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MG MGF Technical - Just another statistic ?

Had my worst nightmare last night.

Driving along and suddenly bellows of steam coming out of the engine vents! Saw it quickly and immediately pulled over and stopped.

Got the engine cover off and had a good look. Had lost approx an inch of coolant from the header tank, no mayo on dipstick or the round the oil filler caps. Checked the expansion tank lid. Seems ok. Has white dot on it and none of the tell-tale signs of failure and no gunge. Coolant is OAT type and still the same colour no sign of oil.

Could see collant coming out from the engine. Seemed to be jst by the exhaust manifolds and also could see some dripping onto the oil filter.

Called the AA out. They had a look and could see a jet of water coming out of the middle of the engine block about half way down. His suggestion was that a "core plug" had failed. Sound reasonable? He added a can of sealant and this seemed to stop any major loss of coolant. He advised that it was ok to drive but only straight to dealer, which I did and it now is sitting at Preists of Chesham for investigation.

On the journey to Preists all seemed fine although I took it easy and I mean very easy and the temp needle did not move from its usual postion. (Neither did it move when steam first started pouring out).

Question is: is it the dreaded HGF?

My car is a Feb 2001 MPi with 18,500 miles on it.

NB: When I spoke to the garage this morning they were concerned about the AA adding sealant to the cooling system. Could this have done more harm than good and if so will Preists refuse to cover this under warranty and will I then have any come back on the AA?

Many thanks
Billy Bob

What's HGF?

Regards,
MG
Mike Gibson

Head Gasket Failure, for symptoms see above post :-(

Will Munns

Sounds just like mine! Is leak just below Alternator bracket? Extend arms for full reach into dark recesses of pockets to find £500. Good luck.
T Green

Unfortunately, I agree with Will. Front right corner over the alternator is the typical place for the gasket to fail to the outside. No evidence of mayo usually occurs with this sort of failure. :o((

The 'rad-weld' that the AA used may not have been a great idea either. Would have been better for them to tow you to the garage.

At least this is a warranty job BB.

Ask your dealer about the new thermostat being fitted to new K-series. It's pressure and temperature sensitive - and has been designed to counter the HGF problem (first heard of these being fitted to the K-series in Landrover Freelanders).

Bad news, sorry. :o(
Rob Bell

Yep hope it will be warranty.

I thought as much. Isn't it a tad unusual for as late a model as this to get HGF?

Thanks Rob, Will, T.

I did mention the rad weld thing to the AA. He said he had to try this as the only way to get a relay is if raodside repairs had failed!!! Chimps! Maybe worse than some MGR techs! lol.

Dealer is ringing this afternoon once they have had a look. Will let you know.

Bummer is being without my baby. Going to Nottingham on Monday, work - have to borrow my sisters old Polo I suppose. No PAS, no e/w, no support in the seats, and no oommph to the engine either!
Billy Bob

To add insult to injury I had to pay the AA man £12 for the rad weld. :(
Billy Bob

>>Isn't it a tad unusual for as late a model as this to get HGF?<<

Yeah, very. To my knowledge, you have the dubious honour of being the first 2001 owner to have so suffered :o(

If you get confirmation, its time for another entry to the http://www.shame.4mg.com
Rob Bell

David B's F suffered a HGF, his was 2001 model.
Steve

Just heard from the dealer.

Too busy to look at it today, but have been assuered that it is their first job in the morning. Hope so!
Billy Bob


Hi Bob,
sorry to hear about what looks to be a HGF... Could You please make the dealer /technican confirm if Your car has the new gasket and steel dowels when they lift the head. This is important as we all hope for that there will be no (or at least limited) HGF´s with the new setup introduced in production last year .
Please let us know !
PS. And of cours if it is a HGF - be sure You get the latest items and not the old gasket set that´s been on the shelf for ages ...

BR, Carl.
Carl Blom

Just heard from the dealer........It's confirmed as an HGF. Everything covered under warranty.

They haven't lifted the head yet so can't confirm whether it is the old type with nylon dowels or the newer ones or if there has been any other damage, but they're pretty sure it is an "outside" failure and all will be ok. Will let me know when they start it on Tuesday, but will be getting the new type, they don't fit anything else now (ah, relief).

The horrible rad weld is no problem and they say they will be able to flush it all completely out.

Rob: I asked about the new thermostat, but they didn't know anything about any new one, said that the part numbers haven't changed. Do you have any more details esp a part number? (This was the service bloke himself

I'll keep you posted.
Billy Bob

New gaskets started in the summer of 2001, mine was also registered Feb and had the old one.

Regards,

Steve
Steve

>>>>David B's F suffered a HGF, his was 2001 model.

Absolutely right. At 14000 miles. Old HG. Car bought in Holland in April 2001 - so built a bit earlier than that. Dieter has a list of VINs at which the change is thought to have occurred.

Billy bob,

Mine too was replaced under warranty, as was the warped head. Drove just as if nothing had ever happened afterwards!
David Bainbridge

Just a bit of info. Was chatting with a friend of mine from uni who works for Lotus and he was responsible for getting the engines on the new Elise thru some testing.. I will apologise in advance of the sketchy details of this post as I had had a few beers at the time of dicussion, and more importantly more than a few afterwards!
But the jist of the conversation was that the HGF's were improved by the new dowels but the problem not entirely solved. He mentioned the problem came from 'cavitation' and the best bet to avoid it was to use an organic coolant fluid, thou am sure he said he had to test 5 or 6 engines before one passed the test!
Does this ring any bells with anyone?
Richard

I am impressed. Dealer rang. They had a cancellation today and so they whipped mine in and replaced the gasket. Picking it up tomorrow morning. Woohoo!

Blown gasket was the old type - nylon dowels. Have now got the uprated gasket with steel dowels.

Fortunately no damage to cylinders or warping of the head. Simple whip off, replace gasket and refit head.

Cooling system has been flushed and all rad weld crud has been removed. Just hope it has all been bled properly. Time will tell!

This news has really cheered my day up.

David: I hope mine drives as well as yours did after your HGF.

Question: Is there a "bedding in" period for the new gasket? Should I be taking it easy for the first xxx miles and what exactly defines easy less than 3 or 4K revs?
Billy Bob

Great news BB! :o)

>>Rob: I asked about the new thermostat, but they didn't know anything about any new one, said that the part numbers haven't changed. Do you have any more details esp a part number? (This was the service bloke himself<<

This snippet of info came from none other than K-series guru, Dave Andrews. I haven't been able to track down a part number either, unfortunately. :o(

>>Question: Is there a "bedding in" period for the new gasket? Should I be taking it easy for the first xxx miles and what exactly defines easy less than 3 or 4K revs? <<

Gaskets are a non-moving part, so no, no bedding is required :o)

Thanks for the confirmation that yours was one of the last 'old type' gasket sets. Useful bit of info that, cheers :o)

>>But the jist of the conversation was that the HGF's were improved by the new dowels but the problem not entirely solved. He mentioned the problem came from 'cavitation' and the best bet to avoid it was to use an organic coolant fluid<<

No real surprise there, as the fundamental problems haven't been delt with, but I am interested in the comments regarding cavitation. I presume that this occurs at the thermostat?
Rob Bell

Cheers Rob

Huge grin on my face as I think of having a proper (read: manic thrash) drive of her over the weekend! lol
Billy Bob

This thread was discussed between 05/09/2002 and 06/09/2002

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