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MG MGB Technical - Poor roadster front wings

I have two new Heritage front wings for my '72 Roadster. Annoyingly, the distance between the sidelight fixings and the vertical edge of the grille aperture is different for each wing. The difference is 5 or 6mm - not a lot, but as the total distance is only about 20mm on the widest wing it's a fair proportion. This gets more noticeable as the grill surround on a '72 B overlaps the aperture and mine will almost foul the light fixing on the narrow side whilst leaving a healthy gap on the other. Anyone else got/had the same problem?
Richard Coombs

Richard
If the error is as large as you say and they are genuine Heritage products, I would ask for replacement immediately, assuming this is possible.
They should never have got past the QA stage at the factory let alone on the shelf of the supplier.
If you obtained them new from a reputable source, you should have a problem!
If you carry on and manage to fit them, then your eye will be drawn to it each and every time you approach the car and will be immensely annoying!
Dick
Dick

Look at page 20 of Clausager - that is exactly what it shows! Touching on the left and a clear gap on the right, see the attached. You can even see the different spacing on the M reg V8 on the facing page. Ignore it, it's original!

Paul Hunt

6mm is 1/4 inch which seems to be the tolerance the MG was built to in the first place! Even with the 3/4 inch or so oversized holes along the mounting edge of the wings I still had to file some out to get the bolts through.

Most people won't notice a detail like that. When you start looking at these cars closely you find all sorts of issues with them. Try looking at the door gaps and the size of the gap under the B pillar where the dog leg overlaps the sills. They are usually different on each side of the car.

Simon
Simon Jansen

"They're all like that sir"

5-6mm is not bad!

Mike

I'm amazed so many of you can dismiss this under the old maxim of "they're all like that live with it"
Mine certainly aren't and in the event that I fitted some genuine replacements I would't expect those to be any different.
As for a tolerance of 1/4" (approx 6,0mm) being an acceptable design approach on external body features ~ what absolute bo***cks
Dick

Bollocks is an opinion, 1/4" tolerance is a fact, as is the usual 3/4" difference between the tyre and the arch at the rear when comparing side to side. As to whether one lives with it or not that is up to the individual. Another common and major mis-match is the relationship between the grille and each wing - the grill is more or less flush on the left and recessed by about 1/2" on the right. I had to do some pretty major over-drilling and rebending of the wings much like Simon to get the sides the same.
Paul Hunt

I've been restoring mine for 5 years now and in that time I look over EVERY B I come across with a very critical (overly probably) eye. I would think the only cars I have seen that are well put together are those that have been fully restored and had a LOT of money spent on them to be that way. Anything truely original is pretty wonky.

What I can't understand on mine is the right hand wing sits forwards about 6mm compared to the left. Since I am doing a Sebring type front I mounted the grille flush with the front so I had to make up my own brackets. The LEFT hand bracket needed to be 6mm longer than the right even though it should be the right wing that is further out!

Mine has been in several shunts in her time as well so mine is probably more out than most. The left rear corner is a mess.

As Paul says it comes down to what you can live with. Unfortunately now you've seen it you won't be able to not notice it.

Simon
Simon Jansen

Many thanks for the varied opinions and facts. Can't return the wings as it's a couple of years since I got them. I had indeed noticed some B's with the LH grill edge near the sidelights but I guess I was a bit surprised the 'error' continued through so accurately into Heritage parts. I also had an issue with my RH wing being some 10mm forward of the duct panel. I had to rebuild the panel front edge anyway so problem gone, but still annoying, particularly as it also meant moving the two vertical fixings on the inside of the grill area. Paul is quite right about the 'offset' to the rear wheels. I hadn't noticed mine until I bought some alloys with a deep mounting boss which promptly put wing metal to rubber on the LH side.
As much as I like the idea of maintaining originality I prefer things to look good so I'll probably dig deep and have a go at 'moving' the LH sidelight. Well, it's only been two and a bit years since I started so I've someway to go to catch Simon.
Richard
Richard Coombs

"I was a bit surprised the 'error' continued through so accurately into Heritage parts"

That is because they are truly original in they they are made using the original dies and jigs in practically every case, warts and all.
Paul Hunt

How good was the finish on the original cars? I don't mean the perfect ones they sent to the car shows and so on. I mean the ones people would buy from the dealers.

Simon
Simon Jansen

Abingdon cars were better than those from other factories, which is why dealers would try and get Morris 1000 Travellers from Abingdon as they had less warranty problems with them. However Abingdon only did final assembly of components to bodies, all cars of the MGB period were received as fully built and painted bodies, so any panel issues would be down to Cowley etc. Having bought new BL cars in the 70s they weren't perfect, but not humungously bad despite what people say about them today.
Paul Hunt

An obvious solution has been suggested by a friend. Why not reshape the grille by reforming the lower tray at the left edge to 'remove' 6mm, thus bringing in the grille surround edge from the sidelight? As the overlap between the wing and grille suround is some 10mm this should look ok (from the front) and save a lot of hassle, not to mention the heartache everytime I noticed the 'original' error. The simplest ideas are the best even if they are someone elses!
Regards
Richard
Richard Coombs

You cannot judge cars of yesterday by todays standards. Panel gaps when the MGB was being produced in the 60,s and 70's were nothing like the accepted norm today.

Even in the 1980's Leyland was producing cars like the Rover SD1 with door shut lines that you could get your finger into.
R J Collier

No No No, Paul is right.
don't get it antiseptically exact.
This is what MGB's are, and this is what makes them special. The species with the greatest variability is the one most likely to survive.

"It's not the strongest or most intelligent species that survive; it is the one most adaptable to change"
Darwin
Peter

Interesting you say that about SD1s, RJ. I had two and neither struck me as having massive panel gaps, at least by the norms of the day. But in the 90s I saw a P5 at a classic show at the NEC and you could have got your hand in the gaps. OK, slight exaggeration, but they stuck out (if you see what I mean) like a sore thumb from two stands away and I just had to get closer to make sure I was seeing what I though I saw. I put it down to the restoration, although I couldn't see how you could get so many increased gaps down the length of the car and still fit all the panels in!
Paul Hunt

Paul H

Like most on here I find it very interesting to compare cars in Motor museums to modern day cars. Since both Gaydon and Coventry museums are both near you I am sure you have been. In fact I think there's an unrestored original SD1 Rover in Coventry museum with panel gaps as I describe.

Rob
R J Collier

Ok, ok!! So personal taste has to be swayed by what is 'normal' for cars of this age. My final decision re the grille is on hold.
While we've moved on to panel gaps, what is the received wisdom for gaps around the doors? With new rear half-wings, new doorskins and new front wings (properly aligned with bonnet front edge) it looks like my vertical gaps will each be 3-4mm. Looks nice! Please don't tell me they need to be finger width and different front to back and side to side. I just couldn't take that much in aid of originality!
Richard
Richard Coombs

I took a lot of care over my door gaps (including welding around the edges in some places) and mine are pretty even at around 5mm so 3-4mm is very good I would say!

Have you done the boot lid yet?

Simon
Simon Jansen

Hi Simon,
Oh yes! Have I done the bootlid?!?!
To cut a long story short my new lid was not the same shape as the old and, therefore, nor was the hole to fit it in. Sometime in its early days my B must have had a rear shunt which, amongst other things meant a new lid. To get this to align nicely with the rear panel the workshop changed the profile of the panel, all work I had to undo. Plenty of brute force and ignorance! Careful measuring proved to me that the old lid was in fact non-symetrical whereas the new one is (almost).
The trickiest thing was the new lid still fouled the LH edge. I ended up cutting a 300mm line on the left of the gutter strip with a 1mm cutting blade, tapping the gutter to close the gap, and rewelding. Now I have about 3mm gap along LH & RH edges, with maybe 5 at the top. The last remaining problem is that the centre of the top edge of the lid sits a few mm high of the rear deck, whilst being a similar amount low at the corners. Haven't had the courage to try some bending of the lid and will probably live with it. As others have been trying to tell me it's all part of the originality!
Richard
Richard Coombs

Yes, boot lids and the holes the go into seem to be two entirely different shapes! Mine has also been dinged at the back making ti much worse than usual. I did get it fitting pretty well but now it seems to be sitting too high again so I am going to have to have another go at mine.

You can VERY carefully change the curvature of the boot lid by taking it off, putting it upside down on a blanket then carefully pushing down on the sides to flatten the curve a bit. If you go too far though you can kink the frame so you have to be careful.

The other thing I have done is use small blocks of wood under the corners then carefully close the lid down onto these pushing the corners up a little.

Simon
Simon Jansen

Rob - saw a white SD1 in Coventry today, modified according to the plaque and certainly not in original condition. Whilst there was a noticeably large gap between the doors that was down to poor door fitting as the gaps between doors and wings were much smaller. If the gaps had been equalised they wouldn't have been that much more than the modern Peugots opposite, see attached. The Delorean had bigger gaps, and that was all of them! None as big as that P5 I saw though.
Paul Hunt

Wrong button

Paul Hunt

How good or bad the gap look is affected by the colour of the car of course. I am fitting Sebring fibreglass fairings to my car and getting the gaps even on them is really tricky. I am thinking of painting the front one bright yellow (the rest of the car is BRG) to really make it stand out so no one notices the gap :)


Simon Jansen

Do what TVR did and build a 2" gap in :o)

Fibreglass panels are notorious for poor fit, but they are possibly easier to deal with than metal.
Paul Hunt

I think it depends on what sort of resin they are made from. Mine are just polyester so I can just cut and hack them then slap more fibreglass on with no problems. The only way to get the rear valence to fit was cut it in half, get each side fitting then join the two halves back together (filling in the half inch gap between the two parts).

Simon
Simon Jansen

This thread was discussed between 23/02/2009 and 12/03/2009

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