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MG MGF Technical - MGF Catalytic convertor

Hi I have an MGF (1996) export model here in the USA. It has been perfect for 18 months, this evening on start up the engine was "lumpy" and lost revs/power then regained and drove fine for around 20 -30 mins. On the way home the Cat overheating light came on. I left the car for 30 mins to cool down on re-start engine seemed fine but cat over heating light remained on. I am here in the with no mechanical knowledge etc the local US Army base mechanics are great but have never seen an MGF before! (allegedly there are only 3 in the States?) Can anyone offer any advice as to what they should check or look for or suggest a way ahead.

Many thanks. Elona
E J Davies

Hi Elona,

Welcome to the BBS! You're right, there can't be too many MGFs in the US - although by the sounds of things, MG enthusiasts in Canada are gearing up to start importing cars once they reach their 15th birthday! Also, MGF and TFs were imported south of the boarder into Mexico... Historic vehicle import in the US doesn't apply unless the vehicle concerned is over 25 years old, so another decade to wait before MGFs can be brought into the US under these regs.

None of which is hugely helpful to you of course. What might be is the knowledge that Land Rover Freelander with the KV6 engine was imported state-side - and engine based upon the 4-cylinder K-series in your MGF - which means your local Land Rover dealership will have the equipment to interogate the engine management system on your car if you get stuck. However, whether the software will be active on these "Testbook" devices and the necessary leads/interface are available might be another question - but certainly worth investigating.

Regarding the catalyst over heat system. Yours is a Japanese right-hand drive import - as this is the only market I am aware of that used this feature. The catalyst over-heat is actually a temperature sensitive fuse - so once it is burnt through, that's it. The light is always going to be lit. The good news is that it has no other function, and does not communicate with the engine management system, so unless you have a burning desire to keep this circuit, it can be simply disconnected with no ill-effects. Wiring diagram for this can be found here: http://mgfcar.de/schedules/sb35.jpg

However, the cat overheat is a by-stander for another problem - in this case, a misfire.

You didn't mention which engine you've got - an MPi or VVC?
Rob Bell

Rob,

Thank you for the info. The engine is a standard MPi (I think) I started the car this morning - fired up first turn with no misfires etc cat overheat light is still burning. So was it the misfire that caused the fuse to burn through?
I was considering another drive later today is that wise?
I forgot to mention the car had been idle for over a week prior to starting yesterday.

Thanks again

Elona
E J Davies

The catalyst may have overheated as a consequence of the misfire - and hence caused the 'over heat fuse' to fail - and hence the light.

No MGF sold in any other market had these. In a sense it is safe to ignore. But there was a definite problem before, and this may be worth checking into.

Do we know much about the service history of this particular car? It might be worth getting some simple checks done - and what applies to any US/Japanese/European four cylinder car of the mid 1990s applies to the MGF - so this should help - although interogating the ECU (MEMS1.9 on your car, if it is a 1.8i rather than a VVC) will prove tricky for you or your mechanics, as the system is not OBD2 compliant.

I'd check simple things - condition of the HT leads, the spark plugs, consider replacement of the distributor cap and rotor arm, get the exhaust gas analysed, consider changing the fuel filter etc. The fact that the catalyst appeared to have overheated does seem to suggest that the combustion was running too hot - and therefore probably somewhat lean... And if running lean and/or pinking (premature detonation), then potential engine damage could occur. Hence it is a good idea to get this looked into as a precaution. I suspect that this is nothing too much to worry about, but you don't want to run into expensive bills when some remedial action now might solve the problem cheaply!
Rob Bell

I was going to add - the overheating of the catalyst suggests that un-burnt hydrocarbons reached the catalyst - which in term means that the engine was running rich, or for what ever reason, unburnt fuel reached the catalyst. The misfire was the potential cause for this. But the question is "why the misfire?"
Rob Bell

Rob,

Once again many thanks. I have confirmed that the engine is an MPi. My next question(s)! Can I easily get the correct plugs, air, oil & fuel filters etc here in USA? I was going to have them sent by a friend from UK but he seems to have ignored the request.

Which Rover Freelander engine does mine equate to? Hopefully I can use that to get the basic service items or am I being overly hopeful?

Thanks again

Elona
E J Davies

Rob or anyone else with knowledge of fuel ratings.

I have been consistently using US marked AKI (i think) 89, I have been told that this equates to RON 95.

I can put AKI 91 or AKI 87.

Options?

Thanks again

Elona
E J Davies

Hi Elona,

no AKI87 please. I'd suggest AKI 93 "premium" gasoline.
Your "regular" gasoline with AKI87 is RON 91 to RON92 only.
Btw. What's the VIN of your MGF
Do you own the instruction manual for the MGF ?

Anyway, also reffer to Freelander I, 1.8i, made from 1996 to 2001. Their part numbers are different, though.

MGF p/n are at http://www.mgfcar.de/epc
What's your preferred Land Rover shop in the US ?

Best Regards
Dieter
Dieter

Just looked up, what you should change:

http://www.mgfcar.de/distributor/index.htm
http://www.mgfcar.de/epc/1648.htm
NJD10010 distributor cap
NJE100070 Rotor Arm
NLP100290LG plugs (platinium, last 90k km)
NEC100630 coil (just in case it's broken)

Airfilter
PHE000120 MG Rover (268mm x 108mm x 57mm)
aftermarket
MANN C2774
GFE1141 (old)
PC569 (AC)

Regards
Dieter
Dieter

Rob & Deiter,

I'm confused!

The car has run on US fuel 89 for 18 months without a glitch I researched beforehand and 89 is equivalent to RON 94/95. Fuels available here are 87 (regular), 89 (plus) & 91 (premium). 93 is not readily available and considered a specialist fuel research seems to indicate that it has a RON value of 97/98 surely this too high?

Rob

You seem to indicate that the car may be running lean and then go on to add it is running rich - I'm confused - non mechanically minded female on this side of the Atlantic! Can you simplify please?

Dieter

VIN of vehicle is SARR0WBGBAD000858.

I have the MGF owners handbook and the MGF workshop manual.

I have no preferred Land Rover shop in the US as I have yet to purchase anything for the car - do you recommend one?

Are the part numbers you listed for MGF or Freelander? - confused again. I am happy to replace parts but need to do it the easiest, quickest and most understandable way in the USA. I am confused (again) How I get MGF parts here? Or do I need to buy Freelander parts if so how do I know which parts equate to which.

I am very gratefull for all of your time and advice please bear with me and keep it simple I want to keep the car running and avoid damaging it, I still do not understand how it has run perfectly for 18 months until yesterday. I most confess I am looking for advice on what to check, or replace and how to achieve that in the US. Just to add to it all I am dealing with American mechanics - who love the car buit a unsure what to do!

Thanks again
Elona.



E J Davies

Many of the MGF specialists ship world wide - including companies like Brown and Gammons, and I am sure Rimmer Bros - so if you don't go for Land Rover equivalent, the parts can be dispatched directly to you :o)

Regarding gasoline grades, I'd go with Dieter's suggestion. As an aside, Mexican/Brazilian MGFs were sold with different specifications pistons - and that may be because of difference in fuel grades?
Rob Bell

I tried to edit the original posting to clarify this, but that didn't work - but in terms of catalyst overheating, this occurs when unburnt fuel or excess Hydrocarbons reach the cat.

Therefore it is a rich running engine that would cause this - or indeed a car that didn't burn fuel due to a misfire, leading to the cat over heat.

Regarding fuel, the MGF was originally designed to run on RON95 fuel - so AKI89 or AKI91 should be fine IMO. No real advantage to run AKI93 I don't think - as this is equivalent to RON98; there is no knock sensor on the K-series engine, so there is no automatic capacity for altering the ignition/fuelling to take advantage of the higher octane rating.
Rob Bell

Rob, makes sense, as usual !
Elona,
I see you have all you need, including the link to this most helpful BBS.

SARRDWBGBAD000858 is a very early car and some more of these Jap. series found the way abroad to other countries in the meantime. We know one on Cayman Islands, just a few numbers younger than yours.
This MGF came off from the assembly line on 11. October 1995 and was export to Japan on 19. December 1995,
Your cars Engine number is 18K4FJ32 999457
Exterior colour code COF / Flame Red

No problem in my opinon to source Land Rover parts for the engine. See above numbers. They almost are amended with ...L or ...LR. Some other are specific numbers though. I added these to my above mentioned EPC (electronic parts catalogue )

Try the above listed ignition p/n with a search in Google
i.e. the plugs with http://www.google.de/search?q=NLP100290

http://www.ukmgparts.com or http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk are UK based companies. You may try also http://www.moss-europe.co.uk or whatever source you find, ... beside of sources in Russia which I would avoid ;)

HTH
Dieter
Dieter

Guys,

We are now beyond a catalytic convertor/fuel problem. Car started no problem ran very well for 10-15 mins then missfired and stuttered finishing off with a back fire and refusal to re-start. Called for tow truck after 20 mins car re started did not attempt to drive again. Is the fault heat related?

Car now looking very sorry for itself in garage at home.

Questions - where should my US mechanics look/check first? Any advice I can give them would be valuable as they are totally unfamiliar with this model as they have never seen one before, but are familiar with older MG models.

I would appreciate any advice as I need to start talking to mechanics tomorrow.

Should I start a new thread?

Thanks again

Elona
E J Davies

It sounds simple electrical; which means check (don't necessarily need to replace) plugs, leads, distributor cap and rotor arm for starters. If I had to pick only one it would be rotor arm failing when it heats up, but all four will narrow down the search.
Good luck with your rare old car.
Charless

It is a very early car - I just noticed that! Just 607th off the line!!! The series started at VIN 251 - the traditional MG VIN start point, after the old factory number (Abingdon 251).

I think you're right Charles. The other thing to look at is the function of the Lambda sensor, not to mention the operation of the crank sensor etc.

Plenty to check out and challenge you, but this need not be too difficult to sort out using simple guile and generic diagnostic equipment where necessary. :o)

Good luck, and let us know what you find out Elona
Rob Bell

Elona,
no need to start new threads. I think most of the available specialists do follow this one.
You said already you have the required manuals.

This for the harness (print what your mechanis asks for)
http://www.mgfcar.de/schedules/index.htm
and the wire color codes, used within the diagrams
http://www.mgfcar.de/schedules/color.htm
some info about the few sensors at the MGF
http://www.mgfcar.de/sensor/index.htm

Another one.
How proven is it that the failure appears to be electrical nature ?
I'd also recommend to looking for a broken and blocked catalytic converter.!

Also for fuel related troubles. The fuel pump connection for example.
Dieter

Guys,

Thanks for all your advice. Luckily I have found a great local garage specialising in European sports cars who (although they have never seen a MGF before !) are going to look at it for me. In fact the guy who will be working on it is also a fellow Brit and is confident that with the aid of the workshop manual and perhaps this site, he will get her back on the road.

Thanks again

Elona
E J Davies

Fingers crossed Elona - and do let us know how you get on. Do you have a copy of the workshop manual? Inevitably, there are electronic versions that can be down loaded (somewhat against copyright) via a well known and popular internet auction site. But a legitimate paper copy can be had from here: http://mgfregister.org/shop/29-mgf-workshop-manual.html
Rob Bell

Rob,
>>I have the MGF owners handbook and the MGF workshop manual.
.. she has ... :o)

Elona,
bookmark this website. http://www.mgf-tf-central.co.uk/
It's about MGF and the later MGTF only and covers documents from long time experienced MGF Enthusiasts as Rob and me and a lot of other fellow guys.

Good luck.
Dieter

All,

Thank you very much for all of your advice. Garage seem to think "simple electrical". Once replacement parts arrive I will let you know the outcome.

I am sure I wil have more questions in the future until then.....


Many thanks again

Elona
E J Davies

Thanks for the update - hopefully you'll be back on the road soon! :o)
Rob Bell

Dear all,

Simple electrics it was car now back on the road after plugs, distro cap, rotor arm, HT leads change. Mechanic tells me that the clutch slave cylinder needs changing soon (minor leak) and the wheel nuts need replacing as very damaged. I have the parts on order from UK.

Are these big jobs? Can the slave cylinder be changed from above or does the car need raising up and be accessed from below?

Slightly confused about the wheel nuts? Is this going be difficult/expensive?

Many thanks again for all of your advice.

Elona
E J Davies

Hi Elona,

MGF in USA! now thats novel.
I do digress slighty, however, It does remind me of a very old Interent Webpage which was dealing about the USA getting MGF's. It made for interesting reading at the time. Here is the link for those interested.
http://www.wedgeparts.com/mgfusa.html

Now to address your questions.

Are these big jobs?
:NO not really.

Can the slave cylinder be changed from above or does the car need raising up and be accessed from below?
:The slave cyclinder can only be changed from above. A fairly easy job, but be careful of sharp corners from local hose clips. (I tape them up when I need to do work on the Slave)

Slightly confused about the wheel nuts? Is this going be difficult/expensive?
: Usually not a difficult job to remove the wheel nuts, but do not use an impact/rattle gun, use only manual tools/sockets etc.
I am only guessing here, but I suspect that the chrome metal covers on the wheel nuts have been damaged and not the actual wheel nuts. Do the covers look rounded and spin on the wheel nuts?
You can upgrade to solid ones or purchase some good used or new ones on UK ebay or online shops.

cheers,
Branko
Branko

Great result Elona :o)

With respect to the questions regarding the work needed, nothing to add to Branko's excellent response!

Branko, thanks for posting that website - I hadn't seen that before! Only 2500 hits - and with a TF in kit forming being sold for $80k perhaps not surprising that this plan didn't get off the ground! Or did it?

Interesting to see how relatively compliant the TF could have proven to US regulations. Probably an awful lot more to it than that of course - but a great read.
Rob Bell

Branko,

Many thanks for the advice. You are 100% correct on wheel nuts/covers have replaced.

Intend sending husband into garage at weekend to change slave cylinder - wish him luck - any top tips?

Elona
E J Davies

Thanks guys, slave cylinder replaced and all well. Before I start new thread on door trim item I cannot find, perhaps you can assist again. The parts I need are described below.

1996 MGF (early one) LH door. Door trim coming away from door panel at the top as the end rubber clip is missing (almost Z shaped black rubber @ 1.5 inches long secured into end of door by a black push in popper)which seems to secure the inner weather strip and pulls it into the glass. I have spoken to Rimmer Bros but they cannot identify these items. I need the rubber clip and the securing popper - does anyone have a part number or correct name for these items?

Elona
E J Davies

Are you able to take a picture of what you need Elona - I might have what you're after...
Rob Bell

Hey Rob,

Thank you very much, have finally managed to download a photo of the part that I need. (assume I will need the fastener as well)

Do you know either the part number or where I can get one of these.

Elona

E J Davies

Elona,
Glad to hear that it all went well with the wheel nuts and the slave cyclinder. Good One.

Re your door trim problem: The rubber end bit does not really hold anything in place. It is there to give a neat finish to the edge of the door.

Are you saying that the actual plastic door trim is pulling away from the door frame at the top?. Behind the top of the door trim, there is a long "L" shaped metal track all along the length that is glued/pop riveted that keeps the top of the door trim attached to the top of the door frame. It acts like a lip. I suspect the door trim had been removed and not place back correctly or the metal track has come aprt from the door trim. You may have to remove the door trim to have a good sticky beak at it and determine what actually needs fixing.

Dieter's site is great for lots of info and you can get part numbers you need.
http://www.mgfcar.de/epc/2.htm

The part you want is a " Finisher-front door waist seal" as shown here (#10) http://www.mgfcar.de/epc/5083.htm

Click on "English Translation" then,
http://www.mgfcar.de/

cheers
Branko
Branko

Hi,

good find :)
EJU100252 is what Elona needs, and additional the stud p/n EYC10052

Wait for Rob. I'm quite sure he has both available as spares from his *project shed cars*.
On the other hand the UK based webshops from Rimmerbros or Brown&&Gammons may be able to ship both.

Rgds
Dieter
Dieter

Unfortunately the door cards have now gone to a new home - but I think that I might possibly have another pair kicking around somewhere - I just need to find them!
Rob Bell

Rob,

Any joy with locating the offending article?

Regards

Elona.
E J Davies

OOOOPPPPS!

Sorry Elona, I forgot to look! I'll search around this evening. To be honest, it's been ages since I last saw these door cards, and I have a nasty feeling that I may have thrown them away when we had some building work (very uncharacteristic of me!)

If I don't have them, I shall try and keep an eye out for them for you. Do you need a pair?
Rob Bell

Rob,

Thanks I am just missing the LHS one.

Regards

Elona
E J Davies

I haven't had much luck finding them, sorry Elona. I think that they must have ended up on the skip! :o(

Hopefully someone else might be able to help? Quite a few cars being broken on the MGF Register Classifieds section which might be worth checking out: http://www.mgfregister.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=9
Rob Bell

Dear All,

Well as expected the Cat has finally started to rattle - remains driveable according to my Brit mechanic. I ordered a replacement from RSJ using a thread from this site. They seemed very knowledgeable as I needed the export model. It has now arrived but appears slightly larger (fatter, wider in girth) than the cat it is replacing, it has the export model fuze apperture etc so I believe it to be correct. Has anyone else any experience of this and can offer any advice on potential fitting problems etc.

As ever many thanks

Elona
E J Davies

This thread was discussed between 26/05/2010 and 10/09/2010

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