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MG MGB Technical - Pulling engine only

I need comments on pulling the engine only...
Peter Murray

It can be done. In my experience the hard part is separating the engine and tranny, and then realigning them when you put it back in. Any reason you want to leave the transmission in vs. pulling it as a unit with the engine?

I consider myself a slightly above average home mechanic and I had my gearbox and tranny in and out in two weekends (about 3 days of work) worth of time including a clutch job and misc cleaning and switch replacement on the new transmission. I wasn't racing but was diligent. If your doing it to save time, I doubt you will achieve much if any time savings.

If you do proceed be sure to support the transmission with a jack at the front.

-Bill
Bill Mertz

Peter,

Go look at the "engine removal" thread on the MGB General board. It is running right now, so you don't need to look in the archives.

From there you should be able to get about 20 opinions.

Essentially it is a decision to be based upon what you intend to do, what tools you have at your disposal, and if you want to fiddle a bit to save time.

Charley
C R Huff

Thank you for the heads up in the general section and thank you for your comments, all.
Peter Murray

Separating is easy - as long as you have the gearbox properly supported and the straps on the engine just starting to take the weight of it (the gearbox). Reassembly was also surprisingly easy given all the comments, just a matter of getting the end of the first-motion shaft located inside the release bearing, and as the two casing are brought together make sure the flywheel is square with the gearbox casing in both vertical and horizontal orientations, and the two casing are aligned both vertically and horizontally with the same gap all round. I did expect the splines to baulk and was prepared to turn the crankshaft, but they just pushed together. Lucky? I'm known for it, but I did grease the ends of the splines on the shaft and friction plate as well down their length. I did wonder if I should lock the gearbox in gear with the handbrake on, but without that the shaft turns very easily, and maybe it's easier for the splines to self-align that way.
Paul Hunt

Paul,
Are you saying to lift the engine and trans together as a unit(taking the slack out of "everything") prior to blocking the trans and removing the engine?
Peter Murray

So much good and correct advice, but I can't help but add that until the owner pulls and replaces their "B" engine by each method maybe six times they have not truly lived the dream......

Cliff
Cliff Maddox

Peter - I removed the top and side bolts between bell-housing and engine leaving just the bottom two. Lifted the engine with the hoist so the bell-housing was nearly at the top of the transmission tunnel, supported the gearbox at the front of the bell-housing on a jack, released the lift on the engine very slightly so the gearbox was almost entirely supported by the jack, removed the last two bell-housing bolts, and the engine pulled straight off.

One problem we didn't expect is that even at full stretch the hydraulic trolley hoist we had wouldn't even reach the front of the engine, let alone the middle. I had to go in from the side, where it only just reached, then bit by bit pull the engine forward with a rope and tie it off to the bonnet slam panel, while I dragged the hoist sideways against the run of the wheels, pull the engine a bit more and so on. When I had pulled the engine far enough forwards to clear the end of the first-motion shaft I could raise the engine above the line of the front wings, and pull it sideways clear of the car, this time using the wheels on the hoist. Replacement was the reverse of removal, during which the rope we were using to pull the engine forward broke, and my assistant (the owner!) smashed his Rolex. Fortunately a £2 copy :o)
Paul Hunt

I found it easier to handle the engine alone when working alone. Support the trans as Paul mentioned.

If I have a partner, I do both together.


Hard part for me is aligning the spines - usually takes me multiple attempts.
Phil Collura

There are many threads on this subject. It's entirely possible to pull the engine only and you may find some threads that note that pulling both as a unit requires turning both upward and, unless the car itself was pitched upward properly, you can't make the turn and clear the front of the car. Thus, engine only is easy enough, but having done this many times, let me make a few notes. (1) You'll need to support the transmission in some manner, a simple jack of some sort works well (I use a hydraulic one)(2) the engine needs to be balanced by mounting a chain to the front and rear bolts of the cylinder head and attaching the "hook" so the engine raises without front or back pitching over (might take a resetting a couple of times) (3) if you're planning to do any clutch work, you'll need a clutch alignment tool (Moss has them for less than $10), if you don't align it, you'll likely never make the engine mate to the transmission when reinstalling.

Personally, I've never removed both and feel nervous enough about the engine only hovering over the car. The engine and transmission combined is a significant amount of weight.
Rick Penland

Either way you go it's good to invest in a tilt lift type device that allows you to adjust the angle of the load your lifting by shifting the weight front to back. i think they are pretty cheap and if you are gonna pull more than one motor in your life time, probably well worth the money.

-Bill
Bill Mertz

I used a rope looped under the front and back of the engine, crossing like an X over the rocker cover. I think a rope will equalise as it takes the load better than a chain, which could take a certain amount of load and then slip a bit. Took the weight of the engine and tested the 'twang' of each bit of rope and it seemed fine. When the two halves started coming apart they were still very well aligned. I only replaced the clutch and did some work on the exhaust manifold and engine mounts so was able to leave the engine attached to the hoist with the rope, with some of the weight being taken by a bench so the engine didn't swing around while I was spannering it. That meant it was still correctly aligned when I came to reinstall and I didn't need a tilt device. If you detach the engine from rope and hoist for more comprehensive dismantling, then you may need a bit of trial and error to get it correctly aligned again, or use a tilt device.
Paul Hunt

Again thank you all, I will be "pulling" it this weekend!
Peter Murray

Paul

I am just about to remove the engine only ('73 MGB GT) for the first time, picking up an engine hoist this evening.

I like your description of how to do it and plan on following that ( your 5 Sep. 15:33 posting) - there must reason you leave the bottom bolts in place rather than the side ones? Just they would be a lot easier to get at?

Mike
Mike Dixon

I've just done same with mine. Just pulled engine and replaced with another engine and new clutch. I've always done it this way. The one exception I found a bit of a nightmare getting the angle right on the engine/box, gave up the unequal struggle and replaced them separately.

I use a Clarke 1000Kg hoist (Machine Mart) with the arm fully extended, and thus a reduced 250kg limit. Use a similar process to as described by others taking weight on hoist, but with hydraulic jack under box. On replacement, despite getting both square on, continually measuring gap top and bottom, using studs as guide rails either side of engine/box, drawing the two together, wiggling the crank pulley, it took hours engaging first motion shaft with clutch/spigot bearing. If I'm honest, it usually does, and I must have done it a dozen times. Maybe it's trying to do it by myself. The usual thing going through my head: did I properly align the new clutch? Will I have to take it all apart again? Then, just when I'd exhausted my more colourful vocabulary, it all went together and I was back in love again.
Peter Allen

I put a clutch in my brother's BGT nearly 40 years ago and struggled to get the engine and 'box mated.

Eventually, we lifted the engine out again, unbolted the clutch and tried the friction plate on the first motion shaft, only to find that it wouldn't fit.

Five minutes with a needle file to clean up the splines and it was all good.

Something to check before bolting everything together.
Dave O'Neill 2

For the A series I have spare First motion shafts but when I did my 'B' I machined one up from a solid bar - spigot bearing / inside of centre plate diameter.

This was with a newly installed spigot bearing, not sure if a worn bearing would make it more difficult to align - introducing more possible error or not ?

For a 1500 I bought a 'universal' tool - lots of spacer sizes to fix together and it did not work very well I seem to remember.

R.
richard b

I also have an A-series first motion shaft. Prior to that, I used to line them up by eye. Tightening the pressure plate just enough to lightly hold the friction plate, eyeballing through the hole and using a long screwdriver to move the friction plate as necessary.

For the B, I found that a short length of electrical conduit fitted perfectly.
Dave O'Neill 2

Dave,

Did you have two different sizes of conduit, one inside the other or eye ball it ?

I'll dig out my home made one and post a pic if I can find it.
richard b

As to prior alignment, presumably if one can get the engine and box together one has got it right? I've always worked on basis that there is no room for error.

Sliding the new friction plate on the shaft is a good tip, Dave, and I've done that in the past, but forgot on this occasion!

The ideal tool would be a spare first motion shaft. In the past I've used bits of tube etc and also done them by Mk1 eyeball. A couple of years ago, in anticipation of this job, I bought a pukka tool which turned out to be a bit of moulded plastic, which would have been fine, but when it came to use it turned out to be one for an earlier car.

This time I made a tool using two sockets from my Kamasa socket set (from memory a 9/16" and 15mm - they're all subtly different in diameter at the sharp end) and a long bolt which seemed to work.
Peter Allen

Mike - When you are lifting the engine with the hoist leaving the bottom two bolts done up until last ensures the engine and gearbox are pressed together so there is no risk of bending the gearbox shaft. Once the bell-housing is at the top of the tunnel you support the gearbox then start slackening those bolts, watching the gap between engine and gearbox. The gap should open up equally all the way round, that way you know the two are in line and the shaft is safe. If the gap starts opening up differently top and bottom then you need to adjust the hoist or the gearbox support, and if side to side then alter the position of the hoist.

When sliding the engine off the gearbox if the bolts are left in place they act as guide pins, likewise when fitting the two back together.

May have said this earlier but when the CB is pulled forwards the sump will hit the crossmember before the cover plate has cleared the shaft, but the splines should now be free so you can tilt the engine a bit more to pull it the rest of the way forwards. The RB with the body higher on the crossmember can be pulled straight back. Likewise reinstalling CB has to be lowered with the engine at a steeper angle till the shaft is just inside the cover plate, then it can be lessened and slid back the rest of the way, making sure the gap is equal all the way round.

When fitting a new clutch to the V8 we had half a dozen alignment tools all the wrong size, so I eyeballed it. It was quite easy (on that at least) to see when the friction plate was concentric with the cover plate and the two went back together first time. If you use the bolts as guide pins and there is an equal gap all the way round then it can only be spline alignment stopping the two going back together. That could be rotational misalignment rather than lateral misalignment (friction plate not centered), I've left the gearbox shaft free to turn so that in theory the friction plate splines will nudge the gearbox shaft into the correct position and it's always worked for me. If not you could try spannering the crank pulley nut with the plugs out, but in that case the gearbox would need to be locked or turning the crank may turn the gearbox shaft with it.
paulh4

Thanks all - engine successfully out. Getting at the bottom bolts was not a problem and using a load lever seemed to keep everything in line.


Mike
Mike Dixon

Here's the pic's of the tool I knocked up some years ago to align the plate - 18V a good tight sliding fit onto plate and 1st motion shaft.

Its only had the one use as I sold the 'B' some years ago.

I think its easy to slightly misalign the plate - a few thou out and it can be a struggle. I normally give the motor a bit of rotation to get the shaft fully home.

R.




richard b

Richard b - that looks a very professional bit of kit. You're right - a few thou out would make it difficult to engage the shaft with the clutch/engine, but after a lot of effort it eventually does. Of course, it then centres itself the first time one dips the clutch pedal. When doing mine I felt it was possibly a two stage process - first, the shaft into the spigot bearing, and then the shaft splines into the friction plate.
Peter Allen

Having done all this, someone at the weekend mentioned releasing the gearbox mount even for engine only removal .

I did wonder about this but Haynes does not mention it as far as I can see

Is it something I should have done? Now is the time to inspect/replace the gearbox mounts if I have damaged them?

Not that I am looking for more to do.....
Mike Dixon

No, not necessary at all.
As noted sbove, just keep the gearbox propely supported as the engine is released and the box left behind.
Paul Walbran

"releasing the gearbox mount"

If it was a CB car someone may have decided to drop the rear crossmember so they could get a bit more tilt on the engine and gearbox, then withdraw the engine straight back. But it's not needed as described above i.e. with the bellhousing at the top of the tunnel draw the engine back until it hits the crossmember, then you can tilt it more to clear that and withdraw it the rest of the way. Re-installation is the reverse of removal.
paulh4

Does anybody ever manage this without paint removal? In other words, it might be worth having thick rags in strategic places, at least on re-entry.
Peter Allen

Peter, nice thick blankets over the front panel.

Give them a wash before you put them back on the bed!!!!

Colin
Colin Parkinson

In my early days with the GPO training courses were residential and people travelling long distances would stay weekends as well. On one course a chap decided to do some maintenance on his motor bike. That led to notices asking that people refrain from doing vehicle maintenance in the bedrooms.
paulh4

This thread was discussed between 04/09/2008 and 02/10/2021

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