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MG MGB Technical - gear reduction starters

For those of you that have gear reduction starters in your B's, do you like them? Roadster Factory has them on sale this weekend for $189.00 $90.00 off. This sounds like a good price if quality is good.

I think my stock one in my 74 GT is dying, with a fresh /good battery it cranks slow and barely fires up.

I need to check my grounds but I think they are good.

Morgan Sellgren
Morgan Sellgren

I think that you will like the starter as it spins the motor more freely, especially if it is a high compression motor. About $100 more than a good rebuilt original though.

Mark
M Whitt

It won't sound like an MG any more when you turn the key. Rebuilt, your original should last another 33 years. Just food for thought.
Steve Simmons

I love mine. Steve is right: they don't sound like MG starters any more, but it sure spins the engine over easily and engenders lots of confidence.

FWIW,
Allen
Allen Bachelder

They simultaneously deliver faster cranking, less drain on the battery, a higher HT spark when cranking, and probably easier starting. As mentioned a very different sound though, when first fitting one to my V8 I though that it was just spinning and not engaiging with the flywheel it was so quiet, then it burst into life.

Other things to watch out for are some early ones were very poorly attached to the adapter plate - just 3 self-tappers and some super-glue in my case (which is why I don't still have it).

There are different drive cogs for different engines - inertia starters on the MGB (up to 67) and all V8s need 9 teeth whereas 4-cylinder pre-engaged starters need 10 teeth.

Your 74 should be OK as that implies chrome bumper, but many of these starters don't have the additional boost contact for the ballasted ignition on rubber bumper cars. It's less important than with the standard starter as starting should be easier anyway, and the effect is achievable with a suitable diode or relay.

The only down-side is that the last time I looked they were double the price of the standard starters which is a hefty premium for little day-to-day advantage.
Paul Hunt 2

I put one in the B that I passed on to my son. It is the early 74 (chrome) and the sound is the only thing we miss. It fires up quickly and if he forgets to choke it on a cold morning, he doesn't kill the battery before he figures out what he did wrong.
kids1

I can't get by the sound. The first time I heard one I turned around expecting to see a Chevy....
Bob Doc

They are several pounds lighter than stock and will start the car on a soft/weak battery compared to stock. My experience is that they will also engage a worn ring gear better than stock and put less wear on the ring gear.
There aren't any disadvantages that I've heard of or experienced.
Barry

Barry Parkinson

I think $180 is rich, but I have one. It is a much better starter. There are a few things

- The gear engages from the oposite direction. This is not as good for engaging the ring gear. The ring gear is cut to engage in the oposit direction. There are times when the engagement is not perfect. When that happens I need to move the ring gear a mil or two. I need to push the car in gear (stick a foor out and rock it)
- The isuzu starters fit with an adaptor plate. The plate is not worth the much, the starters can come from the junk yard. The trick in the design and milling of the plate.

they turn more easy and they last a lot longer
Frank Baker

I have one on my MGB. With the turn of the key it starts right up instantly. First time/everytime.

Regards, Ray
Ray 1977mgb

Well, I'm getting one with my Rivergate 5-speed conversion kit, so it'll be good to see first hand what y'all are talking about. ;)

R.
Rick Stevens

Did those of you who prefer the gear reduction starter replace a worn out or damaged original?

I have never had a problem with an original starter failing to start the car on the first crank. Nor have a ever drained a battery by cranking the engine.

A modern starter will be more efficient in operation, but what do you need that the original doesn't offer? Especially considering the price of a rebuild kit and that of the GR unit!
Steve Simmons

I saw an Isuzu Denso conversion page a while ago and it raised questions, as I'd just had my minivan starter in my hands.

I have a Dodge minivan 3.0 with a starter that looks identical to the Denso on the Isuzu. I am curious as to the difference between these and the Isuzu ones. I suspect there basically 2 Denso pinions (9 and 10 tooth) on the same starter, used on a variety of cars? Any info clearing the murkiness of conversions would be appreciated. These are neat little starters.

I also have a Dodge minivan 3.0 with a Bosch starter. I think the Bosch and Denso are interchangeable, but not adventurous enough to try.

Regarding dependability, both starters mentioned will wear out their solenoids. The Denso is cheap to fix in this case, only about $5 for contacts via an ebay seller. There is repair info on the web. The Bosch one needs a whole replacement solenoid (swaged together), more expensive. A genuine Bosch solenoid is recommended, I've had bad luck with others.

Tom

A gear reduction starter operates from the opposite side and so ignores any wear already on the ring gear *on cars originally fitted with an inertia starter only*. This is because the inertia gear pulls the pinion onto the back of the flywheel and the geared starter pushes it onto the front of the flywheel. On cars that had the pre-engaged starter originally (Mk2 67 on) there is no change as both types are pre-engaged and hence are pushed into contact from the front. But *because* these are pre-engaged there is usually much less wear than for an inertia type anyway.

Number of teeth on the pinion are covered above - briefly it is 9 teeth for Mk1s (up to 67) and V8s, and 10 for everything else.

The solenoid *should* last longer than the original Lucas, which is what tends to fail on the V8s at least because of the proximity to one of the down-pipes even when the heat-shield is fitted. The geared starter solenoid is usually bigger than the Lucas type, usually bigger than the motor! Ther are 'the other way round' to the Lucas types - instead of the motor being in line with the pinion and the solenoid on the side, it is the solenoid that is in line with the pinion and the motor on the side. Note that so-called 'Hi-Torque' starters are usually the same basic design as the Lucas and are not geared starters.

Because of the specific problem with V8s, and because mine was tending to eat batteries at the time, I did opt for the geared starter but went back to the original type for the reasons mentioned. Other than that and a 'cheap' way of 'fixing' a worn flywheel on a Mk1, on a correctly maintained car nothing else should be an issue.
Paul Hunt 2

Oh, except that these geared starters probably have a better reliability record than many so-called 'rebuilt' units.
Paul Hunt 2

I am using a geared starter on a '67 flywheel with the starter enaging the ring gear from the "wrong" side. It works just fine.

Some time back I read a tech article on the amps draw of the MGB starter compared with the draw of the geared starter. I don't recall the number, but the reduction in amps required was significant.

I installed my geared starter in a '67 GT with a 280z trans and custom engine backplate. The starter was a little too close to the frame. With a couple new holes drilled in the starter mount/adaptor, I was able to rotate the starter about 160 degrees so that it is below the starter bendix and the motor is tucked underneath and right up against the oil pan. It made a very neat installation.

Barry



Barry Parkinson

This thread was discussed between 18/02/2007 and 19/02/2007

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