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MG MGB Technical - vin number

hi again all. if someone has the claushager book handy i dont have one, could you confirm what year ghd5 266???g. is.
many thanks bob.
Bob Taylor

Nov/Dec 1971
Chris at Octarine Services

hi chris,
i think i spoke to you personally about this. you say 71, that would be manufacture date--yes. because that would sound right. colour only made 72, rear window dates oct nov dec 72 so that points to a 72 car but v5c says registered sep 70. under that vin number. any ideas.
cheers bob.
Bob Taylor

Bob. "rear window dates oct nov dec 72" means very little as it is a replaceable part. All this might indicate is that the window was replaced at some point.

As for being registered in "sep 70" on the government document, is it possible that the clerk filling out the document hit the wrong typewriter key and neither the clerk nor the new owner caught the fact? I find a typographical error, made by a clerk and not caught, to be a far more possible reason for this date than the concept of the factory using a production number out of sequence, more than a year before it was due to be used, and sending the car out with that incorrect number.

The fact that a color was only available "colour only made 72" not greatly significant considering the build dates that Chris has noted. The US used "model years" with a new style of vehicle being introduced for the beginning of each model year. These, commonly started about October, sometimes earlier. The Brits did not use the model year concept, as a general usage. Cars having most of their production sold in the US, such as MG, were forced to adopt the model year concept when the US government (which has also been known to make mistakes) adopted its series of "safety and environment" regulations concerning automobiles. This began in 1966 with the 1967 model year the first year to have emissions controls required. Requirements, in both emissions controls and safety equipment, became increasingly more restrictive throughout the 1960's and 1970's. Thus, the model year concept was forced on the car makers who used the US as their main market and MG was one of these makers.

Thus, it is quite possible that your car, made at the end of 1971, could have a paint color, or other features, associated with the 1972 cars because, under the commonly used US system, it was a "1972 model vehicle" for emissions/safety requirements.

If it is possible to come up with some other forms of documentation regarding the initial registration date it might be worth while to do some research. I do not know what forms of vehicle paper work would be required in the UK at that time. Here in the US, there would be a bill of sale (if sold by a dealer) or some form of sales document, the vehicle title (ownership document) and vehicle registration (license plate document) as a minimum. There might also be a recording of any financing on the vehicle and the title would reflect that their was a lien against the vehicle until the load was paid off. The title would have some form of indication noting when the lien was paid off. All of these might be useful in indicating when your vehicle was actually sold and registered.

Les
Les Bengtson

Bob

Lots of the parts where dated so have a look at things like door locks and latches ,wiper motor which will always be on or earlier than the car 11 70 or some thing like that but if it says 72 on it its too much of a coincedence.

Ste
Ste Brown

Les is right. The "model year" in the US starts in October. Any vehicles manufactured after Oct 1 would be the model year of the year following. So, a November 1971 build date would be a 1972 model year vehicle. Due to shipping times, etc., most importers to the States might start their model year production as early as August or September of the preceding year.

Simple, isn't it?
John Z

Once 'model year' started it was applicable to both UK and US cars, even though the concept may well have originated in America. Having different model year boundaries for different markets would have been way too complicated, the physical differences were bad enough! Dec 71 is 72 model year (which started in August) hence would have that years colours and features. The V5 must be in error, it's not unknown, especially with the transfer from paper records to computer. But the original registration letter (if it has one) would be the final arbiter:

H ran from 1st Aug 69 to 31st Jul 70
J ran from 1st Aug 70 to 31st Jul 71
K ran from 1st Aug 71 to 31st Jul 72
etc.

Given the chassis number and apparent build date yours must be a K or later, Sep 70 would have a J. They would never allocate a K registration to an earlier year, making a car seem younger than it actually is is illegal.
Paul Hunt

hi paul.
mine is a (J). i have all log book copys from dvla and from new it was a private plate.xap 82. this was taken off in 94 and was given h129 agc. this was a mistake so they then gave it the reg its got now.i have copy of original log when 1st registered and its got 18.9.1970 and chassis no ghd5 266???g. dosnt make sense.
Bob Taylor

In September 70 (71 model year) they were producing chassis numbers around 221000. There were some oddities in sequencing, but not over 12 months worth from anything I have read.

Changes for 72 model year were engine 18V581/582/583, horn push with red MG badge, handbrake handle cranked away from tunnel, fresh-air vents in dash, tunnel console between seats with ashtray and armrest, door liners with twin 'chrome' strips, amongst other things. All changeable of course, with varying levels of difficulty. The handbrake handle is probably the least likely to have been changed in a restoration. What are the dates on the rest of the glass? (http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/wn_miscframe.htm and click on 'What Year'?)

Originally having a non-age related plate then subsequently getting one has potential for error, but a good copy of a genuine original log book should be accurate. Is your copy of the log book when first registered from the owner or from the DVLA? If the latter I'd suspect that. Unfortunately it still leaves a fraudulent chassis number plate i.e. a ringer as an option.

Abingdon recorded commission numbers until April 71, and body numbers until some time in 1972, so both these should be available from BMIHT. If you don't want to spend £37 on a full certificate, if you write and give them all three numbers plus the engine number and describe your conundrum they may well confirm if they match for nothing.
Paul Hunt

This thread was discussed between 10/04/2009 and 12/04/2009

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