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MG MGB Technical - Rubber Parts

Had a great conversation with Martin Macgregor of Macgregor british parts in Canada. Martin was a engineer at BMC and now has a company that sells and reproduces british car parts.

Martin was able to supply me with upper and lower seals for the 67 GT hatch. Unfortunately, he said they do not have any side vent rubber seals. He said the ones they have gotten have not been to his quality and he will not sell them.

According to Martin, the old rubber parts were molded whereas the new ones are extruded. Material used is not the same and just is not holding up as the old material.

He did not have any recommendations on getting good ones. Guess for now, I will have to live with replacing these every 3 or so years.
Bruce Cunha

cheers for coming back with that Bruce

I and others have been banging on about rubbish rubber for a few years now

I had so much trouble with different batches from different suppliers at different locations of 1/4" fuel hose I now use the modern 6mm, fits the carbs better too

from another thread, I put -

rubbish rubber I know about -
. track rod ends boots
. steering rack gaiters
. drop links (bushes)
. axle strap
. fuel hose
. s/s braided fuel hose
. coolant hoses
. 'Kevlar' water hoses
. door seals
. header rail seal (profile)
. suspension bushes
. wiper blades (elements)
Nigel Atkins

I had purchased several rubber components, from VB, for the doors on my '67 B Tourer back in 2000. The parts sat in a box for ten years due to my putting off the project for one reason or another. When I finally installed the window rubbers in 2010, I was surprised to find them in like new condition. They still look like brand new. Of course, the rubber seals, that I installed, were manufactured over fourteen years ago and the company that made them is probably out of business today. It's a sad state of affairs when you can't purchase quality replacement parts for love nor money. RAY
rjm RAY

Martin explained that the material that they used to use has some environmental issues and was replaced by the current material.

I Still cannot understand how new cars, which have a lot of rubber-like materials are any different. If they have quality products, why are ours so bad

I actually know then answer to that. It is cheaper and we are not dealing with the companies that supply the auto industry. We are dealing with plants that know there is a need, but have to keep their costs to the lowest they can.

Martin did mention that there are still pricing choices in products for our cars. He used the example of Bristleflex door seals that his company makes. They also make a less expensive seal that is still totally adequate and made to his quality standards. It is just not a fancy and the bristleflex.

As I mentioned, I am at a point where I would rather pay a bit more for quality part than have to replace it every few years.

Ray. One thing Martin did say. If the rubber has white power on it, it is probably the older, better material. That was the release agent in the mold.
Bruce Cunha

Bruce it's the majority of classic owners that only want to pay the cheapest they can for the parts and it doesn't matter so much to them as they rarely use the cars so notice the faults less

however some parts got so bad that even tight-fisted classic owners were fed up with it and quality parts were commissioned or made better - e.g. rotor arms, electric stalk switches

over here MoT failures over rubber gaiters and TRE boots I hope will at least improve these parts

I missed off windscreen to body seals off that list, mine were curled from when fitted and had splits in them within a couple of years
Nigel Atkins

With all due respect to Martin, I don't see how something like vent wing seals could be extruded. Ditto things like windscreen pillar seals, which I've issues with. Things with complex shapes like that would have to be molded.

That said, I've been messing with MGs since 1995 and rubber has always been a problem. One workaround for me has been to source parts from other cars. For example, Jaguar JLM347 steering rack gaiters work well.

IIRC, Moss US used to sell two gaiter kits, a "cheap" one and a "good" one. I think the cheap one was maybe $20 and the good one was maybe $50. They quit selling the good one because it sold so poorly. So generally people /say/ they want better parts, but vote with their dollars for poor quality ones.

It's a catch-22 though. Moss implied that the cheap ones were "good enough" simply by offering them for sale. If they were total crap they wouldn't sell them, right? Wrong. They had to sell them -- if they didn't and only sold the good ones no one would buy them because "why buy them from Moss when VB has them for $20? Moss is too expensive. I'm just going to get everything from VB from now on...."

I guess folks like Martin and Jeff Schlemmer can get away with selling better parts for more money is that they're niche players and aren't full-line vendors. Although it is nice to see Jeff's rotors and (I think) Martin's seals at Moss!
Rob Edwards

As i have said many times before, classic car owners fall into two broad categories; 1. Those who hand over their cars for service, maintenance, and repair and more often than not simply look at the bottom line. The garage/mechanics also look at the profit margin.
2. Those, like myself, who are the proverbial "oily rags" and do everything themselves.
Personally I hate having to repeat a replacement, especially the awkward ones and therefore want quality parts which aren't going to fail prematurely.

The windscreen pillar rubbers failed on my roadster after 3 years. The outer tailgate seal, on my V8, has deteriorated after only 4 months!!!!
I am in the process of doing a body shell "swap" for a chap. We removed the windscreen and tailgate glass last week. After cleaning, the seals were flexible and supple and definitely to be re-used. New ones I have handled are hard by comparison.
My current bug bare is the quality of Lockheed Delphi remote servos. Having spent not an inconsiderable amount of time changing my servo, it was most annoying that the ********* thing didn't work, dangerously so!!!
Allan Reeling

Extruding seals with variable cross sections is possible, the tools for the job have been around for a while. The cross section of the mould is changed as the seal is extruded from the mould. Here is a figure from a patent (EP0482901A1) which shows how it can be done. (Sliders 32 and 33 are moved in and out to modify the shape as required.) I agree that the vent window is probably easier to mould but who knows what method is chosen in the real world.

Mike

PS: Allan, are you scrapping a GT bodyshell? I could do with a section of windscreen frame and scuttle. If you are going to scrap the shell, would you be willing to sell me a section please? If so, please let me know on mike at standring dot de

Mike Standring

Bruce, come to think of it, the rubber components that I installed on my doors were covered in a white substance. I thought nothing about it at the time, but it must have been the releasing agent that Martin referred to. RAY
rjm RAY

Mike,
Not my decision to make really. And we are hanging on to it till the bitter end. The owner might want to sell the complete shell rather than have the hassle of cutting it up, it's up to him.
Allan Reeling

This thread was discussed between 01/02/2014 and 04/02/2014

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