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MG MGF Technical - No water

Yesterday I noticed that there was not a drop of water in the expansion tank, have since filed it up and driven for 3 miles and has not lost any.

Is this HGF that I hear so much about or could I be lucky and it just be that the corroded pipes or radiator have finally gone.

I go to Brown & Gammons for work but it is a hour long drive so concerned that I could do some damage, but don't like using MGR garages.

Does anyone have any advice please?
T Graveling

Yep, get some AA cover now!

Or more helpfuly you could have any of a huge number of issues, hose clips, inlet manifold gasket, corroded pipes/radiator, HGF.
Check the oil, if water has got in there it is most lightly have come from the water tank (if you have recently given it a long run). Otherwise you might be 'lucky' and have any of the others - see archive.

Will
Will Munns

Heater on Hot and Full. Drive slowly (under 70). If you're really worried get it towed to B&G. Probably an idea if you could locate the source of leak (if rad / coolant pipes / heater connectors) before driving. I'd suggest better not to drive if you think HGF.

Leigh
Leigh

If you're really risk-averse then of course you get the car trailered to a specialist and be 100% safe. However, here's what I'd do now that I have a little experience of leaks and one HGF behind me.

1. Check visually for any leaks - ask yourself when you last checked the water - this will tell you whether you're looking for a big leak or slow one.
Try a) expansion cap area, underfloor pipes, radiator bleed screw, radiator itself, heater pipes, hoses, clips etc. You'll need to remove the engine cover to see some of the major outlet hoses.

2. Check dipstick for mayo and inside of expansion bottle for oil residue - to be sure there is no immediate sign of an HGF.

3. If you have a trusted local garage (doesn't have to be an MGR dealer) and ask for
a) a pressure test of the cooling system plus to try to find the leak
b) a chemical test and/or MOT sniffer test to check for combustion gases in the expansion bottle (HGF)

If you want to check for a leak yourself, then run the engine on idle for 10-15 mins until the rad fan kicks in, constantly looking around with a torch for coolant leaks and keeping an eye on the expansion bottle to make sure you've still got water!

4. If no leaks found and you're confident to DIY it - bleed the system of any air that may have got in due to the expansion bottle emptying.

5. Take a low-rev run to your specilaist stopping every now and again to check the water levels and get the whole system re-checked.

HTH

Dave
Dave

>Take a low-rev run to your specilaist stopping every now and again to check the water levels and get the whole system re-checked.

Check thru the side of the bottle, DO NOT remove the cap when the system is hot or you risk damaging your engine thru local boiling of the coolant.
Will
Will Munns

Good qualification - thanks Will.

Dave
Dave

Good advice there Dave :o)
Rob Bell

Will!

What kind of AA cover are u referring to?

Do you have it?

If so, does it cover HGF and how much was it?
Mark B

I was thinking relay and recovery*, that way if it goes POP then you can get trailered to your desired garage.

Will
*they will trailer you to the nearest garage unless you have recovery
Will Munns

Just been reading about AA cover (£48) per yr, on top of your £40 membership fee.

Covers you for up to £500 worth of repairs, providing you can show receipts of proper servicing.

Mark B

Mark B,

Tim woolcott recently got an AA warranty to contribute to his HGF. He may be along shortly to expand and give you some details.

Dave
Dave

I gather that Tim's car is now back in one piece after all the work. The AA warranty sounds to have paid off big time for Tim - seems to be well worth considering :o)
Rob Bell

I had a read over the AA's terms and conditions today. Sounds like it's primarily for use if your car goes 'pop', rather than being like a warranty that will help pay for problems that you know about. So it won't pay up for a radiator if the old one is shot but 'functional', however they will pay up if it goes 'pop'.

Hopefully Tim can enlighten us further?

Cheers.
Leigh

I have now checked the dipstick as B&G advice, and there is no sign of water. Also the leak is a steady drip almost where the bottle is, I can't see much but it is dripping off the axle on the driver side of engine.

So as it seems it is not a HGF it presumably means that it is the cap or some pipes. B&G did recommend at my 60k service last June that the pipes were corroded, I decided to take the risk, as the whole thing was so expensive at the time.

So would you recommend that I take the trip up to Baldock or can I trust a local garage or MG Rover dealer, there aren’t that many left in north west London. I have read previous threads that bleeding the MGF is quite difficult and if not done properly can cause future HGF.
T Graveling

>>I have now checked the dipstick as B&G advice, and there is no sign of water. Also the leak is a steady drip almost where the bottle is, I can't see much but it is dripping off the axle on the driver side of engine.<<

Unfortunately, a HGF does not necessarily have to present with water in the oil, or oil in the coolant. A number of head gasket failures do so through a failure of the outer beading on the gasket, on the driver's side of the engine, just below the exhaust manifold flange (above the alternator).

See what I mean in this picture: http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/hgf_pages/HGF_images/leaking_HG.JPG (A) - jet of water from failed head gasket, due to protusion of (B) the elastormeric beading.

It is possible to diagnose this yourself. Remove the engine inspection cover (http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/engine_cover.htm), and then start the engine, whilst looking at the right front corner of the engine. If all is okay, you'll see nothing. If, however, the gasket has failed in the way that I've described, then you'll see a thin jet of water peeing out of the engine.

Assuming that the head has not softened (and I doubt it) - the good news is that this is the cheapest type of HGF to put right - no expensive flushes, head replacements or skimming usually required.

More at http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/hgf_pages/HGF.htm
Rob Bell

Rob,

<<a HGF does not necessarily have to present with water in the oil>>

Sounds like doctor speak to me when you use the word 'present' like that.

:¬)

Bruce
Bruce Caldwell

>>Sounds like doctor speak to me when you use the word 'present' like that.<<

LOL, you're right Bruce!
Rob Bell

This thread was discussed between 07/04/2003 and 09/04/2003

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