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MG MGB Technical - Tie rod/ball joint nut trouble slackening

Well, when I bought this 1972 MGB-GT 10 weeks ago I noticed that the steering rack gaiters were leaking slightly. Like they had a pin hole. So I bought some new gaiters and thought I would replace them when I had some time. Well, today I thought I would add some oil to the rack so as to hold me over for a while. I added the 90wt. oil, about a half pint by removing the cover where the rack damper piston sits. This all went well. When I checked under the car. I could now see that the leaking gaiter on the passenger side was worse then just a pin hole leak. So I thoght, now is the time to try and replace the gaiters.

The nut that holds the ball joint to the tie-rod will not loosen for me and I do not want to strip the nut.
I sprayed it with PB Blaster several times, tapped the nut with a hammer, let it sit a while to allow the PB blaster to penetrate. Still will not loosen. I then added some heat to the nut with an acetelene torch, tried again still no luck. Added more penetrant, and more taping. If I try any harder to loosen the nut I am going to round it. I even used a "V" open end wrench to help grip the nut on four sides.

Any suggestions on what I should try next to get the nut loose?

John Fraioli
1979 Inca Yellow MGB
1972 Teal Blue MGB-GT
John F

John - If the tie od end does not need to be replaced, leave it in place and just unscrew the tie rod from the end. to do this, measure the distance from the lock nut at the tie rod end to a mark that you scribe at some point on the rod and record the measurement. Then loosen the clamp around the gaiter and loosen the lock nut just enough to allow you to grip the rod with vice grips and unscrew it from the tie rod end. Reverse the operation after replacing the gaiter. If the tie rod end need to be replaced, just get a nut cracker to get the offending nut off. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Dave: You have me confused.
"Loosen the lock nut just enough to allow you to grip the rod with a vice grips and unscrew it from the tie rod end".

It is the lock nut that I can not loosen.

I assume when you say the "Tie rod end" you are referring to the ball joint. According th "Haynes" I need to loosen the lock nut then seperate the ball joint from the steering arm and then unscrew the ball joint from the tie-rod. Thus allowing the gaiter to come off the tie rod.

Or are you saying that I can remove the tie rod from the steering rack assembly by just seperating the ball joint from the steering arm and then unscrew the tie rod from the rack assembly.

BTW Happy Father's day to all Dads.
John
John F

No, you do neeed to split the taper, a difficult job. Just turn the tie rod out of the tie rod end. Thats how I did mine. I painted the tie rod first and then refitted to the paint marks then got it tracked.
Stan Best

I think John is trying to turn the tie rod out of the tie rod end but he cannot loosen the jam nuts. I don't have a solution other than using a pipe wrench on the jam nuts or split them.

Clifton

Clifton Gordon

John - Sorry, I didn't read close enough. Clifton has the right idea, A BFW (as opposed to a BFH) with a long enough lever arm on it is what is needed. I wouldn't worry about rounding the nut. If you do round it, then it's time for a nut splitter. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

re-reading this you are right, he is trying to do it the easy way but the lock nut is stuck. I think those nuts are already history, I would get my 18" Stiltson(= pipe wrench) on them and if that did not work a scaffold pole over the end. I have never known this fail where you can get the leverage, but if all else fails you can get a hacksaw and slice one edge of the nut off. This destroys its mechanical integrity and the wrench will always bring it off then.
Stan Best

John, I have to ask, are you trying to tighten rather than loosen the jam nuts? With the wrench on the jam nut and wrench handle pointing toward the front of the car, pull up on the driver side jam nut and down on Passenger side jam nut to loosen. I'm referring to left had drive cars. I apologize if you knew this. I have seen them very tight, especially on newer Japanese vehicles, but have always been able to loosen them.

Clifton
Clifton Gordon

The first time my tracking was done they had to get the lock-nut red-hot with an oxy-acetylene torch to undo it. You are very unlikely to strip the thread, but you might well bugger the flats on the nut, which once you have the track-rod end off the track-rod is neither here nor there. When I got it home I slackened it again (before it could re-sieze) and applied copper-grease. Since then they have been fine, having successfully replaced the gaiters many years later.
Paul Hunt 2

Thanks for the tips.
My question now would be. What are my chances of causing damages to the parts? Specifically, the tie rod. How is the tie rod attached inside the steering mechanism? If I try using the pipe wrench on the "Jam" nut do I also put a pipe wrench on the tie rod to hold agianst the pull? Or do I hold the tie rod end with a wrench or both? If I use a lot of force could the force twist or bend the tie rod? I would need an extra hand if I need to hold a wrench on the tie rod end as well. Part of the problem is it is hard for me to get much leveage with the car only up about a foot on jack stands. and me lying on the floor. I'm sure I could get a much better pull if the car was up high on a lift. I don't have that available. I'm thinking if I cut the nut off with a hack saw or a nut spliter, I will still have to unscrew the tie rod end, this may be rusted on just as badly.

I guess what I really need to know is how is the tie rod connected inside the steering rack? The Haynes manuel says to hold it from turning when undoing the jam nut and tie rod end. I just want to make sure I don't do any extensive damage to the steering rack assembly if it does turn while I am forceing the jam nut or tie rod end off.
John
1979 Inca Yellow MGB
1972 Teal Blue MGB-GT
John F

The tie rod just twirls round at the rack end, but you are not going to touch that end. At the ball joint end it just goes into a threaded hole, you cant hurt that from the lock nut.
Stan Best

There is a ball on the end of the tie rod, that has a threaded cap over it screwed onto the end of the shaft.
There is a spring loaded friction pad, so it can move, and a jam nut staked to the rack.
The tie rod is supposed to rotate.
You can adjust the movement of the tie rod by losening the staked jam nut, then tightening the cap. However, when they wear, tightening it up in the straight out position will make it seize as it bends.

See picture for a sectional view.

(Yes I love the add pictures feature!)

Martin Layton

So that sounds like I will be better off putting one pipe wrench on the tie rod end (ball joint) and the other on the jam nut. Holding the ball joint steady, I can apply pressure to the wrench on the jam nut. If the tie rod turns in the rack assembly I will not do any harm on that end, correct? I will give it a try again this weekend and see how it goes. I will see if I can get the car up high enough to get good leverage.

This old back and arms are not as strong as they used to be.

Thanks,
John Fraioli
John F

Yes, you got it. Its pretty normal to hold the track rod with something like mole grips to break out the lock nut. Once you have done this you can put some copper grease on all mating surfaces and skim thru this next time. There was athread year or so back about OE v Moss boots, I replaced my OE with OE about 2 years ago, until them they had AFAIK never been touched
Stan Best

This thread was discussed between 17/06/2007 and 19/06/2007

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