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MG MGF Technical - Newly purchased F has water in the oil!

Hi

First day with the F and first post on this board!

Collected the wife's Christmas present today, a 2001 VVC with 37,000 on the clock, all seemed genuine when I crawled all over it last week. No sign of HGF, no water in oil and coollant OK. Drove her home nice and steady (40 miles and 65-70mph with the occasional blast up to 85) no issues!

As the sun was out we decided to put the top down and take her for spin around the lanes. After about 10-15 miles the engine warning light came on (amber), pulled over and read the manual, which stated it was an emissions issue. Nothing else occurred (no loss of power or mis-fire etc), watched the temp gauge constantly and it didn't move from normal. Turned her around and went home. Pulled the dipstick at home and white stuff in the oil (panic!). Also coolant is brownish but no loss of fluid.

Question is has it suffered HGF on the way home (can I be that unlucky!!) or could it be condensation - previous owner was not running it (on SORN).

Also, is the warning light likely to be connected to this or co-incidental.


Chris.
Chris Bond

I'd expect any condensation to have steamed off on the 40 mile run - even at the dampest times of the year the quantities involved are pretty small. A cynic would suggest that fresh oil & coolant might have been part of the 'getting it ready for sale' exercise, however it is possible that the gasket has failed on the first run after a lengthy rest period. Historically there have been so many cases of people buying and almost immediately suffering HGF that a connection can't be ruled out.

The engine warning light may be coincidental; its main trigger is unburnt fuel reaching the catalytic converter, but with no misfire that may not be the cause. An error code would have been logged in the ECU, so hooking it up to the MGR TestBook diagnostics would probably pinpoint why.

Presuming the oil filter would have been changed along with the fresh oil, does it look recent? If not, perhaps give the gasket (or possible unscrupulous seller) the benefit of the doubt and do an oil & filter change. If the white mayo re-appears, you know it's not condensation.
bandit

Thanks Bandit,

Interestingly, a service was carried out only a few weeks ago (should have spotted that!). Will check the filter tomorrow but expect that to be new.

Being a cynic, I'm reckon I've been a victim of getting it ready for sale, particularly as the previous owner does not seem to answering his phone.

It's going into the local MGR service centre for a check over on Tuesday, should I drive it there or get it picked up?

Chris Bond

Short distances should be no problem to drive, but I'd avoid sitting in queues if possible. Having caught the issue early, before it led to overheating, there's a good chance it will be the least cost repair.

Although some components may not be even close to end-of-life yet, I'd still recommend renewing the water pump, both cambelts, tensioner & expansion bottle cap as part of the exercise. That investment will instil confidence that the car is in the best possible shape for the future, and your (plural!) driving enjoyment won't be overshadowed by 'unknowns'.

As for the debate whether the revised MGR gasket or the Land Rover version are the best to fit, that runs and runs... Dave Andrews of DVA Engineering, whose experience with the K Series engine is second to none, favours the revised MGR gasket.
bandit

So the local MGR specialist has checked it over and given me a list of over a grands worth of repairs (just what I needed Pre-Christmas!). Top of the list is HGF, so the PO did a good number on me with the oil & filter change. The HGF element is £780 inc skimming cambelt etc, which seems expensive but he assures me once they have done it, it will not go again (brave man!). He says they use the MGR gasket and not the LR one.

I'd be interested in your thoughts!
Chris Bond

Chris, it does sound like you have been shafted by the PO. I am very sorry if that turns out to be the case - it sort of typifies a large number of arriving and departing F owners in 'modern' Britain. As rude and unexpected as cheating at cricket or farting in church.
There is a possibility that the main dealer may have gone for a bells and whistles solution.
Try this geezer who comes with a massive reputation and will travel the length and breadth of the country to work at your home/place of work or wherever. Some say..... he rides on a silvery charger and is next up on Pope Benedicts list of 'things to do'
http://www.mgroversolutions.com/
It is worth a phone call - good luck.
Charless

I am intrigued by that assurance that it'll never need doing again - perhaps just an effort to sweeten the large bill, or do they have some well-kept secret..? ;o)

Assuming around £200 of the £780 is for parts & the head skim, that's £580 labour - quite a lot IMHO. The guy Charles has suggested may be able to reduce the bill somewhat; when you do pretty much nothing but unbolt cylinder heads all day, you get pretty quick. No disrespect to your MGR specialist, but in a race it wouldn't be them I'd back. If however your specialist is willing to give you a lifetime warranty on the gasket, that's another matter...
bandit

Hi bandit & Charles,

Thanks again for your input.
Went to see the MGR specialist again to discuss his costs (and claims). He stated that his quote was the worst case scenario and would expect it to be cheaper. But once again re-iterated that their experience is second to none and that once it was done I would have no more problems and if I did they would sort it. Claims that they stake their reputation on knowing the solution to the K series HGF issue - and yes they keep it a secret! Cant see me getting it in writing but at least they are unlikely to vanish into thin air - unlike PO!!

Chris.
PS This outfit is not a main dealer but known as the local MGR specialist - bear in mind that around here (south birmingham area) there is a big connection with MGR.
Chris Bond

The oil/water mix type failure is the most likely to not need a head skim, so if they find head flatness to be good and no issue with cylinder liner heights then the bill should reduce by the cost of a skim - £60-80 perhaps.

Having caught the problem early you shouldn't have much oil in the coolant circuit, but perhaps worth enquiring what they'll do to shift any residue - thereby avoiding confusion later when it re-appears in the expansion bottle...

Their 'specialism' will I hope, if asked the question of how many points they'll be bleeding the coolant circuit from, produce the answer '3'. If it doesn't, hmmmm...

Hope all goes well & you're able to do a Christmas day blast, when strangely the roads are much less cluttered than usual ;o)
bandit

Hi bandit,

Didn't get it back for Christmas day but a few days later and road conditions have restricted our trips out.

Head has been skimmed and apparently it is the finish they achieve on the head surface which is their secret trick.They want it back in 1000 miles to check it over.

So far I'm impressed, as spoke to them today due to still seeing signs of water in the oil but they say it is residual stuff and that I should just 'enjoy driving it, as any issues with head gasket is now their problem'.

Can't say fairer than that!

Chris Bond

It's a devil of a job to clear all the old "mayo" from the engine once water contaminates the oil, so their advise is probably spot on! Fingers crossed to future reliable service Chris :o)
Rob Bell

It's almost worth the costs just for that assurance - I'm distinctly envious..!

Roll on spring, MGFs look slightly forlorn with snow on and all around them 8-/
bandit

This thread was discussed between 12/12/2009 and 05/01/2010

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