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MG MGF Technical - Clunking Noise please help me!!!!

Dont know if you remember us we have the amaranth mgf no 72 off the production line???? I have a question and dont know anyone who can help. I have had a subframe clunking noise for some time now, it seems to be coming from the front near side. This corner has a new wishbone and ball-joints and bearing, also to try and cure it i have just put the solid subframe mounts off the tf on it and the noise is still there and it seems to be on suspension flex when it does it, ie when you go over a sharp bump in the road, or when the suspension is on full flex diagonally! I am lost! is there anyone you know who has had this problem or heard of it??? I know i have one of the oldest f's!!!

Rick
Rick Earle

Woohoo ! #72 :))
No I can't recall. Anyway, great to seeing you.

Difficult to say waht your lovely has. We had many of strange noise threads with almost different reasons.

Looking on your report of already changed parts, I think the steering rack is another. Wherein, troubles there would cause also other remarkble strange behavior of the steering.

Another idea. The dampers, did you check the top fixture for loose bolt or lack of tightening.

May be it's bodywork related. Have a look to this crrent thread.
http://www2.mgcars.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=mgbbs&mode=thread&access=2&subject=69&source=T&thread=2005080913335126698

Regards
Dieter
Dieter

>> amaranth mgf no 72 <<

Woo - Rick, what is your car's registration? Not N xxx SVC is it? Sounds very much like it could be one of the press release cars (N804 SVC is #68)

Regarding the noise, it could be a number of things. It could be the cross member squeaking (if the noise is coming from behind the dash). It could be the ARB knocking about. I assume that the ball joints etc are in good order Rick?
Rob Bell

. 818-.., from August 3rd
:)
They where 14 of Amaranth, when remember correct.
Dieter

Rob, Dieter,

We met up with Rick at the Longbridge Centenary event. He has Vin 323 i.e. 72nd production car - not a press car. However, this makes Rick's car the oldest production car that we know about. Rick's therefore hoping to claim that prize at the MGF 10th Birthday celebrations at Gaydon on October 16th .... unless anyone reading this comes up with an earlier car ;-)

Talking of the press cars - of the 30 cars (N801-N830) we know who owns N803, N804, N819, N826 and N827, but that's all. If anyone knows about any of the others please let me know. Dieter, I'll email you what we know so far.

And, if anyone reading this hasn't heard of the biggest MGF event of the year - see
http://www.mgcars.org.uk/runnymede-mgoc/mgpitfiles/sef/milestones/10th%20front.htm



Dave Livingstone

Cheers lads keep coming up with ideas i am off on sunday for 5 days thank god so i will be playing with the dampers first as my friend has a tvr griffith 500 and he had similar noise (he is a mechanic and car dealer) he said that it was broken dampers and has told me how to check them. other than that i will be putting it on his ramps in the garage to have a look underneath failing it being the shocks!!!!!!!
Rick Earle

I have an intermittent suspension knock on my 99F. I am working on a 96F at the moment that has an L shaped spacer/washer between the lower arm pivot(maybe both?) and the subframe. Same on the rear suspension. The 99F does not have them fitted. I wonder if longitudinal play at the bearing on the lower arm may allow the arm to move or maybe the bolt is just not tight enough, more likely I think.
Rick do have the washers fitted does anyone else have these L shaped washers fitted or is this car unique?
Ken Waring

And yes both Li, and myself are after the birthday cake at MGf 10 this year!!!!!!!! so need the car sorted as am having to result to borrowing police cars at the tax payers expense at the mo!!!!!! They have just knocked us down from 1.9TD astras to 1.7TDs what ever next! they are supposed to be 'response cars' not much response if you ask me!!!!!
Rick Earle

Ken,

What washers are you talking about as i do not understand where you mean, wishbone end??? everything on that corner has now been played with bar the dampers i put the tf subframe mounts on it tonight this has changed the tone of te noise, anyone had the antiroll bar bushes go, any experience of this noise???? another possibility im told
Rick Earle

Rick,

Ken reffers to the subframe mounted side of the front lower arm.
Bearings:
- Ball joint at the hub
- two of rubber-metal bearings in holes at the subframe.
This bearings (total widht from outer measures) has of course tolerances and the clearance got removed with the mentioned thin _washers with grip_.
(U-shape sheet metal with rectangular _grip_)
Notice, tha cabin side bolt head of the inner bearing is unavailable unless you lower the subframe at the cabin side.

Does this make sense ?
Err, I'll see if I can back with a picture :)
Dieter

.. me was fast ;-)

http://www.mgfcar.de/suspension_knuckle/hanah_pulled_lower_part.jpg

Hard to see, but this spacer can be seen on the left. Just when you look to the _end_ of the yellow part (painted caliper)


#17 p/n KYF100240 - Spacer
on http://www.mgfcar.de/epc/422.htm
It looks a little _lost_ there (EPC crappy entry)

In truth it should be here:
http://www.mgfcar.de/epc/273.htm
@ the LH or RH of bushes #5 or #6

Will correct this later on my site.
Dieter

still not ready with it.

This spacers got introduced with VIN AD506
Two of to each side and also two of to the rear big lower arm bush.

Ready now.
HTH
:o)
Dieter

Dieter, thanks for taking the time to help!

I thought that it was some sort of mounting for something else i still have one on the lower arm but having taken it off when doing the wishbone it is very flimsy metal, what does this part do exactly, anyone know????
Rick Earle

The spacer.........i definately only have one on that corner should there be two???? anyone know, as the diagrams show two but looked at the two f's in my friends showroom neither have any spacer on the lower arm.

(Both f's have just suffered HGF he he :) and one has only done 12'000 on 51 plate, my friend states that he has the ancient art of MGF head gasket replacement down to a fine art and recons on a good day can do in two hours providing head is ok!!)
Rick Earle

Dieter to the rescue, that's what I meant. I guess they just take out the tolerance space between the subframe and the bush insert. Interesting that the spacers on the 96F front suspension are fitted at front piovot only. Hey that means we have wheel offset adustment on the F. :-))
One thing is for sure if a washer/spacer is required and it's not there then movement can occur with a resulting knock. If it can happen it will.
Ken Waring

RE: Dave
>. 818-.., from August 3rd
>They where 14 of Amaranth, when remember correct.

Boohoo, got misled. Apology.
VIN 323. September, 5th then.

Mind you on VIN 278 from Dave Mottram (Australia)
Though, I think he woun't take the advantage with the 10th anniversary invitation with his car ;)

btw, reg plates NxxxSVC got provided also for some later cars until VIN 288.
Will supply the data by email in next week.

N830SVC > VIN 252
N809SVC > VIN 253
N815SVC > VIN 263
N821SVC > VIN 286
N814SVC > VIN 288
...................
total of 30 is correct

---------------------

Back to the spacer.
I don't think the spacer is a vital part to add. It's measure is below 1mm when I recall right from an earlier DIY of PU bush installation.

I think they put in one OR two in the production line, depending on needs.
Suppose it's to get the car stable on higher speed. So I've daubts that knocking noise could appear from there.

ARB links and bushes to the subframe or damper upper fixture.
My few pence on it.
Dieter

Dear Rick,

Had the same thing in my 2003 TF 160. Turned out to be a bent front subframe, not, I hasten to add, bent by me!
Took it to a dealer and the THIRD one from MGR was manufactured straight and put on my car: it stopped the clunking.
Dunno if F/TF front suspension are the same, but can give you lots more info if you need it?

Timmeh
Timmeh

Just had the car in the air again and found that there is play between all of the damper tubes ie they play in the middle going to bite the bullet again and order the gaz ones i think as they are cheap and adjustable and i have just spent a fortune on the car sorcing the problem!!!!!
Rick Earle

Timmeh, the TF and F subframes are similar, but not the same. The greatest difference is in the turrets that hold the coil over spring units on the TF; the F uses hydragas spheres.
Rob Bell

Rick, fingers crossed the dampers will solve the problem for you.
Rob Bell

I think that my car #278 (the 27th production car) still lays claim to be the earliest known to this BBS. Presumably other pre-production prototypes are known to still exist if I remember correctly from our previous thread on this matter.

Regarding my pathetic engine power, I have just finished my 4/2/1 extractors and quad throttle body so hopefully within the next month or so I will be able to report improved power!
d mottram

Fingers crossed David - as you say, the last set of results were barely believable :o(

Regarding the prototypes, yes, we know of a few :o)
Rob Bell

Hi David,

Re - earliest production model (i.e. after VIN 251) - you still are the earliest we know of :-) If you can get to Gaydon by October 16th (set sail now!) then you'll win the prize at the MGF birthday celebration - otherwise Rick is still odds on favourite :-)

Pre-production models (i.e. before VIN 251) - as Rob says there are a number known including one designated as a 'Special Development Vehicle' and listed by the DVLA as a Rover 3500 Sports!

Re Press Cars - it does seem, as Dieter says, that these were drawn from the first 500 cars built - meaning that they are a mix of 'pre-production' with VINs < 251 and 'production' with VINs > 251. Martin Cox was the MGR employee who picked out these 30 cars.

The MGF Cup cars were also drawn from this first 500. Roy Ford was the MGR employee who picked out these 35. Other cars from this first 500 went to France as Rally cars. Some were used for experimentation and crash testing.

Much of the above information is provided courtesy of Roy Ford.
Dave Livingstone

Dave, and some like mine went to Japan for the MG Race series there, before my purchasing it for racing in Australia.
d mottram

>>Dave, and some like mine went to Japan for the MG Race series there, before my purchasing it for racing in Australia.

Yes, as you know it was Roy that was involved with getting the Japanese cars ready. I must check with him to find out how many went to Japan and then how many went on to be UK cup cars. We must start to build the list of Cup cars and their VINs.
Dave Livingstone

Dave, do the UK MGF Cup cars have chassis numbers?

And if they do, how do we handle the reasonable number of those will have been rebodied at some time...

[The UK Cup cars were specially built by Mayflower specifically for the race series, with a number of unnecessary mounting brackets etc deleted.]
Rob Bell

Dave (M), I must pop down and see how your efforts are going with the upgrade and how can you miss out on this chance to be part of MGF history?
(I reckon I could fit into the boot if you are going to take your car over to the UK. lol.)

Dave (L) It would be a good opportunity to meet up with you guys if I did stow away!!

Cheers.
Branko
Branko

Good questions Rob - something we need to clear up with Roy. I must admit I've tended to think of all of the 'Cup/Trophy' cars as being the same, rather than separate Japan/UK builds.

Hi Branko - it would be great to see you over here. However, I fear you might get a bit hungry whilst stowing away in Dave's boot!
Dave Livingstone

OK, to continue the off-topic bit of this thread (sorry Rick) - the UK Cup cars were built from the specially built Mayflower bodies on the standard Longbridge production line, but monitored by Roy in batches of four or five as the 'delete' list was applied to the build. He literally walked down the line with them! They will carry VIN numbers in the 30,000 range.
Dave Livingstone

I am loosing patience today with the f spent all day tightening nuts and wiggling bits only things that have play on the front end are the shockers.

to top my weekend off spent trying to locate this noise, i have:- a) lost the locking wheel nut key, b)the alt belt snapped (which i cannot now get to as i cant get the wheels off) and c)after cleaning the piper x filter it keeps falling off the throttle!!!! going to drown my sorrows now before i break anything else!!!!

Tomorrow:- GAZ shockers will be here, (and my new locking wheel nut key!!!!)

I will update if this does/does not solve the problem!!!

Will be praying to the god of 'random annoying noise' that it does!
Rick Earle

Oh no! Sorry to hear about that Rick - I kinda know the feeling. Actually, I think that anyone who has ever worked on a car knows that feeling! ROFL

BTW regarding the snapped fan belt - just make sure that any belt debris hasn't got anywhere it shouldn't have - particularly important to check is the cambelt area...

Good luck - hope you are pleased with the new dampers :o)
Rob Bell

What about the Anti-roll bar bushes or drop links. They can break giving rise to an intermittent knocking.
Steve Ratledge

To all those who helped, a big thank you, the noise has not completely gone, BUT, is has nearly the ride is awesome compared to what it was, i only have them set on 8 clics out of 30, one of the top mounts had fused to the body and the top washer took 15 minutes of blow torch and maleting to get it out!!! All of the bushes on the old shockers ad gone so not a bad move anyway!!!

Steve, I have noticed that one of the centre front roll bar mounts has been dented(prob my doing)going to put new bushes on front and rear next and bend mount back into place!!!

Ready for the red eye run now if i can get the night off!!!!

Once again thankyou all

Rick and Li
Rick Earle

This thread was discussed between 11/08/2005 and 16/08/2005

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