Intermotor D?C105 sports coil do you? (now Elta as in my previous post.)
Nigel Atkins

I have original 12v, replacement 12v, 12v sport and 6v for a ballasted system coils so have been able to compare - most - of them. I can't find the original 12v as it's buried in my stash of old parts somewhere but of the others the replacement 12v measures 2.2" diameter, the sport 2.3" and the 6v 2.26". They are all the same length - can at least. I have only ever used the sport for bench tests but as soon as I put it alongside the replacement 12v then yes I could tell it was bigger. But moving from one to the other over the years it's not something I've ever noticed i.e. not way bigger to me at least.

Whilst the sport has a lower primary resistance than standard the secondary is nearly double at 5.4k ohms to 8.9k. If that's more turns of wire, as would seem likely for a higher output, then a fatter container is not unreasonable. Originally 12v coils entirely consisted of turns of wire, but when the 6v coil was developed for ballasted systems someone may have realised, or already knew from inductor theory, that with half the number of turns of primary that means less inductance and the effect is that the charging current rises faster and so will give a good spark at a higher rpm than a 12v coil. From there it was a small step to include the ballast resistance inside a 6v coil, and lo and behold you have a 12v coil with the same higher performance in terms of rpm. Probably cheaper to boot - less copper, only one coil on the winding machine, just the addition of a bit of resistance wire.
paulh4

https://youtu.be/vRCFwLHK7Ao

Another video of engine been tweaking with the engine
PW Creswell

To me it sounds like it's running far too fast and it may be exaggerated sound on the video but if the engine fan has ben checked or tightened then it still sounds a bit clattery, to me, but it might be a lot better if the engine speed reduced and is exaggerated by the recording anyway.

How to properly hold your phone when you record videos - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAd9sMbLBtc


Nigel Atkins

It sounds fast, seems to be fluctuating, and there seems to be a rattle. I don't know what we are being asked.

Is the tach working yet?

For the rattle If you want to isolate the fan, water pump and alternator take the fan belt off and run it for a few minutes.

With the engine stopped if you grab the fan blades and waggle it does it move about or rattle then?
paulh4

The rattle is the fan. I just needs some new grommets!
Preferably before it does damage to the holes in the fan it's self...

Best of...
MGmike
M McAndrew

I'd forgotten the fan was metal and with those rubber grommets, I used to warn about checking those rubber grommets and that was the days before piss poor rubbish rubber, you'd probably have to buy a dozen now to get a year's life out of them.

I couldn't run with that much noise on the engine, not only won't it do much for the fan as was put before it won't be doing the engine any favours either, perhaps not serious but best sorted ASAP. And the noise might be masking other sounds, including those you want to hear, very distracting for setting the carbs or tuning.

Nigel Atkins

It could be a very slack timing chain or something else to do with the engine itself, hence removing the fan belt to isolate the ancillaries.
paulh4

So would I need to disconnect the radiator to get to fan or can I undo the bolts at the sides and just lift radiator slightly away towards front of engine without having to drain it .just too save me the added hassle
PW Creswell

A simple remove and replace can be done with the fan in-situ, a bit easier with the rad bolts removed and it pulled forwards. But if there are problems and you haven't done it before it's a lot easier with the rad out altogether, primarily for bending back the lock-tabs on the fan screws.
paulh4

The locktabs I got for my brakes was modern made crap, I would threadlock the bolts with or without the locktabs so if they're a PITA to get in and are a crap modern made part (with insufficient tab) I'd not bother with the locktab.
Nigel Atkins

Ok will have a look hopefully tomorrow just to see what I might need to order did have a quick look the grommets are flexible but covered in grease or oil so that would cause issues I'm sure is there spacers between the fan and main housing and the grommets are on the fan itself ?
PW Creswell

The grommets are in the fan and the spacers sit inside them. The screws clamp the lock-tabs and the spacers to the pump flange or the spacer, leaving the fan with a certain of scope for flexibility on the grommets. Brake caliper lock-tabs are completely different to those used for the fan but are used here for much the same reason i.e. to stop the screws coming undone from vibrations. If you don't use lock-tabs you should use washers of a similar size as a buffer between the screw heads and the grommets.
paulh4

Paul (either), crap parts are crap parts.

Quite right, yes, I should have made it more clear, to a newbie, to use plain and split washers as required instead of locktabs (which modern made can be crap) as well as the threadlock.

In case it's not clear, in my experience of many modern made parts that are supplied to the classic car market by all the major suppliers some are crap, or piss-poor, particularly rubbish rubber.

Now, sometimes parts quality improves, often because even tight-fisted classic car owners can't put up with it any longer despite the rock bottom prices they pay.

It may be that the locktabs on the fan now supplied are excellent, I don't know but I wouldn't bet too much on it.

Threadlock has been used for a very long time even going back to when locktabs were standard, well made locktabs of yester-decades-back were fine, but we ain't not necessarily so living in them times now.

I'd loved to be proved wrong/too cynical, so compare the modern fan locktab with an original type and let me know, and possibly hope the rubber grommets are very old NOS if you want years rather than months out of them.
Nigel Atkins

This thread was discussed between 13/05/2021 and 02/06/2021

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