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MG MGB Technical - play in wire wheels

I've just jacked up the back of my recent addition and find that there is a small amount of play in the wheel splines. If i put the handbrake on and try to rotate the wheel I have 3 to 4mm of movement at the outside of the tyre on one wheel and 5 to 6mm on the other. The splines still appear to have flats on them (i.e not sharp edged). Is this indicative of hub failure?
Steve Church

No, could just as easily be the brake shoes moving very slightly inside the drum, but relative to the back-plate not the drum. Having said that hub pline have to have ome play or you would never get the wheel on and off. If you don't get a clonk as you brake and/or take up the drive then the splines are fine.
Paul Hunt 2010

I checked the front wheels with the brakes applied and there was a similar 3 to 4mm of movement at the tyre perimeter.
The engine isn't running at the moment so can't try for 'clunks'.
I need to get some new tyres and want to have the wheels refurbished or get exchange ones but if the hubs are shot then I'd rather go the Minitor route and get them with tyres already fitted. That means different hubs and axle!
Steve Church

Steve,

Do you mean 3 to 4 mm play without the spinner on tight? That sounds normal to very good to me. As Paul says, there has to be clearance or you couldn't get the wheels off.

The back ones will wear quicker than the front ones, so it could be good to try one of the front wheels on a rear hub and vice versa. You can also check with the spare which may never have been used?

If you are getting 3 to 4 mm play with the spinner or wheel nut done up tight then you do have a problem!

Look carefully at the hubs. There is always a section of the splines that doesn't engage with the wheel so doesn't wear. How much difference is there between this part and the rest? Flat tops to the splines is good. They get sharper as they wear.

David
D Balkwill

Dave, it is with the spinners done up tight (how tight should they be?). I'll look at the inside of the hubs later. Looks like I may have worn splines then. Now I just need to find someone who has done a wire wheel conversion to find a disc wheel axle.
Steve Church

Got one of those in the garage. However I have been using it to play with dismantling the diff, which was a bit noisy after it ran out of oil many years ago, but otherwise ran fine aftewards. No hubs though, I can't imagine having sold them to anyone but can't imagine where they are.
Paul Hunt 2010

I have a standard disc wheel axle that is redundant since my V8 conversion. It is from a 1969 car and is complete with brake drums and everything. The only problem is that it is in Scotland.
Mike Howlett

I'm off on a club outing tonight and I'll ask there if anyone has done a disc to wires conversion. Mike, I may be in touch if no one has one and I can sort out a courier. Thanks to you both for offering.
Steve Church

I don't understand how you can turn the wheel by hand if the nut is done up tight. Hit the spanner or the spinner a bit harder!

If you undo the nut/spinner, how much play is there?
D Balkwill

The inside edge of the wheel hub mates on a conical smooth surface on the stub axle. The inside surface of the spinner fits against another conical surface on the outside of the hub. The friction between these surfaces is insufficient to stop the wheel turning totally especially when under engine load. I assume the splines are supposed to do this.
Steve Church

They do indeed, and because there has to be some play in order to get the wheel on an off (which is why its pointless checking the play with the spinner loose) the splines are hammered each time the torque on the wheel changes direction, which happens more often on the rears than the fronts. Initially it's inaudible, when you start to hear the clonk from the *wheels* (there are other sources of clonks from the back like the diff) it's time to keep an eye on the splines. First the flat top changes to the sharp top, then they start to lean, then they shear. With the spinner tight (best done after a run as they tighten further usually) and the handbrake pulled well up watch the drum as you rotate the tyre that few degrees. Is the drum moving as well? Or not? If it is (and the brake drum to hub nuts are tight) then it can't be the splines, so is probably the shoes moving on the backplate. If it isn't then it's the wheel moving on the hub, i.e. spline play. Mine moves about the same amount, is not that difficult to move by hand so I can't see it being the wheel tapers slipping against each other, and the drum moves as well.
Paul Hunt 2010

I've thumped the rear spinners with my new copper hammer. One still has a little play the nearside hub is solid. Not tried the fronts yet. I looked at a set of Minilites tonight (in case the hubs are shot) but they all needed refurbing. Shame 'cos they were dirt cheap. I'll maybe clean up the splines and take some pics tomorrow.
Steve Church

Is the brake drum turning with the wheel or not?
Paul Hunt 2010

Mike, I think I've decided to go for alloys anyway. Can you let me have your contact details .Email steve at rivend dot freeserve dot co dot uk.

Paul, not the drums didn't move. I've since tightened up the fronts with the copper hammer and there's no play there.
Steve Church

This thread was discussed between 06/07/2010 and 23/07/2010

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