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MG MGF Technical - Oil cooler Installation on MGF

Hi, IŽm Eduardo from Panama, Republic of Panama.
I have an MGF 2000 and I need someone to tell me how to install a MOCAL Oil Cooler bought at B&G. I will appreciate your help.
Best regards.
Eduardo Miro

Hi Eduardo,

can't help in details with the B&G oil cooler kit installation.

Anyway, it might be useful to get back here with some details about the locations where to install from their instructions.

I.e. is it for front mount, engine bay mount ?

Regards
Dieter
Dieter K.

Eduardo, I presume that you've got an air/oil cooler? In this case, it should be reasonably easy to fit (I am surprised that the kit came without instructions though).

The kit will, more than likely, comprise of three main components: an oil radiator, which you'll need to mount behind the front radiator grille, oil pipes, that need to be run along the length of the car, and an oil filter adaptor plate.
Rob Bell

Techspeed fitted mine - they may be able to offer assistance.
Kingsley

Thanks to everybody for your comments.
I think that RobŽs explanation is very clear. IŽll try to fit it this weekend.
But if I have some problem IŽll come back here to ask for your help...... :o)
Thanks again.
Eduardo.
Eduard Miro

Ed, have fitted one of these and found them a PITA to fit as the hoses are pretty bulky and if you have a/c it makes it a bit more of a PITA. The underfloor pan has to be removed and i found the lengths of the pipes are not perfectly engineered. Too late now i know but a steptronic gearbox cooler pipes and rad are purpose made for this and will fit much better( probably an arm and a leg though) only the rear section would need to be altered to mate up to the adapter which are available from 'Think Automotive' or Demon Twats.
Make sure you get the pipes as tight to the underfloor as they do hang down and could catch speed ramps etc.I would make up some steel pipes for the under floor section rather than the rubber ones, less bulky, less weight. The rad is front mounted of course.
If anyone else is thinking of this then I would suggest the TF160 water/oil cooler as the parts are 'off the shelf'and works more efficiently than the air cooled rad, however the install is a PITA as well.
Good luck.
mike

Mike, a TF160 water/oil cooler is a completly different proposition to a air/oil cooler, the benefits of both are quite differnet, for normal road use water/oil is better as it aids warm up times, but for full on track use and high performance modifications the air/oil coller ultimatly wins as it has a higher cooling capacity.
Also i thought some modification was required to retrofit the TF160 cooler??
Kingsley

"but for full on track use and high performance modifications the air/oil coller ultimatly wins as it has a higher cooling capacity."
This leads to discussion as a "fully modified " car would have dry sump and increased oil pressure so a air cooler is viable but this is still reliant on air speed/road speed to cool the oil, you also have to consider the air pressure across the cooler, a bigger rad will cause air pressure drop needing higher road/air speed and designed ducting. For road or occasional track use ,road/air speed will not be a parameter that would take priority over oil temperature where high ambient temperatures are prevelant unless consideration is given to the cooling capacity of the water system to compensate and for a road car simply using a more efficient radiator may be an easier option. Not many manufacturers supply oil and water flow rates to allow calculations to be made scientifically, therefore it is often trial and error in cooling choices, one eye on the oil temp gauge, one on the water gauge and one on the road.;-) In the case of the F/TF the long route of the oil pipes(i.e. a non dry sumped vehicle) will very likley drop oil pressure and reduce the benefits of fitting an air oil cooler, IMO. A correctly designed water/oil cooler which has a more efficient oil flow through its core and therefore less oil pressure drop, providing the cooling system is up to the job, will work better IMO,the down side is the cost.
"Also i thought some modification was required to retrofit the TF160 cooler?? "
The coil packs require relocating as the cooler is bolted to the back of the block
The big question is why is Ed fitting a cooler in the first place???
mike

I hope that the fitting went well over the weekend Eduard? If you get a chance, we'd love to see some pictures of the completed job, and of your car in Panama! :o)

(The weather here is a bit cold and miserable at the moment!)
Rob Bell

On a related thought what temp do people let their oil get to on track days? I use Mobil 1 but I don't know at what temp it start to degrade.
Steve Ratledge

Steve,

VVCs tend to run very hot on track - mine used to get up into the red (150degrees) area if I pushed hard for 15mins or more. I've since had a TF 160 oil/water cooler retro-fitted and it is now steady at around 120 degrees whatever I do on track :-)

MPis don't tend to suffer anywhere near as bad and seem to stay within the 120 degree level regardless.
Dave Livingstone

>> I don't know at what temp it start to degrade. <<

A surprisingly hard question to answer Steve - as the answer depends on what sort of oil we're talking about. As a rule of thumb (which would apply to Mobil One), never exceed 150C.

Occasional runs up to 120 is probably okay, but beyond that, I'd go for an oil cooler. The TF item is one option, but I'd probably opt for the Mocal Laminova (higher efficiency).
Rob Bell

I tend to find my 1.8i++ runs at 120deg if I push on a bit e.g. constant running at 90-100mph (on a private road obviously). At Bedford last year (hot day) the needle was quickly at 12:00 o'clock about 135 deg and that was with the cabin heater on full blast - deeply unpleasant :-(

150deg is the start of the red zone and I would not be happy running it at that temp.
Steve Ratledge

Various parameters here, as a personal preferance on a F/TF I would like to keep oil around 120deg C using a semi-syn or 130 if using a fully syn.These are only my preferences and not based on any calculations. The advantage of fitting an oil cooler is to be able to use a lower viscosity oil and thus gain more power.
Mike.
mike

Hi everybody, thanks for all comments

<<<< hope that the fitting went well over the weekend Eduard? If you get a chance, we'd love to see some pictures of the completed job, and of your car in Panama! :o)

(The weather here is a bit cold and miserable at the moment!) >>>>

I couldnŽt do that fitting last weekeng, really hope to do in this one. IŽll send you complete pictures of job and from my car too.

The weather here is very warm, weŽre in summer right now.

Best regards
Eduard Miro

Ed , what are your reasons for fitting the cooler???Please.
Mike
mike

Hi Mike:
Here in Panama the normal temp at midday regularly is between 30-35 °C (all year). When I floor the F, the Oil temp comes up very quickly, I had four advices (with a red light) because the oil temp went above 150 C. I had been read some threads in order to avoid loose my F engine, but I think you could recommend me something better...

Eduard Miro

Eduardo, thanks for the reply. With such high ambient temperatures I would fit the oil cooler now you have bought it and also look at a larger racing type radiator, deeper core and made from aluminium. fit an additional cooling fan or if you have a/c fitted then change fan for a better performing one, multi-bladed and controlled with an adjustable rheostat. Look at ducting the air behind the bumper into the rad and seal any gaps around the radiator with a foam strip so forcing air into the matrix. I would also blank off the top air ducts in the bumper.
Good luck.
Mike.
mike

Ducting of the radiator is a very good idea - it's a shame that no-one produces a kit to do this (unless you've got one Mike?)
Rob Bell

Nobody I know goes fast enough to need one ;-))
mike

I'll take that as a 'no' then ;o)
Rob Bell

Hi Dr. Rob
I already Fitted and tested the Oil cooler system. (4 1/2 hrs). Works OK 120 @ 130 (Max)... I Took some pictures of all work. Could you please give me your email to send you the pictures.
Thanks and best regards.
Eduardo.
Eduard Miro

Temperatures in august in Spain are not very different of those raported by Eduardo in Panama, so this summer that warranty goes out and I will starting modifying the car (springs, filter, and still thinking on brake solutions -a complete nightmare for me-), would like to consider the oil radiator.

Could you put the pics of the instalation, and the results on the net?

Tx anyway

Jose
Spinder00

Hi Jose:
Send me your e-mail to miroed@hotmail.com, and IŽll be sending you the pics.
thanks.
Eduard.
Eduard Miro

Hi Eduard,

got the pictures - you've done a great job! I'd like to put this onto the internet, with your permission?

Cheers
Rob Bell

Hi Rob:
Thanks. Will be a pleasure for me that you put the pictures onto internet. Those could help someone else to fit it in the future.
regards
Eduard.
Eduard Miro

Thanks Eduard :o)
Rob Bell

This thread was discussed between 10/02/2005 and 22/02/2005

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