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MG MGB Technical - Moss cylinder heads

Hi All

I have been asked if we do all the Moss MGB heads, the answer was yes but I now discover we are not the only suppliers of modded heads. If you do not get the power delivery/curve you expect please do not assume it is one of my heads.

Peter
peter burgess

Could you not mark the Heads you supply then?
K Harris

I can tell our modified heads when they come in, I do not need to mark them differently, although our finished heads usually have some identification we put on so we know whose head is whose. How would customers know what they were buying from other suppliers without buying direct?

Peter
peter burgess

HI Peter, thanks for posting this. The more important question is does Moss have a way of knowing what heads they get from you. I am about to purchase one and should be able to specify that it be one you did. I will be interested to hear what they say when I ask.
Bruce Cunha

Hi Bruce

I think the ones we have been doing for Moss might be UK market only but to be honest I do not know the situation, please keep me informed if you find anything out.

Thanks

Peter
peter burgess

At this stage it might be the modded and standard unleaded heads based on new MGB CI castings that are not mine.We do not supply heads to go out on Moss engines either. Anyone wanting one of our heads through Moss UK should be ok if they ask for it to be one of ours.

Peter
peter burgess

Hi Pete, spoke with my local Moss yesterday. They had no idea which was a Burgess head or not!!
They might be able to find out, but also might not!!

If I was you I would have some sort of permanent label fixed to your heads. Nothing wrong with a bit of publicity. At least there will be no argument.

Problem arises when someone thinks he has bought a Burgess head from Moss, then sells it on as a Burgess head, and is not happy with it. Then unfortunately it reflects (wrongly) on you.

Regards

Colin
Colin Parkinson

Just a note - all rebuilt heads supplied by Octarine Services have OS stamped (early ones engraved) on the top surface - usually on the rocker box sealing surface just behind the thermostat - all these heads are machined by Peter and assembled by me whether standard unleaded or modified.

I do also supply the new CI county heads but I do not stamp these.
Chris at Octarine Services

A wise precaution. RAY
rjm RAY

Hi Ray

Being a Sceptic....can people not copy stampings? I have come across this with some copies of my heads in the past :(

Peter
peter burgess

Peter, good point. I have seen an article, that I wrote for an MGB publication, posted on several sites on the web without my permission or credit being given to me as the author. I don't mind the knowledge being spread about, but it irks me that the people who post these articles can't be bothered to list the source. RAY
rjm RAY

You are right Ray, every so often I come across information taken from the books and articles we have written, this is without permission from ourselves or the Publishers, as you say, a shame 'they' cannot ask or maybe quote and attribute to author etc.

Peter
peter burgess

Peter-
As you know, sadly, when an author signs over publication rights to a publisher, the publisher usually obtains the sole right to grant permission to use the material. The author essentially cedes control of his writings in exchange for royalties. This is why I refuse to use a publisher and instead just give out free copies of my writings to anyone who makes a request via the Internet. Money is not the issue for me, but rather the proliferation of useful information to fellow enthusiasts.

Unfortunately, to grant recognition to a source without obtaining prior permission from the publisher that controls the copywrite is to invite a lawsuit for copywrite infringment. In our litigeous world, granting source recognition, while honorable, is a very dangerous move.

As I see it, if it's posted on an Internet website, then the author has intended it to be in the free public domain and freely available. We all feel that knowledge should be shared and proliferated for the common good, and that's why we all post here. As for the issue of giving and getting recognition, well, I think that I've already covered the risks inherent to that issue.
Stephen Strange

Stephen, I, for one, am not seeking any sort of special recognition for the articles written or experience derived advice offered. However, common courtesy would seem to dictate that, when someone posts information on the internet, the least that they can do is to list the source. In these situations, I suppose, that it is just as well that I am not mentioned since I'm not looking for any fame or notoriety. RAY
rjm RAY

Yes, unfortunately, we live in a world where the simple decency of granting recognition is dangerous. You will note that at the bottom of this webpage is the statement "All messages on this BBS are the Copyright MG Cars Enthusiasts' Club Limited, 1995-2010. No information may be republished without prior permission. All rights reserved." Technically, one cannot even quote anything from this BBS without authorization from the MG Cars Enthusiasts' Club Limited. Wotta world we live in!
Stephen Strange

I find it difficult to believe that Moss doesn't keep an accurate supply chain record and that they are therefore unable to identify who's head is who's.

It's pretty simple to record item #x recieved from Peter Burgess and sold to customer #y on #z date. They would have to be doing this as part of their traceable quality assurance. This is especially so with a low-volume, high value output like heads.

I'm assuming the person Colin spoke with either didn't know and didn't try hard enough to find out.

ps. since I've written this post I retain authorship rights to it, so sue me, MG Car's Enthusiast Clubs.
Curtis Walker

I work in the Locksmith industry.
There are companies that manufacture stamps to your design, be it a name or a logo.
There would be impractical to fake one of these stamps.
Something like this would seem to be a good investment for a shop such as Peter's.
Moss should not have a problem with this as it would be useful for tracking inventory and warranty claims.
As an end user I would certainly want to know the provenance of an expensive head.

Rich
Rich McKIe

Not to mention you could also stamp a serial number somewhere on each head with a code which you / Moss can then trace, through to who bought it etc.
Curtis Walker

I will see if we can get a brand sorted so we can hold the heads down and brand 'em. The difficulty is that some firms keep things to themselves and don't say they are my heads, usually this means they only buy from us for ease. Moss is a very big concern and the movement of used core can be difficult. The biggest problem for Moss is customers palming off cracked heads as exchange core, which is sad as some are very very obviously cracked. There is a system in place at Moss numbering used core depending which Moss has sent us the work.

We too struggle with obtaining used core and may well have to work with new castings in the not to distant future. Unfortunately these take an awful lot more time to 'make good' which will have to be reflected in the costs of working on a new core.

Peter
peter burgess

In my opinion, Peter, those firms are missing out on a positive selling point. Guys like youself, Jeff Schlemmer (distributors), Peter Caldwell (shocks), Jimmy Hilton & Joe Curto (carbs) and others have well-earned names amongst we MG enthusiasts and I would have thought reasonably commanded a premium for your artisan services!

And it still surprises me that with all the computer modelling and technical know-how of today that newly casted heads are not as good as the originals without work!

ps good luck with securing the ID of your labours!
Curtis Walker

Peter

You supply Mgmotorsports with C heads for his Sebring cars , how do you tell if its a fast road or just plain head.
I have one of these heads which I,m sure is holding back my performance, everybody i talk to says the inlet has been inlarged to much! the car runs +40 CP psitons and forged rods, rollers @ 1.5:1 I get 187 at flywheel which is far less than the 230 quoted on a mgmotor sport car(which mine is/was)I know going to 3.3ltrswill be better for one of your heads, any help or ideas,
S w Holmes

Hiya

We do not open up inlet ports beyond matching the machined 'funnel' to the cast part of the port. Inlet guide bosses only removed on Full Race Heads, 3 angle valve seats left good and wide except for Race Heads.A large port would lose low end bhp not high end bhp. What engine dyno are your figures from? Or are they rolling road figures and how do they compare with other figures from that dyno? How old is the engine in terms of miles? What cam are you running with the 1.5 rollers and is that what Doug recommended? What carbs? Sorry to ask all the questions but you haven't given much info in your post. We see just under 200 at the wheel on our rollers with a 770 sprint/hillclimb cam and triple Webers. I know our heads have produced a lot more than this with full race cams. If you look at the bhps the Big Healeys make you are looking for similar with Full Race C.

Peter
P Burgess

This thread was discussed between 19/04/2010 and 10/05/2010

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