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MG MGF Technical - Head Gasget

My son purchased a 2002 MG TF in May this year with 38,000 kilometers on the clock. Just recently the head gasget gave way with the result the coolant went into the oil and vice versa. The mechanics at Landrover Southport Queensland indicated that this is about the time the head gasget goes as there is a problem with some plastic parts incorporated in or holds the gasget to the head. One would think that with this type of problem that a recall would have been instituted to fix this well known fault instead of waiting for some innocent party to find out that it will cost about $2000 to fix.

Has anyone any info on this matter and any way of finding out how bad this problem is.

I have sent an email to the distributors of the MG TF in Australia hopfully I will get an answer .

T.Crandon
T Crandon

I imagine the "plastic parts" you refer to are the cylinder head locating dowels.

However as far as I know ALL model F/TFs came with steel ones to replace the plastic from MY2000 onwards so your Sons TF will allready have them fitted!..

Also these locating dowels are NOT a cure for HGF, so I doubt very much if this was the cause.

For some reason 02 model TFs appear even more prone to HGF than normal, perhaps due to Cost cutting measures MG-R introduced around this time called "Project Drive".
G. M Leonard

G. M Leonard, Cheshire, United Kingdom

Thanks for the early response, I do recall the mechanic mentioning "dowels". He also mentioned that they have upgraded the head gasket. I suppose my son will find out in the near future. He has not as yet recieved a quote for the work only a ball park figure.
The cost depends on the state of the hoses also.

Whatever, it is going to be an expensive lesson, he has only had the vehicle for a month, bought privately.

Once again thanks for the info.

Tony
T Crandon

there is loads in the archives about HGF (Head Gasket Failure). Although some here reject the notion that this happens often the reports here indicate otherwise. Do a search in the MGF section for HGF as see the results. When you have done your search and read the postings you should note that you should ensure the air is bled out of the system correctly, if not then HGF could occur again. Maybe you should also consider getting the cam belt changes whilst the engine is stripped down too. Some look at the problem that it is just one of those things!
Hopefully you'll get a reply from the importers but don’t hold your breath. Since Rover went into administration loads of companies have fallen by the wayside, including importers.
There are many upgrades to help prevent HGF, not all seemingly work but again you will read this in your research on this forum.

Good luck with your repairs.
Cecil Kimber

Cecil Kimber, Lugo Galicia.....Spain

Thankyou for your input I will do as you suggest.

Thanks again

Tony
T Crandon

There are an increasing number of reports of recently purchased secondhand 'F's and 'TF's suffering HGFs.
This must raise a question as what would you do if your car suddenly used a little more water ??. Would you take a bucket of money to your mechanic, or sell it ??
As the car residual values drop, and the cost of fixing a HGF increases, then the latter must look more attractive.
Any MGF should have the coolant level checked weekly and any top up amount recorded. A newly purchased car may have this done more frquently, even to daily if any top up is needed. This must be done under the same conditions each time viz. cold engine, car level.
In UK, and probably Aus as well, a Private sale is 'As Seen', with no comeback on the seller. A Dealer purchase is covered by the Sale of Goods Act and it must be 'Fit for purpose' but the history of HGFs may make this difficult to argue. A 12 Month Repair warranty arranged by the Dealer included in the Purchase price should be secure as then the Dealer and ,if involved, any hire purchase Company have dual responsibility.
Geoff F.
G. Farthing

Tony, what year is your son's TF? I suspect that it will be a 2003 or earlier.

ALL TFs use metal head locating dowels - as these became standardised in circa 2001.

Later TFs use the pressure relief thermostat (PRT), which many regard as the saviour of the engine. It is well worth considering fitting one of these to your son's car for piece of mind.

The head gasket can fail in a number of different ways - often the elastomeric seal detatches from the gasket leading to failure. The latest LandRover MultiLayer Steel gasket (to be fitted with an uprated oil rail) over comes this particular mode of failure to a large extent - and is certainly worth considering.

Hope you can find an affordable solution to this problem - and certainly AUS$2000 seems excessive in any case...
Rob Bell

To all the contributers whereever you are and for all the information supplied my son and I thankyou.

We picked his car upto day Thursday 20/7/06 at a cost of $2,485.25, all of the costings were explained with over half being labour. He also receives a 12 months waranty with the repairs.

They described how they completed bleeding the system and road tested it for a day and all was well. They also changed a couple of hoses and a fan belt also doing a service, which I assume they needed to do under the circumstances.

So he is back to square one minus the cost. But all in all he loves the car and hopefully he will now have a long future of happy motoring.Once again thankyou all for the assistance and advice.

He will now stay in touch with the website and learn a little more about the car he bought.

Thank you

Tony Crandon
Tony Crandon

Tony, My HGF happened within four weeks of ownership, that was almost four ( fun filled ) years ago. Other than directing my car to the dark side the only costs have been for routine service items and dollar per KM this has been a pleasing experience. So I hope your son forgets this hicup and enjoys his TF.
Andrew Regens

Got a HGF on a well looked after 2000 MGF. Took it to my local dealer who quoted a "worse case scenario" cost of 1,400 euro to fix. Seemed expensive but I agreed....
Head was skimmed and gasket replaced but upon pressure testing the garage called and said I also needed a new radiator, water pump and timing belt which is bumping up the cost of repair to over 2,000 euro!!!

Am I being ripped off here?......
Darragh

Darragh.
2,000 euros, around £1400 IS expensive, but....

Is it a main stealer or an independant who is doing the work??..

To give you some idea my TF 160 had the HG replaced a few months before I got it, repair was done by (ex) MG-R dealer and the bill was nearly £1100!!.
So based on the above £1400 sounds about right for main dealer prices with extrs work involved, however I would think a decent independant could do all the above for around the £1K mark or less.
G. M Leonard

The significant part of that bill will be labour Darragh - and yes it is expensive, but you've had quite a lot of work carried out, so it looks proportionate. The only "cheap" gasket failure is the one you've caught early, hasn't caused any other damage, and you've replaced yourself. Then all we're talking about is the cost of a new gasket set, some coolant and other minor sundries.
Rob Bell

Thanks for your advice.
The only prob I have is that they called AFTER replacing the gasket and advised I needed a new raditor. Surely if the radiator was in such bad shape that it couldnt be repaired rather than replaced they could have told that when they looked at it to give me the original quote?

Again thanks for your help.
This site is invaluable for MGF owners.....
D
Darragh

Darragh.

I doubt very much any garage would repair a radiator, its easier and safer to replace, more so on the K-Series!.

Why did the garage say it needed replacement, ie leaking?, or blocked?.

Perhaps due to the extended plumbing systems on our cars radiators appear to fail sooner that on most front engined cars, as a rule through blockages, sludge etc rather than leaks!.
5-6 years is about the average, so this fits with the year of your car!.

Even a partial blockage on the radiator could lead to overheating problems and a further HGF, sadly its yet another expense on your allready considerable bill, but better to replace now than risk another possible HGF......... and I dont need to remind you what that can cost!!!.. :o(

G. M Leonard

Cheers G.M...

They just said the coolant system was losing pressure through the radiator.And advised it would be another 500 euro to replace......
D
Darragh

That's a lot of money for a radiator?! I am sure that 3-400 euro would be more reasonable; the radiator is reasonably easy to get to, and are readily available (many advise fitting alloy TF radiators as a replacement anyway).

If the radiator has gone, also pay careful attention to the under body coolant pipes - these can rot out too - especially around the areas adjacent to the mounting brackets...
Rob Bell

This thread was discussed between 15/07/2006 and 27/07/2006

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