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MG MGF Technical DEI 530T window module (one touch etc.) BBS discussion at MG-Cars.info
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MG MGF Technical - DEI 530T window module (one touch etc.)
| Well, I've finally received these modules I ordered some weeks ago (Erik, contact me... I plan to fit it on saturday on my F, along with a friend on his F at the same time. If you want to join us, you're welcome !) They are apparently the last evolution of the 530T, with microswitches to select the type of window control (positive, negative, ...) and adjust the mechanical resistance of the window (to also provide some kind of obstruction detection). First question : the 530T needs a "ground when armed" wire from the ECU (in order to perform the auto-close function). Is there such a wire ? Maybe Purple-White wire between alarm ECU and Multi-Function Unit ? Or using browN-pinK wire (between alarm ECU and superlock motor superlock) with a relay to provide this "ground when armed" signal to the 530T... Second question : I guess I'll have to do "Carl's trick" to get a +12V power supply to operate the window motors after the ignition is switched off... Or maybe use a +12V constant power supply (clock, radio, ....) ; but would these handle the current ?? (the manual says a 20A fused positive supply) I hope some of you know the answers... Fabrice |
| Fabrice |
| The brown-pink wire would be my bet Fabrice - it may actually go to ground when the superlock is armed? This would negate the need for a relay. Would be sensible to guard your window ECU with a diode though... >>Second question : I guess I'll have to do "Carl's trick" to get a +12V power supply to operate the window motors after the ignition is switched off... Or maybe use a +12V constant power supply (clock, radio, ....) ; but would these handle the current ?? (the manual says a 20A fused positive supply)<< You could use Carl's circuit - but I don't think that this is rated at 20A. You might want to use it to drive a relay with a always-live 20A feed. Take this feed from the live window circuit (IIRC is 20A? Slate grey/green?) Sounds like a question for our resident electronics expert, Will... |
| Rob Bell |
| >to use it to drive a relay with a always-live 20A feed. Would underline. Did so at my old, plus *flying* fuse of course. Power delay is at http://www.mgfcar.de/power_delay_by_carl/ I remember there was an easier way without using Diodes. *g I forgot updating the site... Errr... Suggestion came from Bruce ? |
| Dieter K. |
| Dieter, I found your post in the Archive : >>>> Bruce, I think it's time now to introduce the easier 'Bruce-Power-Delay-Solution' and Rob can leave out the diodes :) -- cut from Bruce Email--- ..would it not be easier to simply remove the Light Green (LG) wire from the Window Lift Relay and connect a wire from the Brown/Pink on the MEMS Relay Unit in its place? The Light Green wire could then be isolated with insulation tape. In this way, no diodes would be required. Why use two supplies for the relay when one would do? The Window Lift Relay would then be powered by the current from the MEMS unit alone. -- end ---- :o) Seams to work, does it ? <<<<<<<<<< |
| Fabrice |
| Just sent you an e-mail Fabrice. Thanks, |
| Erik |
| I remember that mod well Dieter! ;o) I'm going with the diode solution though :o) |
| Rob Bell |
| I think this is what I'll do : like Bruce, replace LightGreen wire from the window-lift relay with browN/pinK (from MEMS relay using the unused blUe/Yellow from airco), so that the window-lift relay will power the window switches after ignition is switched off. This is not stricto sensu required for the DEI 530T installation, but this will add some comfort. For the +12V constant power supply (20 Amp) required by the DEI 530T, I'll use the browN wire from the window-lift relay (this wire is the "power input"). It comes from the under bonnet fusebox (30 Amp "link 3"). I don't think I must add a 20A fuse, since there is already the 30A fuse.... ? Some other things I need to know : Where is located the alarm ECU ? I think it is behind the T-Bar ? And the MultiFunction Unit ? I also think about another feature : turning the interior lights on when the doors are unlocked... I suppose a relay controlled by a wire from the door assy motor, in parallel or serial with one of the door switches would do the trick... Any comments ? wire colours ? Fabrice |
| Fabrice |
| Rob, is there a problem with Bruce mod ? should a diode be added ? |
| Fabrice |
| Fabrice, actually I don't think that there is a problem with Bruce's modification - it should be fine. IIRC the idea behind the diode was to prevent an EMP returning to the MEMS from the relay. Adding a diode won't cause problems, and seems like a sensible precaution. :o) >>For the +12V constant power supply (20 Amp) required by the DEI 530T, I'll use the browN wire from the window-lift relay (this wire is the "power input"). It comes from the under bonnet fusebox (30 Amp "link 3").<< Just had a look at the wiring diagram. Yes, I agree with you - the best option is that BowN wire from link 3 IMO. :o) Regarding the fuse, perhaps a 20A in-line fuse might be sensible just before the DEI 530T - this is to protect the DEI, so relying solely on the link3 30A fuse could mean that the unit could burn-out before the fuse went... The alarm ECU - the Lucas 5AS imobiliser, is located in the dash, as is the MFU. Will have to check my workshop manual to see if there are any pix of the actual locations... |
| Rob Bell |
| Fabrice, the alarm ECU is bolted to the underside of the heater control box (i.e. behind that condom tray thing ;o)) The MFU *I think* is located in/near/behind the fusebox, but I am struggling to find any reference to it in the workshop manual... ! |
| Rob Bell |
| Thanks Rob ! I'll play safe ans will then put a diode inline with browN-pinK and a 20A fuse inline with browN wires... Does the centenr console need to be removed to access the alarm ECU ? IMO just removing the footwell light panels should be OK ... |
| Fabrice |
| >Seams to work, does it ? It works like Bruce said without Diodes. Was confirmed by Carl later in an Email. MFU is the red case at the rear of the fuse panel. http://www.mgfcar.de/MFU/index.htm Alarm ECU below the heater control assy. http://www.mgfcar.de/alarm_blipper/eblipper.htm http://www.mgfcar.de/alarm_blipper/immobiliser.html > IMO just removing the footwell light panels should be OK ... Yep, should give access to both connectors. See the pix above. Removing is impossible without dismanteling the geater control assy and centre console of course. btw press on the connector clamp bracket to release and the pull off. |
| Dieter K. |
| Thanks Dieter ! I even saw at the MFU connector the Purple-White wire that I want to test... browN-pinK at the alarm ECU white connector is also spotted ;o) |
| Fabrice |
| -update- we fitted our DEI530T this saturday. We even took some pictures if someone is interrested. Unfortunately, I couldn't find a wire providing a "ground when alarm armed" signal. I'll have to dig a bit deeper, or use a relay. FYI, the browN-pinK wire (superlock motor) doesn't rest at ground, it's just a pulse... (it's similar to the windows motors) I also did "Carl's mod" and this is something I recommend ! it's easy and quick. I'm still not sure, but on my car, the power signal from MEMS does seem to never stop... annoying 'cos the windows can be operated all the time ! Is this signal supposed to come back if the car is unlocked or if a door is opened ? A voltmetre showed that my friend's F has a normal behaviour in the regard : the +12V stays there for 2-3 min or so after the ignition is switched off, and then goes to 0. Apart from that, the one-touch operation windows up & down works fine and it's an improvement over the standard set-up, esp. considering the slow operation of the F's windows. |
| Fabrice |
| >>I'm still not sure, but on my car, the power signal from MEMS does seem to never stop... annoying 'cos the windows can be operated all the time !<< This signal can last up to 15 minutes Fabrice. Might be worth timing it. >> FYI, the browN-pinK wire (superlock motor) doesn't rest at ground, it's just a pulse... (it's similar to the windows motors)<< Interesting and useful information Fabrice, thanks. :o) How long a +12V pulse is it? Sounds as though you will need a relay or some other form of switching arrangement. I presume that for unlocking the 'superlock' there is a -12V pulse? |
| Rob Bell |
| Yes Rob, the MEMS signal is something I will definitely check, Rob. But I still wonder if it's not the 530T that makes the windows operate all the time. I'll check that. The superlock pulse lasts 1 second or so... I admit I was already late for my sister's birthday when I started to look for that "ground when armed" signal, so I only spent 10 min or so... but I'll find something, it's far from Mission Impossible ;o) |
| Fabrice |
| >>I admit I was already late for my sister's birthday when I started to look for that "ground when armed" signal, so I only spent 10 min or so... << LOL Truly a convert to the dark-side!!! Good luck Fabrice - sounds as though you've very nearly cracked the problem; great work :o) |
| Rob Bell |
| Well, I checked today. There's no problem with the MEMS signal, the +12V dissapears after a few minutes. It's the DEI 530T that now powers the window motors, AND also the window switches... what I initially didn't catch. I thought it was just one way (take the signal from the switches). I hope that when I'll wire the alarm to the 530T, it will cut the power to the windows switches when the alarm is armed. Fabrice |
| Fabrice |
| >This signal can last up to 15 minutes Fabrice. Might be worth timing it. I measured once at my old car up to half an hour with cold engine, and warm engine down to 3 minutes. ECU temperature related though. :) Keep us posted ! Cheers Dieter |
| Dieter K. |
| Fabrice, does the other unit you installed function in the same way? ie do the windows remain live even after the ignition is killed? I think you are right, you need to provide the alarm signal. One observation: if it is the window module that is providing power to the windows, even with the ignition off, it sounds as though you had no need for Carl's delayed power-off? |
| Rob Bell |
| Just found this thread. - Bruce Mod? Can confirm that doing Carl's Mod and leaving out the diodes as I suggested has had no detrimental affect to my car since I did the mod ages ago. Bruce |
| Bruce Caldwell |
| I'll ask my friend tonight, but maybe he hasn't noticed so far... I've re-read the installation manual and now I have some doubt about how I wired the module :o) I'll check that ASAP ! |
| Fabrice |
| Oh the joys of automotive electrics! LOL Hope that you get this sorted soon Fabrice - and if you have many pix of the installation process, then I'd love to have a copy of them! :o) |
| Rob Bell |
| I should have read the instructions carefully before ;o) Well, it's sorted now. The power to the switches is delayed by the ECU output to the relay... Last thing is to find a "ground when alarm armed" output. My bet now may be the pink wire to the superlock (and lock) motors ?? Yes Rob, we took several pictures during the process... I first need to get them from my mate, and then I can pass them to you, with some tips. (Also took one of the R820 airbox as you asked) |
| Fabrice |
| Haven't measured these Fabrice but try the Black/Orange or Black/Red or Black/Pink on the door lock circuit for a Ground When Armed. Bruce |
| Bruce Caldwell |
| Thanks Bruce, will check. Aren't these the wires for the driver's door keylock ? I'd thought they were independant of the alarm state... ? |
| Fabrice |
| In my quest for the "magic wire", I check and re-checked some wires from the alarm ECU, and Bruce was right, there is one that goes to ground when the alarm is armed, it's the Black-Orange. The problem is that apart from that, this wire rests at +4/5V. So when I wire it to the windows automation module, the windows are rolling up all the time :-( |
| Fabrice |
| Wouldn't a diode solve this problem Fabrice? |
| Rob Bell |
| I remember how a diode works (the voltage/current curve), but I don't know if this will solve my problem... I'm not especially skilled and experienced in electronics, I prefer mechanics ;o) |
| Fabrice |
| As a diode will only allow current flow in one direction, it will prevent the +5V potential from reaching the DEI. Once the line goes to ground - the current flow will be in the opposite direction from the DEI to ground - and this will be allowed. From my understanding of the problem as you've described it Fabrice, this should work - but there are plenty of folks here who know a whole load more about electronics than me!!! Cue Bruce!!! :o) |
| Rob Bell |
| Final update ! I soldered a diode inline and it did the trick : the windows roll up when I lock the car. Well done for the advice, Rob ;o) Now I only have to sort the pictures I took aned write some text about the installation tips. Fabrice PS : Erik, about bringing your DEI module to you, I'm still undecided between the MG Kempenrit and the Eupen triathlon on August 3rd... I'll let you know. |
| Fabrice |
| Great work Fabrice! :o) Lok forward to seeing how you finally installed the kit :o) |
| Rob Bell |
This thread was discussed between 03/07/2003 and 23/07/2003
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